Elise-based quandry - experienced advice please!

[granville]

Currently looking for something nimble and quite frankly, I completely adore the Elise (and variants thereof).

Call me a luddite but I prefer the aesthetic of the S1 and following good thrapage at Rockingham a while back, am unsure as to whether I'd notice the improvements wrought by the S2.

But, I am completely torn as to the direction I should take.

I don't think I'll be on track much, if at all but I dearly love the awesome, wonderful aggression of the mini-Le Mans scrapper, Exige...

On the other hand, the sheer joy of early morning summer jaunts, al fresco in a little Elise is surely one of life's most rewarding pursuits?

...and if you did have an Elise, which one? I know that power isn't really what the gig's about at all but isn't a Sport 160 a brilliant step up? Is the 190 too much or just poor value next to the standard cars?

Finally, would it be worth shelling out for the new version? I just can't imagine it's worth it and is it illegal round here to mention the VX220 Turbo? What's th general take on this thing - would it be much faster than a 160, say?

[mustard]

S1's and S2 do drive quite differently (S2's being far more 'refined' in Elise terms!)..... whats the budget?

S1's start at around £10k (bottom line for a decent early car) upto £32k for a new fully speced 111R and all prices inbetween

For purity of the 'Elise' experience and for sheer fun a 111S S1 (circa £14-£15k) takes some beating

[gfun]

They will all do a fine job of providing you with a silly grin - the more extreme variants become less practical the more extreme you take it. Test drive a few and follow your heart!

[TheLemming]

IIRC there is a more "extreme" limited run of VX turbos with Exige derived suspension and a few other mods available soon-ish.

They have been talking about this one for a while and there was a small bit in this month's Evo.

You could always have a little chat with Turbo Technics about a supercharged S1 with some other toys

[Andy M]

derestrictor - nip over to www.vx220.org.uk

We're a friendly bunch and should be able to offer you some good advice!

If you don't want to join the forum, at least have a look at: www.vx220.org.uk/gcs_article.php?artid=14

I've just bought a VX220 Turbo - very with it...

[granville]

Thanks for the responses but what about the Exige?

How would the 'feel' differ (on road) next to a 'lise?

[TheLemming]

Ive had a couple of runs in an Exige S1, some of those behond the wheel, some in the passenger seat around the Hethel circuit.

The result is that I would LOVE one, but would rather take a "bitsa" approach to an Elise.

Nothing quite like hooning with the roof off on a sunny day (or a cold day with the back window out )

Elise with Exige front clam, Exige engine and ancialliarys (oil cooler, airbox etc), harnesses, S160 seats etc

The S1 Exige is a bit of an animal. The S2 is perhaps just as fast but a lot more civilised - Evo seem to think its a bit more "S2 Coupe" than a scary track beast.

(Caveat, Havent seen the new Exige in the flesh yet, nor driven one so this is all second hand!)

[mustard]

For me, I'd only consider an Exige if I was seriously into track days, prefer the simple pleasures to be derived from topless Elise motoring.... driving in its purest form!

[granville]

Andy M - thanks for the info.

Mustard - I think you're hitting the nail squarely on the head - Elise motoring is all about minimalism and I miss it badly.

Interestingly, a few years back when I ran one alongside a Cerbera and then my (initially unmodified) 911, it was almost always the Lotus that was wheeled out for a quick Sunday AM recce...

Looking at the Elises for sale on PH, I've seen a couple of 160s for around £15k - not much more than standard cars - sorry to go on about this but isn't that a serious bargain? (There was the odd occasion when a bit more welly might've been nice!)

[mustard]

Looking through the classifieds this would be my star selection

www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=21662&s=12

111S offers circa 150bhp in a more 'road' orienated(sp) from than the Sport 160

[granville]

Interesting, Mustard; I've driven an S2 111S back to back with a standard S2 - does the former have the VVC version of the K engine, putting out 143 bhp (from memory)?

If so, why precisely do you think it's more suitable than the 160?

I don't remember the 111S feeling much different to the regular car but then I'm no G.Kershaw - but when the first S1 160s came out I remember test driving a brand new one (and thus rather tighter than ideal, I guess) and whilst there felt little difference at low-mid range revs, in full flight it was considerably quicker - would I notice something similar with a 111S?

Again, I think the Elise with a bit(!) more power than standard must be something like motoring nirvana.

Cheers, DeR.

[mustard]

derestrictor said:

Interesting, Mustard; I've driven an S2 111S back to back with a standard S2 - does the former have the VVC version of the K engine, putting out 143 bhp (from memory)? Sports Exhaust and Filter and you'll have 150bhp If so, why precisely do you think it's more suitable than the 160? 160 is a 'cammed' up regular 1.8, lumpy idle and more of a pain in traffic I don't remember the 111S feeling much different to the regular car 111S have to be 'stoked up' a bit to feel then benefits Again, I think the Elise with a bit(!) more power than standard must be something like motoring nirvana. Buy a nice 111s wisely and it'll prove a decent investment (as cars go) only around 500 made and always soughtafter

[niallf]

I think the perfect 'road/track' S1 is a hybrid of 111S and Sport 160S features and you can get there from either car.

With the 111s you need to add sports suspension and make the engine 'breath' a little better (sports exhaust 'system' and air filter mods). If you do the latter well, you can realise 160bhp + and improve the torque quite a lot too.

With a Sport 160S, you'll want to add a Close Ratio gearbox, and maybe use a vernier kit to smooth out the engine a little (though that lumpiness adds character).
I specify the Sport 160S variation as the Sport 160 didn't have the LSS suspension.

I went the 111s route five years ago and with a Lotus/Janspeed Sports Exhaust, no cat and a DIY/Homebase modified airbox, I achieved almost identical peak bhp and torque figures to a Sport 160S owned by a good friend, on the same rolling road, on the same day (the only useful comparison). They're almost identical in performance on the track too.

Subsequent to that, I've changed the exhaust to a 4-2-1 manifold. The last Emerald rolling road session I attended my 111s measured a peak of 166bhp with 133lb/ft torque, with a standard car getting 118bhp on the same day. The VVC really responds to being allowed to breath more freely.

Hope this is of some use,

Niall

[granville]

Thanks Niall, superb info...an S1 111S with a few timely selected twiddles here and there, eh?

[apprentice]

derestrictor said:

Interesting, Mustard; I've driven an S2 111S back to back with a standard S2 - does the former have the VVC version of the K engine, putting out 143 bhp (from memory)? Read subsequent responses to this question and feel the need to add a more accurate response The S2 111S did in fact have 156 Hethel horses @ 7000rpm whilst it was in fact its older sibling the S1 111S that had 143bhp @ the same revs. I don't remember the 111S feeling much different to the regular car but then I'm no G.Kershaw - but when the first S1 160s came out I remember test driving a brand new one (and thus rather tighter than ideal, I guess) and whilst there felt little difference at low-mid range revs, in full flight it was considerably quicker - would I notice something similar with a 111S? Here's the comparison on lap times around the Hethel track: S1 111S 1min 39.64 secs Sport 160 1min 38.12 secs ...and here are the maximum torque figs: S1 111S 174Nm @ 4500rpm Sport 160 178Nm @ 5500rpm In essence the Sport 160 (NB factory standard WVTA were 150PS without air intake and sports exhaust mod)relies on a more traditional Lotus route to high power, resulting in a typical "peaky" power delivery which necessitates the driver utilising the full use of the engines upper rev range. Whereas the VVC unit in the 111S acheives outstanding torque figures at lower engine speeds. Its fair to say that the true benefits of the engineering that goes into a Sport 160 may only truly be appreciated on a race track. Further addendum....a properly set-up Sport 160 need not be such a pain around town as suggested. A Sport 160S has been mentioned - as being a good package with LSS as standard - it is important to note that after VIN No 1645 the LSS became an optional extra on S spec. Deristrictor...I note from your profile and your previous comments that your Elise was standard but you would have liked a bit more welly... I would then side with Mustard in recommending a S1 111S as being the probable solution to the minimalist motoring nirvana you seek! apprentice

>> Edited by apprentice on Saturday 10th April 17:50

[DanH]

190s are nice but rare as hell. You say you won't do many track days - are you sure? Its where the Elise shines. .

The comments of 111S vs 160S are pretty valid, although both cars would need some fettling to unlock their ultimate potential. Whilst the 160S does come with LSS, LSS is pretty shite

Other option is the S1 with Honda engine. Pick up a 10k Elise, spend 10k on getting the upgrade and keep up with GT2s on track Bit of a nutter option I admit but its what an Elise should have been. I drove the Maidstone sports car conversion on Sat at Bedford, and it was brilliant. Was great fun being driven around by Walshy who was harrying a GT2 and could have passed if the GT2 had swallowed its pride a tad. That was with the upper 2000rpm of the Honda forbidden too because of noise and crappy geo. It is a conversion though, so clearly a little more out there.

[granville]

apprentice said:

I would then side with Mustard in recommending a S1 111S as being the probable solution to the minimalist motoring nirvana you seek!

Much appreciated thoughts, Peter - I shall certainly bear this in mind (although on an ephemeral note, I find the Sport 160 alloys quite irresistable, whatever the car spec to be).

You mention the both the S1 & S2 111Ss...is it worth having the S2 version and why?

I'm all ,

DeR.

>> Edited by derestrictor on Monday 12th April 16:48

[mustard]

derestrictor said:

apprentice said: I would then side with Mustard in recommending a S1 111S as being the probable solution to the minimalist motoring nirvana you seek! Much appreciated thoughts, Peter - I shall certainly bear this in mind (although on an ephemeral note, I find the Sport 160 alloys quite irresistable, whatever the car spec to be). You mention the both the S1 & S2 111Ss...is it worth having the S2 version and why? I'm all , DeR. >> Edited by derestrictor on Monday 12th April 16:48

As a day to day car, the S2 is preferable as it is more refined an generally easier to live with (but having an M5 & a 993 Turbo dont think thats really an issue is it? ) simplar roof arrangment, better door access, more forgiving ride etc.

For your 'pure' driving pleasure to complement your existing stable i'd side with an S1, 111S S1 was the 1st elise I ever drove an must confess to having a soft spot for them, it totally blow me away (covered about 400miles in a weekend just for the hell of it!)

[aromaT]

personally, hainv driven, worked on and generally lived elises for a few years I'd go with a standard S1 (and do the mods) or a lighlty modded S1.

VVCs are a bit less user friendly and can be expensive.

A dream elise for road and track would be:

S1.
Sports exhaust and janspeed 421 manifold
Nitron suspension
Hurricane induction and 160 throttle body
160 wheels and Yoko advan neova tyres
Ported and flowed head with Piper BP270 (or 285s if you want a bit more) cams well set up (with verniers) with an emerald ECU

yum, yum, yum. Road or track.

[Plotloss]

You'd be left in the cold with a standard S2.

111S is the entry level in my mind for a man of your calibre. Try the VXT, I loved it, its got the right amount of power for a chassis that good.

New Exige is glorious looking I have to say...