200 horsepower 7 Dilemma?

[surrey7er]

Gents, I currently have a 200 horsepower 7, which is pretty nippy as you can imagine... I have started to think about its replacement (it'll be a long decision process no doubt!!)

so, I have been thinking about what I want...

I have to say, I don't enjoy driving the 7 on motorways or on wet roads. Maybe i'm getting soft in my old age?
I still want the replacement to be accomplished on a track but I want more road usability and 'comfort' - obviously a relative term. A roof and windscreen would suffice!

Does the honda'd elise fit the bill best or do you have a better suggestion? I have been having a squint at the new Ginetta g40 and also I like the look of the Murtaya...

Over to you please Gents?

[Scuffers]

your in an Elise forum, of course we are going to tell you an Elise is the answer!

that aside, I would suggest a (decent spec) Honda Elise will do it for you, but as with most things, you need to try some.

thing to remember, although the Elise can be faster etc, it's never going to be as nimble as the 7, and being mid-engined is a completely different drive.

[Herman Toothrot]

If you want to keep the front engined rear drive then the G40 maybe more suitable, also being a proper coupe with boot that'll fit golf clubs it maybe more practical.

[surrey7er]

Firstly, thanks to whoever sorted out the title... fat fingers and an Iphone dont make a good combo!

Cheers for replies... I kinda guessed the Elise boys would give it the thumbs up!

Re the G40, they are utterly fabulous. I have no need of golf clubs, but they are a super little car. My only concern is that they are going to be around the 800-850 kg mark in road trim, and so far, only the 1.8 litre zetec with 150hp is planned. My fear is that while this will be ample for road use, it will feel a little flat on track compared to my 525 kg, 200-odd horsepower Caterham...

Hence the Honda'd Elise thought really... as they can be S'charged to 300-odd, giving a PWR akin to my 7.

Are they road-civilised though? I cant see any reason why they wouldnt be, but wanted to gauge a few opinions...

[Scuffers]

surrey7er said:

Firstly, thanks to whoever sorted out the title... fat fingers and an Iphone dont make a good combo!

Cheers for replies... I kinda guessed the Elise boys would give it the thumbs up!

Re the G40, they are utterly fabulous. I have no need of golf clubs, but they are a super little car. My only concern is that they are going to be around the 800-850 kg mark in road trim, and so far, only the 1.8 litre zetec with 150hp is planned. My fear is that while this will be ample for road use, it will feel a little flat on track compared to my 525 kg, 200-odd horsepower Caterham...

Hence the Honda'd Elise thought really... as they can be S'charged to 300-odd, giving a PWR akin to my 7.

Are they road-civilised though? I cant see any reason why they wouldnt be, but wanted to gauge a few opinions...

well, they can be, no problem, but like with most things there are good and bad ones.

at this kind of level you need to drive a few in different conditions to get your head round them, words are meaningless in this context.

A decent spec SC Honda car on a track day will just about murder anything your likely to meet, ( for example) and can still be (relatively) civilised to drive on the road home again, but like I said, you need to try a few, some are a lot better than others.

Maidstone Sports Cars and Brooke Kensington have demo cars, worth the effort to try one and see if it's what your looking for.

[surrey7er]

Scuffers said:

like with most things there are good and bad ones.

some are a lot better than others.

In a nutshell (if that's possible!) what separates the good from bad? is it drivetrain or more chassis-related?

[Scuffers]

surrey7er said:

Scuffers said:

like with most things there are good and bad ones.

some are a lot better than others.

In a nutshell (if that's possible!) what separates the good from bad? is it drivetrain or more chassis-related?

neither, it's down to what parts were used and who did the work, ie. build quality.

(that said, if you start with a complete shed of a car, no amount of putting a Honda engine in it is going to change the fact it's a shed).

Edited by Scuffers on Monday 4th October 20:40

[Dift]

Quality of parts used to complete the conversion (driveshafts, mounts, manifolds etc)/mapping are common problems on the "bad cars".

If your in Surrey your more than welcome to come and have a look round my na Honda, which has everything bar the SC, I'm just down the road.

[surrey7er]

Very kind of you! Work is impossible at the moment, but when time frees up I may well take you up on that!

[Dift]

Not a problem. I'm totally smitten by the Honda, its hugely versatile, can be driven in 6th from 30mph, or reved properly.

[Crazy Eddie]

This sounds like a similar discusion I had a couple of years back and went for the Murtaya you mentioned in your first post.
Reasons being:
Scooby reliability and 4WD making it awesome on the track in the wet especially
Relatively Practical with hard top and large (in this class) boot
Tuning options so that you can add as you go (mine currently circa 400BHP)
Something a bit different, nobody knows what it is (I quite like that)

Quirks:
Not the easiest to get in and out of with roof on (having said that at 6ft1in I have similar issues with a VX220 or Elise)
Not 100% water tight - mods that the current owners of Murtaya are addressing.
They are at the Exeter Kit Car Show this coming weekend if you want to have a look and meet the lads

[Scuffers]

just looked at the Murtaya website...

with respect, some of the quote are a bit optimistic to put it mildly....

for example:

Murtaya said:

...is light, despite the fact that it is AWD and a convertible (weighing in at about the same as a 2000lb Lotus Elise--and that's in road trim).

with respect, yea right...., current Elise, heavy as it is it's not that heavy

Murtaya said:

...has a stiff body (stiffer than even an Elise) despite being a convertible.

Like to see how they have come to this conclusion? unless they really do mean bodyshell, not chassis?

[kambites]

907kg sounds about right for a typical 111R with full fluids, doesn't it?

[Scuffers]

kambites said:

907kg sounds about right for a typical 111R with full fluids, doesn't it?

Lotus quote 860Kg's for the 111R (US version is more)
granted this is still some 160Kg's more than the original S1

[kambites]

Scuffers said:

kambites said:

907kg sounds about right for a typical 111R with full fluids, doesn't it?

Lotus quote 860Kg's for the 111R (US version is more)
granted this is still some 160Kg's more than the original S1

I thought they'd switched to quoting dry recently? Maybe I made that up, though.

Besides, stick air conditioning in a 860kg car and I'd imagine you're getting pretty close to 900kg?

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 19th October 20:29

[Scuffers]

kambites said:

Scuffers said:

kambites said:

907kg sounds about right for a typical 111R with full fluids, doesn't it?

Lotus quote 860Kg's for the 111R (US version is more)
granted this is still some 160Kg's more than the original S1

I thought they'd switched to quoting dry recently? Maybe I made that up, though.

Besides, stick air conditioning in a 860kg car and I'd imagine you're getting pretty close to 900kg?

maybe so, but the comparison is with the Murtaya also AC less....

[kambites]

Scuffers said:

maybe so, but the comparison is with the Murtaya also AC less....

Probably true, but that's never stopped manufacturers making such flawed comparisons in the past.

[danwebster]

I've got a 700 kilo 200hp elise up for sale in the classifieds, its pretty hard core and probably closer in carachter to your 7. You're welcome to try it out if it helps you make a decision.

Cheers,
Dan

[Pum]

surrey7er said:

Gents, I currently have a 200 horsepower 7, which is pretty nippy as you can imagine... I have started to think about its replacement (it'll be a long decision process no doubt!!)

so, I have been thinking about what I want...

I have to say, I don't enjoy driving the 7 on motorways or on wet roads. Maybe i'm getting soft in my old age?
I still want the replacement to be accomplished on a track but I want more road usability and 'comfort' - obviously a relative term. A roof and windscreen would suffice!

Does the honda'd elise fit the bill best or do you have a better suggestion? I have been having a squint at the new Ginetta g40 and also I like the look of the Murtaya...

Are they road-civilised though? I cant see any reason why they wouldnt be, but wanted to gauge a few opinions...

I'd reckon a Honda Elise is very likely to fit the bill. I have an SC Honda Elise S2, which is very stripped out for track. So no stereo or sound-proofing, hard suspension, etc. Only change I've had to make was to move the fuel pump from the passenger bulkhead to reduce the resonant noise transmitted into the passenger compartment. I find perfectly OK driving on the motorway. In heavy rain on A048 trackday tyres on motorway it was rather stressful, but with sensible wet tyres I'm sure it would have been fine. Thrashing around the track it gives all the excitment I want, yet due to the wide power/torque band of the Honda K20, plus the supercharger, I can tootle along at low revs in a high gear on a Sunday afternoon in the country in complete ease, without hardly ever having to change gear.

At the other extreme you could get a Honda Elise with all the creature comforts, or anything in between. You're welcome to see mine and come for a ride if you can get to Harrow when I'm free, or meet up at a trackday.

I don't know anything about Ginettas, but an alternative that does occur to me is the TVR T350, or possibly another Tuscan derivative. I've ridden around the track in a couple of T350s and found them surprisingly good, in terms of handling, braking and performance. Personally, I like the styling, and the coupe/hatchback provides reasonable practicalities. Leather interior, etc provides a more luxury sports car feel, if you fancy that. Make sure you get one with a properly sorted engine. Something I'll consider when I can't get in the Elise any more

[Crazy Eddie]

My Murtaya comes in at 1048kgs (sorry clueless with lbs ) with the heavier 6 speed box and full of fuel so I would say a touch under the 1000kgs is realistic wet weight. Unless they have made some changes or mine could be a bit heavier because it is the Carbon Fibre reinforced monocoque?
Never been in the Honda elise but from what I have seen on the track (when I had the Westie Fireblade) they were very handy.
Only had one track day in Murtaya so not in a position to comment too much but to be fair I would just go and drive as many varients as you can becuase, to be honest, that is my favourite part of car buying and it is the only way for you to choose which car is right for you.
All we can do is give you the ideas, and most of us are biased
happy hunting - let us know your comparisons though always great to hear opionions back to back