Option’s left to us whilst Lotus work on their master plan
Discussion
Well Lotus have been talking about the new model line up now for some time and it seems that the time has finally come where the Elise R\SC/Europa/Exige and 2 11 will be dropped from the range (Unless they build the Exige\2 11 V6) until realistically 2014, the only option’s available at the moment and the foreseeable future are Evora/S Elise S so what are we all going to do? I personally am seriously considering upgrading my R
1. Lotus Factory Supercharger 220 BHP
2. New Interior
3. Wheel’s, breaks, suspension
4. Some sort of Aero changes
Not much really in Four years, I’ll do a bit each few month’s to keep me interested till the Elan is released
Boggy
Boggy said:
Well Lotus have been talking about the new model line up now for some time and it seems that the time has finally come where the Elise R\SC/Europa/Exige and 2 11 will be dropped from the range (Unless they build the Exige\2 11 V6) until realistically 2014, the only option’s available at the moment and the foreseeable future are Evora/S Elise S so what are we all going to do? I personally am seriously considering upgrading my R
1. Lotus Factory Supercharger 220 BHP
2. New Interior
3. Wheel’s, breaks, suspension
4. Some sort of Aero changes
Not much really in Four years, I’ll do a bit each few month’s to keep me interested till the Elan is released
Boggy
Or just purchase a SC?1. Lotus Factory Supercharger 220 BHP
2. New Interior
3. Wheel’s, breaks, suspension
4. Some sort of Aero changes
Not much really in Four years, I’ll do a bit each few month’s to keep me interested till the Elan is released
Boggy
otolith said:
Boggy said:
They haven’t, the Elise has got to change or else Lotus are dead in the water
They have - the current Elise will not be directly replaced, the new Elise is aimed at a different market.
king muppets. Bankrupt in 5-10 years if they continue their strategy.
zebra said:
Two options for me; keep the Exige S and add an Atom 300 or sell up the Lotus and buy a Gallardo.
edited to correct early morning spelling issues
I popped into my local Lambo dealer with my Exige (only desirable 'upgrade' path at present), the sales chap immediately pointed me at his Balboni sitting on the dealership floor and yes, it felt a million dollars. But whilst Lamborghini refuse to offer manual gearboxes, they will not get my business (I can't afford one comfortably now, so it's pie in the sky at the moment, but let's say…) - the sales chap said that the number of Lambo customers like me (i.e. driving enthusiasts) was sadly low, and I'd really need to buy the robot auto for resale value even if I *could* find a used manual for sale.edited to correct early morning spelling issues
Edited by zebra on Friday 8th October 07:31
Not sure whether this all rings true in the Lambo market but it doesn't 'feel' right. I don't want a Playstation, and don't give a damn about Formula 1, so I'm bloody glad that Lotus built my Exige so well when they did, as I'm probably going to hang onto it for a long time. Yes it's heavy compared to past Lotuses, but it also feels like it'll last 10 years without feeling like a tired kit car after said 10 years. It'll probably have a different engine by then though
otolith said:
Boggy said:
They haven’t, the Elise has got to change or else Lotus are dead in the water
They have - the current Elise will not be directly replaced, the new Elise is aimed at a different market.Boggy
R-Racer said:
Boggy said:
Well Lotus have been talking about the new model line up now for some time and it seems that the time has finally come where the Elise R\SC/Europa/Exige and 2 11 will be dropped from the range (Unless they build the Exige\2 11 V6) until realistically 2014, the only option’s available at the moment and the foreseeable future are Evora/S Elise S so what are we all going to do? I personally am seriously considering upgrading my R
1. Lotus Factory Supercharger 220 BHP
2. New Interior
3. Wheel’s, breaks, suspension
4. Some sort of Aero changes
Not much really in Four years, I’ll do a bit each few month’s to keep me interested till the Elan is released
Boggy
Or just purchase a SC?1. Lotus Factory Supercharger 220 BHP
2. New Interior
3. Wheel’s, breaks, suspension
4. Some sort of Aero changes
Not much really in Four years, I’ll do a bit each few month’s to keep me interested till the Elan is released
Boggy
Boggy
In 10 years time trackdays will be banned (or at least made so expensive that only those wealthy enough to keep a car especially for the track only, trailered and garaged, can play) or at least any car that'd be fun on track is made illegal on road. Driver 'aids' will be mandatory, speed limiters, automatic braking, lane warnings, GPS tracking your every move, etc.
It was going to be 5 years but we got those Labours out who wanted this control much quicker. The current mob seem much more civil-liberties minded, and they've got the parlous economy on their plate right now.
And that, at the end of the day, may do Lotus in more than its product plan or its hold on its own little niche in the market it's carved out. The US yield curve isn't looking pretty and if the Americans seek to offload their poor debt by devaluing the dollar then Lotus' biggest export market, the USA, suddenly becomes *very* expensive to sell into.
Perhaps that's why Lotus look like they're desperately trying to claw themselves into the Lambo, Ferrari etc. price bracket - because that's *exactly* how much their cars will cost relative to the competition if the USA competitively devalues (sorry for financial markets jargon but I know most of you here know exactly what I'm talking about) either through QE2 inflation or 'any excuse' currency 'war' with China (the Chinese will end up shouldering some of USA's profligacy in the end, I'd have thought, without coming to blows).
If our current government hold together (for me they're pretty much the best of all worlds right now, I guess for some they're the worst of both worlds and thus there's a chance of the coalition falling apart) then the civil-liberties approach may help us continue the status quo (which is *still* unacceptable in my view) regarding freedom to enjoy driving self-controlled cars on our roads and private circuits, but the NIMBYs continue to attack the circuits (it's difficult since a lot of the demand is from the densely populated wealthy south east, and you need room for a decent circuit, and people *continue* to move into homes near circuits that have been there longer than their ancestry and *then* attempt to shut the place down (qua Combe) which I utterly despise) and the control-freak legislation is ultimately coming from Europe, so unelected and pretty much unaccountable.
The important thing right now isn't actually Lotus - it's the smaller SVA-type builders, because AFAIK this is unique in Europe. Most Euro countries don't allow engine swaps or chassis rebuilds AFAIK (Phil - Swiss rules are extreme aren't they? But then again so is the Valaisanne driving which I'm familiar with, ha ha). The mass manufacturers are still a ripe hotbed of nicely engineered components for British small sports car manufacturers to rearrange into *fun to drive* cars. But how long before manual gearboxes are hard to find? How long before you can't get a transmission that's not homologated *without* electronics to control slip and wheelspin?
Lotus have one hell of an uphill struggle because of the USA market and the economy, not because of their lineup and the fact that they've alienated a few of their UK hardcore fans. However with the political push for electric cars, and the fact that they simply don't work with current battery technology (too heavy) - Lotus actually may be in one of the better positions to capitalise by using their low-weight approach to enable fat, overweight hybrid / battery drivetrains to slim down to sports-car territory (the Tesla showed how damn hard it is). Then again, there's no replacement for sheer billions of dollars of R&D and Lotus don't have those resources. And I don't see the Evora (for example) as having 'light weight' as one of its primary characteristics - I get in an Evora and think 'Boxster quality, Lotus design, lovely car, bet it handles sweetly' (no, Lipscomb haven't given me a test drive yet PARKY!!!!!!!
) - I *don't* think 'ooh light - bet this shifts'. It's around 1400 kg isn't it? Which is Porsche weight, isn't it? I'm not knocking the Evora - for the right money and with a supercharger I'd buy one, definitely. It'd have a second hand GT3 standing raising its eyebrow next to it, so it'd have to be fking fast but I *do* like the Evora.
My master plan is to keep the Exige I have, which may be the last of the breed at the end of the day. The Lotus 'master plan' is ambitious and relies too much on delivering what look like 'mission impossible' projects. And whilst I'm in the business of delivering 'mission impossible' projects, car building is NOT my business and most car building projects, historically, end in failure. Right now, with the global economy the way it is, and where most of Lotus' revenues come from… I'm not sure the 'master plan' is anything more than a programme team's Powerpoint fantasy. Apologies for being cynical, but I want to see supercharged Evora lightweights (or not-so-lightweight 911 Turbo competitor-type things) actually being SOLD first. If Lotus can sell good numbers of a fast Evora for a year then we'll see. If they stop selling Elises and Exiges, and sell double-digits Evoras, then I don't see who is going to invest.
And I'm not a Lotus knocker - don't take it like this. I'm even more happy I've got the car I have, but I would consider a supercharged Evora (but they'll probably be £80k so forget it) and would LOVE to see them get a middle-market car with Lotus credibility, if only to give them the money to develop the extreme stuff for us. A bit like the Cayenne - I, along with most Porschephiles, hated the idea of Porsche making light trucks. But the USA revenue from the Cayenne made Porsche profitable enough to be able to make *proper* 911s. Sometimes you need the bland mass market product to finance your real desirable stuff….
It was going to be 5 years but we got those Labour
s out who wanted this control much quicker. The current mob seem much more civil-liberties minded, and they've got the parlous economy on their plate right now.And that, at the end of the day, may do Lotus in more than its product plan or its hold on its own little niche in the market it's carved out. The US yield curve isn't looking pretty and if the Americans seek to offload their poor debt by devaluing the dollar then Lotus' biggest export market, the USA, suddenly becomes *very* expensive to sell into.
Perhaps that's why Lotus look like they're desperately trying to claw themselves into the Lambo, Ferrari etc. price bracket - because that's *exactly* how much their cars will cost relative to the competition if the USA competitively devalues (sorry for financial markets jargon but I know most of you here know exactly what I'm talking about) either through QE2 inflation or 'any excuse' currency 'war' with China (the Chinese will end up shouldering some of USA's profligacy in the end, I'd have thought, without coming to blows).
If our current government hold together (for me they're pretty much the best of all worlds right now, I guess for some they're the worst of both worlds and thus there's a chance of the coalition falling apart) then the civil-liberties approach may help us continue the status quo (which is *still* unacceptable in my view) regarding freedom to enjoy driving self-controlled cars on our roads and private circuits, but the NIMBYs continue to attack the circuits (it's difficult since a lot of the demand is from the densely populated wealthy south east, and you need room for a decent circuit, and people *continue* to move into homes near circuits that have been there longer than their ancestry and *then* attempt to shut the place down (qua Combe) which I utterly despise) and the control-freak legislation is ultimately coming from Europe, so unelected and pretty much unaccountable.
The important thing right now isn't actually Lotus - it's the smaller SVA-type builders, because AFAIK this is unique in Europe. Most Euro countries don't allow engine swaps or chassis rebuilds AFAIK (Phil - Swiss rules are extreme aren't they? But then again so is the Valaisanne driving which I'm familiar with, ha ha). The mass manufacturers are still a ripe hotbed of nicely engineered components for British small sports car manufacturers to rearrange into *fun to drive* cars. But how long before manual gearboxes are hard to find? How long before you can't get a transmission that's not homologated *without* electronics to control slip and wheelspin?
Lotus have one hell of an uphill struggle because of the USA market and the economy, not because of their lineup and the fact that they've alienated a few of their UK hardcore fans. However with the political push for electric cars, and the fact that they simply don't work with current battery technology (too heavy) - Lotus actually may be in one of the better positions to capitalise by using their low-weight approach to enable fat, overweight hybrid / battery drivetrains to slim down to sports-car territory (the Tesla showed how damn hard it is). Then again, there's no replacement for sheer billions of dollars of R&D and Lotus don't have those resources. And I don't see the Evora (for example) as having 'light weight' as one of its primary characteristics - I get in an Evora and think 'Boxster quality, Lotus design, lovely car, bet it handles sweetly' (no, Lipscomb haven't given me a test drive yet PARKY!!!!!!!
) - I *don't* think 'ooh light - bet this shifts'. It's around 1400 kg isn't it? Which is Porsche weight, isn't it? I'm not knocking the Evora - for the right money and with a supercharger I'd buy one, definitely. It'd have a second hand GT3 standing raising its eyebrow next to it, so it'd have to be fking fast but I *do* like the Evora.My master plan is to keep the Exige I have, which may be the last of the breed at the end of the day. The Lotus 'master plan' is ambitious and relies too much on delivering what look like 'mission impossible' projects. And whilst I'm in the business of delivering 'mission impossible' projects, car building is NOT my business and most car building projects, historically, end in failure. Right now, with the global economy the way it is, and where most of Lotus' revenues come from… I'm not sure the 'master plan' is anything more than a programme team's Powerpoint fantasy. Apologies for being cynical, but I want to see supercharged Evora lightweights (or not-so-lightweight 911 Turbo competitor-type things) actually being SOLD first. If Lotus can sell good numbers of a fast Evora for a year then we'll see. If they stop selling Elises and Exiges, and sell double-digits Evoras, then I don't see who is going to invest.
And I'm not a Lotus knocker - don't take it like this. I'm even more happy I've got the car I have, but I would consider a supercharged Evora (but they'll probably be £80k so forget it) and would LOVE to see them get a middle-market car with Lotus credibility, if only to give them the money to develop the extreme stuff for us. A bit like the Cayenne - I, along with most Porschephiles, hated the idea of Porsche making light trucks. But the USA revenue from the Cayenne made Porsche profitable enough to be able to make *proper* 911s. Sometimes you need the bland mass market product to finance your real desirable stuff….
CooperS said:
How much is the factory supercharger upgrade I cant see any results popping up in google?
Cost is around £4,100.00 fully fitted at the main dealers. http://www.lipscomb.co.uk/lotus/aftersales/view/42...
You can buy a Katanna from Essex/Sinclairs for around £4,800.00 fully fitted with around 25-30 hp more.
JACK6284 said:
CooperS said:
How much is the factory supercharger upgrade I cant see any results popping up in google?
Cost is around £4,100.00 fully fitted at the main dealers. http://www.lipscomb.co.uk/lotus/aftersales/view/42...
You can buy a Katanna from Essex/Sinclairs for around £4,800.00 fully fitted with around 25-30 hp more.
Boggy
Boggy said:
JACK6284 said:
CooperS said:
How much is the factory supercharger upgrade I cant see any results popping up in google?
Cost is around £4,100.00 fully fitted at the main dealers. http://www.lipscomb.co.uk/lotus/aftersales/view/42...
You can buy a Katanna from Essex/Sinclairs for around £4,800.00 fully fitted with around 25-30 hp more.
Boggy
Edited by JACK6284 on Friday 8th October 10:37
Until Lotus took this change in direction, I would have said that with green pressures and ever tighter speed enforcement it was likely that the only way we will be allowed to get our motoring kicks in the medium term will be small, modestly powered but very lightweight cars, and that they would be cars which put driving pleasure ahead of raw speed. Cars more like the S1 Elise than the later S2s. Cars which take the feeble powertrains we are inevitably going to be railroaded into and make them fun by putting them into lighter and more communicative cars. Nobody would have been better placed than Lotus to do that, but it seems they see a different future.
In terms of other options in the meantime, it depends. I think that if you are tempted by the new Elise there are plenty of other options to keep you going until it is launched. You can get an entry level 250bhp/1335kg Boxster for 36k. The Volkswagen BlueSport and possibly a sub-Boxster Porsche and Audi R4 based on the same platform ought to come to market before the next Elise does, priced at less than 35k. Those are likely to be 1200kg cars, so not really the same niche as the old Elise but pretty close to the kind of car the new one aims to be. There should also be a new MX-5 out by then - not a direct competitor, it will be a lot slower than the new Elise, but should be around 100kg lighter.
If the new Elise isn't the kind of car you fancy, you're kind of out of luck - it's really a kit car with a vestigial roof or nothing. Just have to hope someone else will launch something to fill the gap - I think the "why not just buy an Elise" issue has been a high bar to entry for other manufacturers, so maybe that will happen.
In terms of other options in the meantime, it depends. I think that if you are tempted by the new Elise there are plenty of other options to keep you going until it is launched. You can get an entry level 250bhp/1335kg Boxster for 36k. The Volkswagen BlueSport and possibly a sub-Boxster Porsche and Audi R4 based on the same platform ought to come to market before the next Elise does, priced at less than 35k. Those are likely to be 1200kg cars, so not really the same niche as the old Elise but pretty close to the kind of car the new one aims to be. There should also be a new MX-5 out by then - not a direct competitor, it will be a lot slower than the new Elise, but should be around 100kg lighter.
If the new Elise isn't the kind of car you fancy, you're kind of out of luck - it's really a kit car with a vestigial roof or nothing. Just have to hope someone else will launch something to fill the gap - I think the "why not just buy an Elise" issue has been a high bar to entry for other manufacturers, so maybe that will happen.
JACK6284 said:
Boggy said:
JACK6284 said:
CooperS said:
How much is the factory supercharger upgrade I cant see any results popping up in google?
Cost is around £4,100.00 fully fitted at the main dealers. http://www.lipscomb.co.uk/lotus/aftersales/view/42...
You can buy a Katanna from Essex/Sinclairs for around £4,800.00 fully fitted with around 25-30 hp more.
Boggy
Edited by JACK6284 on Friday 8th October 10:37
Boggy
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