elise break-away behavior
Discussion
Hi all!
I am considering the purchsae of an Elise R. I am sure the owner of the vehicle would not be happy with me caning his car mercilessly for a couple of hours so I am seeking some advice here. What are Elises like close to their limits and how do they respond once those limits are exceeded. Given the short wheel base/mid-engine configuration do they bite or are the break-away characteristics nice and predictable?
Your feed back would be much appreciated.
B
I am considering the purchsae of an Elise R. I am sure the owner of the vehicle would not be happy with me caning his car mercilessly for a couple of hours so I am seeking some advice here. What are Elises like close to their limits and how do they respond once those limits are exceeded. Given the short wheel base/mid-engine configuration do they bite or are the break-away characteristics nice and predictable?
Your feed back would be much appreciated.
B
If the 111R is still fitted with the original front wheels & tyres then these cars are designed to understeer first. You will loose front end grip before the rear. The nature of the second cam coming in at around 6,250 rpm will provide much higher power and if you are not use to it you can loose traction at this point. Most but not all accidents in Elises (S1+S2) tend to be in greasy conditions. Diesel is a problem. Driving styles have to be modified on the road.
On track they are great fun.
On track they are great fun.
lol
If your refering to concerns whilst driving on the road, dont drive to or near the limit? Strange that hey?
I cant understand it tbh, i drive my 111R in edinburgh so wet greasy roads are assured. I've had the back go light a hand ful of time in the year i've had it without intending it to go that way.. and alot of that was due to snow and ice or hitting the second cam on a wetter (than i thought) slip road and definitly wasnt down to high speed dicking around and lifting off.
Drive to the conditions and whatever the weather you'll be fine.
This isnt to say i wont get caught out and ditch it but all these people who complain about it being snappy must be going some or blind to the conditions at the time.
If your refering to concerns whilst driving on the road, dont drive to or near the limit? Strange that hey?
I cant understand it tbh, i drive my 111R in edinburgh so wet greasy roads are assured. I've had the back go light a hand ful of time in the year i've had it without intending it to go that way.. and alot of that was due to snow and ice or hitting the second cam on a wetter (than i thought) slip road and definitly wasnt down to high speed dicking around and lifting off.
Drive to the conditions and whatever the weather you'll be fine.
This isnt to say i wont get caught out and ditch it but all these people who complain about it being snappy must be going some or blind to the conditions at the time.
Edited by CooperS on Thursday 11th November 12:53
In the dry you have to be driving like a mong to get the car out of shape and shouldn't be in a sports car at all, when they do let go they are quite hard to catch before of the short wheel base.
In the wet you do have to drive with respect as with any RWD car with no TC.
They have staggering levels of grip in the dry and have fond memories of a large roundabout near me that can be taken at 65Mph which you wouldn't even comtemplate in a different car.
HTH
In the wet you do have to drive with respect as with any RWD car with no TC.
They have staggering levels of grip in the dry and have fond memories of a large roundabout near me that can be taken at 65Mph which you wouldn't even comtemplate in a different car.
HTH
I always found that mine relayed the message it was breaking away (the few times it did) in plenty of time. But when it goes it goes so you need to rectify it quickly, its not a car for long lazy powerslides.
As others have said treat it with respect, drive within the limits and you should be fine.
As others have said treat it with respect, drive within the limits and you should be fine.
You are right. No seller would like you caning their car on a test drive. This is where the expression "test-pilot" comes from.
Firstly, as has already been stated, you shouldn't be anywhere near the limits of grip on a test drive. Imaging how you would feel if someone else was driving your car and stacked it.
I presume from your concern for the seller, you are possibly referring to a car that is a private sale. If this is the case and you had an accident, would you be prepared to hand over the full asking price, no questions? The owners insurance will probably only cover you third party.
Personally, I wouldn't even view a private sale if I was not already sold on the make, model, spec, colour etc. There is nothing worse than having your time wasted when trying to sell a car. On the test drive I would be primarily looking for faults and trying to determine whether the previous owner looked after it well and if there is any work that the car needs so I can maybe bargain it down a bit. If you want to experience the car near the limits, let the owner drive up to them.
If you have never driven this type of car before, you should try one at a Car Limits day or similar (as someone else has suggested). Then for not much outlay you will get to push hard, not worry about it, and you will also know for sure if it is a car you want to buy. Then you can view other peoples cars knowing what you want.
I usually tell the owner what I want from the test drive and I also tell them how I plan to drive the car on the test. I find it puts them at ease and they don't get any surprises. I also ask them to lead me somewhere so I can use the full range of revs safely and legally, but only in a straight line.
Some brisk(ish) cornering is fine but nothing excessive. Wait until you have handed over your mula before you go mad.
Firstly, as has already been stated, you shouldn't be anywhere near the limits of grip on a test drive. Imaging how you would feel if someone else was driving your car and stacked it.
I presume from your concern for the seller, you are possibly referring to a car that is a private sale. If this is the case and you had an accident, would you be prepared to hand over the full asking price, no questions? The owners insurance will probably only cover you third party.
Personally, I wouldn't even view a private sale if I was not already sold on the make, model, spec, colour etc. There is nothing worse than having your time wasted when trying to sell a car. On the test drive I would be primarily looking for faults and trying to determine whether the previous owner looked after it well and if there is any work that the car needs so I can maybe bargain it down a bit. If you want to experience the car near the limits, let the owner drive up to them.
If you have never driven this type of car before, you should try one at a Car Limits day or similar (as someone else has suggested). Then for not much outlay you will get to push hard, not worry about it, and you will also know for sure if it is a car you want to buy. Then you can view other peoples cars knowing what you want.
I usually tell the owner what I want from the test drive and I also tell them how I plan to drive the car on the test. I find it puts them at ease and they don't get any surprises. I also ask them to lead me somewhere so I can use the full range of revs safely and legally, but only in a straight line.
Some brisk(ish) cornering is fine but nothing excessive. Wait until you have handed over your mula before you go mad.
Find out for yourself,book in a 'Scare Yourself Sensible' day at Hethel on the Lotus test track and drive it like you stole it 
20 min session to find the car(and your)limits for £99,sorted
http://www.lotusdrivingacademy.com/index.php5?page...
20 min session to find the car(and your)limits for £99,sorted
http://www.lotusdrivingacademy.com/index.php5?page...
The key is listening to what the steering is telling you. While the fronts are gripping (not understeering) rear breakaway is very progressive.
Lots of spins happen when people add more throttle etc. whilst understeering which results in a very much quicker breakaway...can happen at surprisingly low speeds in the wet.
Lots of spins happen when people add more throttle etc. whilst understeering which results in a very much quicker breakaway...can happen at surprisingly low speeds in the wet.
Drive like an idiot and the car will treat you like an idiot.
Frankly you should never be near the limits in an Elise on a public road in either the wet or dry. Sure, its easy enough to get the Elise out of shape or spinning in the wet but its normally driver error (although there are the occasional genuine cases of 'deisel';)).
The only place to be playing near the car's limits are on airfield days with the likes of Walshy (Carlimits) who will teach you how to get the car back in shape and how to brake mid corner at speed and keep the car going where you want it to. Then restrict play times to the track.
Nowt wrong with a spirited drive or pressing on but you don't need to be near the Elises limits to enjoy yourself (the sensual experience of the Elise is a delight) and you are going to be pressing on then best to have learnt how to cope in emerency situations which could lead to the car getting out of shape. Safer for you and other road users
Frankly you should never be near the limits in an Elise on a public road in either the wet or dry. Sure, its easy enough to get the Elise out of shape or spinning in the wet but its normally driver error (although there are the occasional genuine cases of 'deisel';)).
The only place to be playing near the car's limits are on airfield days with the likes of Walshy (Carlimits) who will teach you how to get the car back in shape and how to brake mid corner at speed and keep the car going where you want it to. Then restrict play times to the track.
Nowt wrong with a spirited drive or pressing on but you don't need to be near the Elises limits to enjoy yourself (the sensual experience of the Elise is a delight) and you are going to be pressing on then best to have learnt how to cope in emerency situations which could lead to the car getting out of shape. Safer for you and other road users
It was not my intention to give the impression that I drive flat out on public roads. But if I am on a track I like to push my ability and the car's limits. I am not suggesting my ability is up to the task of an Elise's limits; hence my post. I am trying to ascertain if the car is beyond my abilty to drive quickly.
Edited by BTWANGO on Saturday 13th November 03:13
I think the answer is that the car can teach you and you'll become a better driver. Just start off at moderate speeds and listen to what the car is telling you - the Elise is a complete chatterbox! There's been more than the odd post on here and Seloc from newbies wondering why their car isn't the car they thought and their mates seem to be able to outcorner them in Corsas etc. Not much in sttandard road trim can outcorner a well driven Elise - it comes down to learning to drive properly. The Elise won't cover all the ham fisted errors you can get away with in a front-driver. As I said earlier, drive like and idiot and it will treat you as such.
Because of its size you'll find yourself driving defensively (like a motorbike) in traffic (you'd be amazed at how many just don't see an Elise).
If you get one then book an early session with Walshy and you'll be able to play with the car in a very safe environment with nothing to hit (well, there are cones, before Tony joins in
) and for track use join Lotus on Track where you'll get masses of help, advice etc and excellent (and low cost) tuition. (an ex-F1 driver used to be one of their instructors - not sure if he still is).
Learning to drive an Elise fast on track is great fun and takes time to master (some of us never master it but we get quicker!) for mortals.
By all means take the plunge - have a good look at the buyers guides on here and don't be afraid to ask questions either on here or Seloc.
BTW - as you have seen the Lotus community generally doesn't take too well to the idea of using public roads as race tracks - I'm sure you don't so apologies if any misundertanding
Because of its size you'll find yourself driving defensively (like a motorbike) in traffic (you'd be amazed at how many just don't see an Elise).
If you get one then book an early session with Walshy and you'll be able to play with the car in a very safe environment with nothing to hit (well, there are cones, before Tony joins in
) and for track use join Lotus on Track where you'll get masses of help, advice etc and excellent (and low cost) tuition. (an ex-F1 driver used to be one of their instructors - not sure if he still is).Learning to drive an Elise fast on track is great fun and takes time to master (some of us never master it but we get quicker!) for mortals.
By all means take the plunge - have a good look at the buyers guides on here and don't be afraid to ask questions either on here or Seloc.
BTW - as you have seen the Lotus community generally doesn't take too well to the idea of using public roads as race tracks - I'm sure you don't so apologies if any misundertanding
I had exactly the same concerns. I owned an R400 for several years and then got an Elise SC and had no idea how a mid engined car would handle compared to the Caterham. I did a Walshy day at North Weald and I was amazed at how fantastic the Elise is and how far you can push it, how well balanced the car is and how important it is to use gentle inputs. I've done 6,000 ish miles in 5 months inc 3 Ring trips and love every characteristic of the Elise.
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