Advice on buying an Exige, moving from Caterham.
Discussion
Hi all,
Due to health reasons I have been advised to keep out of the midday sun due to increased risk of melanoma, this means no more red faces from driving a Caterham down to Sarthe.
I need something with a roof so an Exige looks a good choice, which model should I be looking at? I would like a high output one with AC and touring pack.
I see that there have been upgrades and face lifts over time and would appreciate a pointer in the right direction, I have 30K approx to "waste" wife's description not mine.
Thanks Tom Ward
Due to health reasons I have been advised to keep out of the midday sun due to increased risk of melanoma, this means no more red faces from driving a Caterham down to Sarthe.
I need something with a roof so an Exige looks a good choice, which model should I be looking at? I would like a high output one with AC and touring pack.
I see that there have been upgrades and face lifts over time and would appreciate a pointer in the right direction, I have 30K approx to "waste" wife's description not mine.
Thanks Tom Ward
Hi Tom,
I have not driven a Caterham so can't comment on a 'real' comparision between those and an Exige. At the value suggested (£30k)Factory 240-260bhp cars should be available with a search on here and at main dealers. Just be aware of the Silverstone cars (usually 220 bhp)Early S2 Exiges can be supercharged to 260-280 bhp but a slightly week point is the Toyota gearbox, on all years. Aircon is a must and the car will become hot inside without it. The Lotus system is not ultra reliable though. Touring pack is nice to have but just adds weight! Try posting over on SELOC too. Depending on where you are someone may be prepared to assist in your search in exchange for a few beers.
Gary
I have not driven a Caterham so can't comment on a 'real' comparision between those and an Exige. At the value suggested (£30k)Factory 240-260bhp cars should be available with a search on here and at main dealers. Just be aware of the Silverstone cars (usually 220 bhp)Early S2 Exiges can be supercharged to 260-280 bhp but a slightly week point is the Toyota gearbox, on all years. Aircon is a must and the car will become hot inside without it. The Lotus system is not ultra reliable though. Touring pack is nice to have but just adds weight! Try posting over on SELOC too. Depending on where you are someone may be prepared to assist in your search in exchange for a few beers.
Gary
Sorry to hear about your health issue. Exige sounds like the top choice for you. I used to have a Caterham. Loved it to bits and I still promise myself I'll have another one day. I'm now on my 3rd Elise (just more practical and useable than a 7). I now have an Elise SC. Not sure what Caterham you had but anything R300 and quicker and you probably want to go supercharged. It's unlikely you'll be disappointed with a Exige 220 and a 240 and especially a 260 will blow you away (if you're a regular track day guy and had an R500). For more road use you may want to consider an Elise SC 220 with hard top, touring pack and AC (like mine). You get a back window you can see out of unlike an Exige. Worth looking at. Don't forget AC is an extra as is Touring Pack (soundproofing) which does make the car more useable.
You will also need a sports exhaust as Elise/Exige do not sound great standard. The supercharged cars scream when you nail it and get the revs up (8k RPM). I personally recommend 2Bular as they are quiet when cruising and get louder when the revs go up when you want it. Also no track day noise problems. Avoid Lotus sports exhausts as they are too loud for some tracks and can suffer from baffle failure.
Hope this helps
You will also need a sports exhaust as Elise/Exige do not sound great standard. The supercharged cars scream when you nail it and get the revs up (8k RPM). I personally recommend 2Bular as they are quiet when cruising and get louder when the revs go up when you want it. Also no track day noise problems. Avoid Lotus sports exhausts as they are too loud for some tracks and can suffer from baffle failure.
Hope this helps
I thought I'd just offer a comparison from an ownership perspective. I've owned two Caterhams (Roadsport VVC and a racing Roadsport A), and a driven a few others (R300 springs to mind as the best), and now own an Elise S2 111S, and have driven the 111R, SC and Exige S.
Livability: The Exige is a lot more refined. The boot's bigger, it's quieter, more relaxing to drive on bumpy roads, and the rear/mid engined layout coupled with the more advanced rear suspension gives a lot more rear end grip than a Caterham, so you can relax more when it's raining. The driving position is a bit odd, and if you're long in the leg you may like to consider a replacement steering wheel with a spacer. You could easily use an Exige or Elise every day, I did for three years. Only motorways and the need to carry bike, cello and kayak moved the Elise to secondplace on my driveway.
Driving Impressions: You won't feel part of the car in an Exige like a 7 - it's a car you drive, rather than just you and the road being all that's on your mind. It's not as alive in the corners, but on the other hand the ride over the bumps is astonishing - you'll be gobsmacked at the damping and suspension and the magic carpet effect over a bumpy road - that alone could entertain for a lifetime. The steering is wonderful - I actually rate it higher than a Caterham's. The servo brakes are, well, servoed (yuk!), but at least you get ABS I guess. The throttle's a DBW on the later (post '05?) models (urghh!), so not as good as a Caterham, but Lotus have done it very well and it's not a problem really. The performance is not a patch on a Caterham - from memory I think even the fastest Exige to date has only a slightly higher power to weight ratio than a basic £16k Caterham.The 0-60 doesn't tell the whole story, as rear end grip is in abundance on an Exige/Elise, and absent on a Caterham, but in the real world once about 20mph any Caterham is going to feel markedly quicker than an Exige. I think the interest from the ride and handling outweighs the lack of performance though.
Safety - the Exige is massively safer than a Caterham in an accident
For my type of relaxed road driving, the Elise that I own is the best road car I've ever driven - they are astoundingly good. An Elise or Exige is a car of technical engineering capability on road and track, rather than raw fun like a Caterham, but I respect that massively and actually prefer driving my Elise on the road - it gives more entertainment to me at low speed as well, which helps. I think you'll love it. As for spec, if you get yourself down to a good Lotus dealer they'll show you the various options on different cars, you can drive one or two and then make your decision - that's what I did at Bell and Colvill, and the salesman there (Richard I think) helped me make what I still regard as the perfect decision.
HTH
Livability: The Exige is a lot more refined. The boot's bigger, it's quieter, more relaxing to drive on bumpy roads, and the rear/mid engined layout coupled with the more advanced rear suspension gives a lot more rear end grip than a Caterham, so you can relax more when it's raining. The driving position is a bit odd, and if you're long in the leg you may like to consider a replacement steering wheel with a spacer. You could easily use an Exige or Elise every day, I did for three years. Only motorways and the need to carry bike, cello and kayak moved the Elise to secondplace on my driveway.
Driving Impressions: You won't feel part of the car in an Exige like a 7 - it's a car you drive, rather than just you and the road being all that's on your mind. It's not as alive in the corners, but on the other hand the ride over the bumps is astonishing - you'll be gobsmacked at the damping and suspension and the magic carpet effect over a bumpy road - that alone could entertain for a lifetime. The steering is wonderful - I actually rate it higher than a Caterham's. The servo brakes are, well, servoed (yuk!), but at least you get ABS I guess. The throttle's a DBW on the later (post '05?) models (urghh!), so not as good as a Caterham, but Lotus have done it very well and it's not a problem really. The performance is not a patch on a Caterham - from memory I think even the fastest Exige to date has only a slightly higher power to weight ratio than a basic £16k Caterham.The 0-60 doesn't tell the whole story, as rear end grip is in abundance on an Exige/Elise, and absent on a Caterham, but in the real world once about 20mph any Caterham is going to feel markedly quicker than an Exige. I think the interest from the ride and handling outweighs the lack of performance though.
Safety - the Exige is massively safer than a Caterham in an accident
For my type of relaxed road driving, the Elise that I own is the best road car I've ever driven - they are astoundingly good. An Elise or Exige is a car of technical engineering capability on road and track, rather than raw fun like a Caterham, but I respect that massively and actually prefer driving my Elise on the road - it gives more entertainment to me at low speed as well, which helps. I think you'll love it. As for spec, if you get yourself down to a good Lotus dealer they'll show you the various options on different cars, you can drive one or two and then make your decision - that's what I did at Bell and Colvill, and the salesman there (Richard I think) helped me make what I still regard as the perfect decision.
HTH
Had a similar health issue, more to do with frostbite than melanoma.
I viewed my move up to an exige as gaining a roof and heater.
You will be pleased to hear that ther is no change to the comfort, but you wont have to shout so much to your passenger.
Track wise you will be about as quick as you were, but can stay out longer with the added bonus of being able to drive home afterward,consistantly, and in an ambient temperature.
I have used my own ex catherham and my current Exige as examples.
PS you can fit a soft top for the missing rain in the hair excitement.
I viewed my move up to an exige as gaining a roof and heater.
You will be pleased to hear that ther is no change to the comfort, but you wont have to shout so much to your passenger.
Track wise you will be about as quick as you were, but can stay out longer with the added bonus of being able to drive home afterward,consistantly, and in an ambient temperature.
I have used my own ex catherham and my current Exige as examples.
PS you can fit a soft top for the missing rain in the hair excitement.
Type 49 said:
Track wise you will be about as quick as you were, but can stay out longer with the added bonus of being able to drive home afterward,consistantly, and in an ambient temperature.
Really?! Our Westfield Aerorace is around 5 seconds a lap quicker than the S2 Exige on the same tyres, and I am sure the Caterham, depending on model, is probably than the Westfield...jonamacg83 said:
Type 49 said:
Track wise you will be about as quick as you were, but can stay out longer with the added bonus of being able to drive home afterward,consistantly, and in an ambient temperature.
Really?! Our Westfield Aerorace is around 5 seconds a lap quicker than the S2 Exige on the same tyres, and I am sure the Caterham, depending on model, is probably than the Westfield...If you're going to get an Exige, get one with air con. This makes the car usable ALL the time (appropriate tyres required, of course) and if you're 'wasting' £30k then being able to use it all year round is a BIG plus.
However, an Exige with air con is 900 kg or so. Which is a LOT more than a Caterham, unless you're putting the engine from my sensible saloon in the Caterham (I don't think anyone has bothered…
).
So you will want power. Don't worry about tactility - the Lotus doesn't have the same 'seat of the pants' feel that Caterhams (and Westfields etc.) do because you're not sitting over the back axle in an Exige. In terms of 'feeling part of the car' - I have experience of both types of car in various versions, and I call 'horses
t' on the idea that the Lotus isn't as 'tactile' as a Caterham. It's *different* - the weight distribution, driver's arse position, and wheelbase/track ratio guarantee that - but I reckon you feel just as part of the car in an Exige as you do in any Caterham I've driven. The caveat is proper securing of your arse into the Exige. Even a CG-Lock is enough, but full harnesses are the gold standard. Normal inertia reel belts in an Exige, driven hard on track, will have you sliding out of the chair even if you weigh sod-all, and *that's* when you feel like you're not part of the car.
The Lotus steering feel is beyond reproach, you just need to be firmly secured to the seat. There's more space in an Exige than a Caterham so it's possible to be a 'bit loose' and that numbs the 'seat of the pants' feel. Lock yourself into the Lotus and you're part of the car. It's *that* good.
Power is the biggest problem. Making full use of the Exige's clever compromises (it's a usable grand tourer, if you choose the correct exhaust (2bular - don't even consider anything else) and enjoy *driving* more than looking at the view) means you will be touching 1000 kg with a passenger and some bits and bobs. Even skinny-bd me and my slightly-fat Exige are nearly crossing that nasty one-tonne line in the sand. So 'proper performance' needs strong supercharged motors.
And the Toyota unit is stymied by a gearbox that hasn't the torque capacity to be *really* fast - as in Caterham power-to-weight.
Pay big money and you can get around 270-280 bhp without making the gearbox a consumable (distilled from the forums here - I still only have 243, allegedly) but if you're very considerate with use of the power, you can probably run 300 without busting the gearbox immediately. It's torque, not power, that trashes gearboxes, but you know that.
As a result I'd concentrate on making the the car brake like crazy, handle *exactly* how you like to set your cars up, and stick with a middle-order tune (normal Exige S is 220 bhp, the PP is 240-odd), a 2bular exhaust, and whatever harnesses / seats you need to connect with the car. You'll go faster with the brakes / suspension upgrades than the extra raw power - the difference between 240 and 270-280 is easily wiped out by a more skilled driver and/or better handling.
I'm absolutely in love with my car - but have decided against any further fiddling with the Lotus-supplied engine and gearbox. I'll continue to upgrade the nut behind the wheel until it's financially sensible (and possible) to drop one of Simon's 320 bhp supercharged Hondas in (with a gearbox that can handle the engine) without losing the *usability* of the car (i.e. keep the heater, air-con, and that's about it).
Whether this is possible is for another thread.
It'll be a very different car to the Caterham, but don't think they're 'soft' on the track. They're merely less uncomfortable and a fair bit heavier, but you'll probably find more of a challenge going *really* quick in the Exige because of the polar moment of inertia (relatively less than the Caterham) and the central driving position (slip isn't noticed as quickly as when you're sitting on the rear axle). You *can* go fast in one though
However, an Exige with air con is 900 kg or so. Which is a LOT more than a Caterham, unless you're putting the engine from my sensible saloon in the Caterham (I don't think anyone has bothered…
).So you will want power. Don't worry about tactility - the Lotus doesn't have the same 'seat of the pants' feel that Caterhams (and Westfields etc.) do because you're not sitting over the back axle in an Exige. In terms of 'feeling part of the car' - I have experience of both types of car in various versions, and I call 'horses
t' on the idea that the Lotus isn't as 'tactile' as a Caterham. It's *different* - the weight distribution, driver's arse position, and wheelbase/track ratio guarantee that - but I reckon you feel just as part of the car in an Exige as you do in any Caterham I've driven. The caveat is proper securing of your arse into the Exige. Even a CG-Lock is enough, but full harnesses are the gold standard. Normal inertia reel belts in an Exige, driven hard on track, will have you sliding out of the chair even if you weigh sod-all, and *that's* when you feel like you're not part of the car.The Lotus steering feel is beyond reproach, you just need to be firmly secured to the seat. There's more space in an Exige than a Caterham so it's possible to be a 'bit loose' and that numbs the 'seat of the pants' feel. Lock yourself into the Lotus and you're part of the car. It's *that* good.
Power is the biggest problem. Making full use of the Exige's clever compromises (it's a usable grand tourer, if you choose the correct exhaust (2bular - don't even consider anything else) and enjoy *driving* more than looking at the view) means you will be touching 1000 kg with a passenger and some bits and bobs. Even skinny-b
d me and my slightly-fat Exige are nearly crossing that nasty one-tonne line in the sand. So 'proper performance' needs strong supercharged motors.And the Toyota unit is stymied by a gearbox that hasn't the torque capacity to be *really* fast - as in Caterham power-to-weight.
Pay big money and you can get around 270-280 bhp without making the gearbox a consumable (distilled from the forums here - I still only have 243, allegedly) but if you're very considerate with use of the power, you can probably run 300 without busting the gearbox immediately. It's torque, not power, that trashes gearboxes, but you know that.
As a result I'd concentrate on making the the car brake like crazy, handle *exactly* how you like to set your cars up, and stick with a middle-order tune (normal Exige S is 220 bhp, the PP is 240-odd), a 2bular exhaust, and whatever harnesses / seats you need to connect with the car. You'll go faster with the brakes / suspension upgrades than the extra raw power - the difference between 240 and 270-280 is easily wiped out by a more skilled driver and/or better handling.
I'm absolutely in love with my car - but have decided against any further fiddling with the Lotus-supplied engine and gearbox. I'll continue to upgrade the nut behind the wheel until it's financially sensible (and possible) to drop one of Simon's 320 bhp supercharged Hondas in (with a gearbox that can handle the engine) without losing the *usability* of the car (i.e. keep the heater, air-con, and that's about it).
Whether this is possible is for another thread.
It'll be a very different car to the Caterham, but don't think they're 'soft' on the track. They're merely less uncomfortable and a fair bit heavier, but you'll probably find more of a challenge going *really* quick in the Exige because of the polar moment of inertia (relatively less than the Caterham) and the central driving position (slip isn't noticed as quickly as when you're sitting on the rear axle). You *can* go fast in one though
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