Porsche Boxster
Discussion
Now I love my S2 Elise, just as much as I did my Caterham 7, but always had a hankering towards a Porsche Boxter, which always seemed to get good reviews from just about everywhere. Having had a quick look at the classifieds in Autotrader, I was amazed to see 70K examples of both the 2.7 and 3.2 for as little as £7.5 and £8.5 respectively. OK they are 10 year old cars but they look half that age, and further investigation of independant servicing seems to point to costs similar or not too much more than my Elise, (as long as nothing major required). Now I only run the Elise for 5k miles a year as a second car, and can renew things like brake pads/discs myself so what are the real costs of running one as a second, occasional car, 5-6k miles per year. Even the insurance is two bands lower for a 2.7, 18a compared to the Elise, 20.
icepop said:
Now I love my S2 Elise, just as much as I did my Caterham 7, but always had a hankering towards a Porsche Boxter, which always seemed to get good reviews from just about everywhere. Having had a quick look at the classifieds in Autotrader, I was amazed to see 70K examples of both the 2.7 and 3.2 for as little as £7.5 and £8.5 respectively. OK they are 10 year old cars but they look half that age, and further investigation of independant servicing seems to point to costs similar or not too much more than my Elise, (as long as nothing major required). Now I only run the Elise for 5k miles a year as a second car, and can renew things like brake pads/discs myself so what are the real costs of running one as a second, occasional car, 5-6k miles per year. Even the insurance is two bands lower for a 2.7, 18a compared to the Elise, 20.
So you want to replace a perfect second car with a bland push-me-pull-you 10 year old Nazi of a car?
I once Swapped an Elise SC for a Porsche Cayman S, bad mistake!
The Porsche Boxster/Cayman is a very capable well put together car, fantastic for motorway and everyday use, expect 24 - 30 mpg on a run but it's not a Lotus, not much feel compared with an Elise either, and unless you need a Bmw type sports car I.e. use it all the time why bother?
You pays your money you take your chance,
Recently my wife and myself thought about downsizing to One car for a couple of years, I’d sold our current Elise R, my wife’s Bmw & Corsa but when we went and test drove the 997 911 that we were going to replace them all with I just couldn’t get excited, fantastic car but not a Lotus
Outcome, Kept the Elise and upset the buyer, Bmw’s gone and the Corsa’s going back in December so we’ll replace that with a new Mini cooper simple
Boggy
The Porsche Boxster/Cayman is a very capable well put together car, fantastic for motorway and everyday use, expect 24 - 30 mpg on a run but it's not a Lotus, not much feel compared with an Elise either, and unless you need a Bmw type sports car I.e. use it all the time why bother?
You pays your money you take your chance,
Recently my wife and myself thought about downsizing to One car for a couple of years, I’d sold our current Elise R, my wife’s Bmw & Corsa but when we went and test drove the 997 911 that we were going to replace them all with I just couldn’t get excited, fantastic car but not a Lotus
Outcome, Kept the Elise and upset the buyer, Bmw’s gone and the Corsa’s going back in December so we’ll replace that with a new Mini cooper simple
Boggy
I wouldnt go back..I had a 986 Boxster and my dad ran a 987 Boxster at the same time. The 987 is a million times better than the 986 to drive/build quality. Our 987 demolished its intermediate shaft/balancer shaft at 27,000 miles after being nursed and ran in perfectly used on long journeys everything that a new car should love. My dads an ex service manager so no mug with cars either. The car had just left its extended warranty but Porsche out of "goodwill" makes me laugh... replaced the engine which we later found out to be a re-conditioned engine. He complained from day one that the car had a tappet like rattle to the engine. Porsche customer service is generally very poor from OPC's although the service girls at OPC Newcastle were great. If i was to buy another it would definetly need a warranty, i would probably take up the Hartech warranty to cover any engine problems and to give some piece of mind.
On the plus side the Boxster is a cracking roadster if you can go trouble free and very pratical with the two boots which were handy on a holiday to the south of France. For me though the way a Lotus drives and the sense of occassion in doing so wins over any other sports car i've driven. I recently drove the Boxster Spyder and although it handled well its just far to exspensive for what it is and once your inside even a bit bland.
On the plus side the Boxster is a cracking roadster if you can go trouble free and very pratical with the two boots which were handy on a holiday to the south of France. For me though the way a Lotus drives and the sense of occassion in doing so wins over any other sports car i've driven. I recently drove the Boxster Spyder and although it handled well its just far to exspensive for what it is and once your inside even a bit bland.
I guess the difference is between a fairly hard core car in the Lotus and something much more useable day to day in the Porker. If I wanted a sports car to use every day I wouldnt buy a Lotus or at least not an Elise / Exige. But then I probably wouldnt go for a Boxter either given the rep they have for engine problems. Maybe go BMW. We'll see because increasing age and decreasing wealth makes running an Elise as a weekend toy less attractive every year
But if all you want it for is a 5k miles a year weekend car, then in my experience the Boxter simply isnt special enough.
But if all you want it for is a 5k miles a year weekend car, then in my experience the Boxter simply isnt special enough.
icepop said:
Now I love my S2 Elise, just as much as I did my Caterham 7, but always had a hankering towards a Porsche Boxter, which always seemed to get good reviews from just about everywhere. Having had a quick look at the classifieds in Autotrader, I was amazed to see 70K examples of both the 2.7 and 3.2 for as little as £7.5 and £8.5 respectively. OK they are 10 year old cars but they look half that age, and further investigation of independant servicing seems to point to costs similar or not too much more than my Elise, (as long as nothing major required). Now I only run the Elise for 5k miles a year as a second car, and can renew things like brake pads/discs myself so what are the real costs of running one as a second, occasional car, 5-6k miles per year. Even the insurance is two bands lower for a 2.7, 18a compared to the Elise, 20.
Need to sort your hankering out. Stick with the Lotus
I've gone for a Cayman S after an Elise and Europa.
It is a great car, far more feelsome than a Z4 or TTS, for example. But.....you do need to work it very hard to get the fizz of excitement and feedback that you get from a Lotus.
For the first 1000 miles I was thinking ' I've made a mistake' why do the press rate the Porsche so highly? It feels inert?
It was only when I started driving at hooligan speeds with the stability control off that it began to reveal its talents. But they are harder to find than an Elises, which can thrill at 40mph and 120mph.
It is a great car, far more feelsome than a Z4 or TTS, for example. But.....you do need to work it very hard to get the fizz of excitement and feedback that you get from a Lotus.
For the first 1000 miles I was thinking ' I've made a mistake' why do the press rate the Porsche so highly? It feels inert?
It was only when I started driving at hooligan speeds with the stability control off that it began to reveal its talents. But they are harder to find than an Elises, which can thrill at 40mph and 120mph.
Herman Toothrot said:
You have to drive them very fast for yu to start to appreciate how good they are.
As the owner of a 986S, I'd agree with that. It doesn't start to get entertaining until 80, imo. I would add that at well into 3 leptons it's incredibly stable and has amazing brakes. It makes a fantastic sound too. It's also a brilliant car for long drives, with it's 2 boots and large fuel tank.
For a drive to the alps for instance, it can sit on the autoroute in near saloon like comfort at 90 on cc and 28mpg giving an almost 400 mile range, and then you can come off the autoroute, drop the roof without stopping, and then attack the alpine twisties with vigour and a great sound track.
However, none of this is very relevant to UK motoring.
Boggy said:
I once Swapped an Elise SC for a Porsche Cayman S, bad mistake!
The Porsche Boxster/Cayman is a very capable well put together car, fantastic for motorway and everyday use, expect 24 - 30 mpg on a run but it's not a Lotus, not much feel compared with an Elise either, and unless you need a Bmw type sports car I.e. use it all the time why bother?
You pays your money you take your chance,
Recently my wife and myself thought about downsizing to One car for a couple of years, I’d sold our current Elise R, my wife’s Bmw & Corsa but when we went and test drove the 997 911 that we were going to replace them all with I just couldn’t get excited, fantastic car but not a Lotus
Outcome, Kept the Elise and upset the buyer, Bmw’s gone and the Corsa’s going back in December so we’ll replace that with a new Mini cooper simple
Boggy
Boggy, so perhaps not the icon others try to claim eh?The Porsche Boxster/Cayman is a very capable well put together car, fantastic for motorway and everyday use, expect 24 - 30 mpg on a run but it's not a Lotus, not much feel compared with an Elise either, and unless you need a Bmw type sports car I.e. use it all the time why bother?
You pays your money you take your chance,
Recently my wife and myself thought about downsizing to One car for a couple of years, I’d sold our current Elise R, my wife’s Bmw & Corsa but when we went and test drove the 997 911 that we were going to replace them all with I just couldn’t get excited, fantastic car but not a Lotus
Outcome, Kept the Elise and upset the buyer, Bmw’s gone and the Corsa’s going back in December so we’ll replace that with a new Mini cooper simple
Boggy
I have owned a 997 911 C2S and now a Cayman S and I would agree with Boggy. I must be one of the few Porsche owners that says "...but it's not a Lotus".
I loved my Exige S and the Cayman is a more practical than emotional purchase after my wife declared I was not allowed a fibre glass car for commuting after writing off the Exige en route to work. Sure I could have got another Lotus for a play thing and something really sensible during the week, but I know that with a young family I wouldn't get much time at the weekend to justify it.
Porsches are great cars and lovely places to be but they feel a bit neutered in comparison with the rawness of most Loti. If my commute was different/shorter or I had time at the weekend I would be re-working my case with the wife in an instant.
Edited by Grinnders on Tuesday 14th September 19:54
Can't talk from personal experience but a good friend changed out of his S1 111S (same as mine) into a Boxster S only to change into an Exige S 18 months later.
Whilst he enjoyed the Boxster 'it wasn't a Lotus' and he soften struggled to maintain the same pace as me in the 111S through the bendy bits and never felt he could trust near the limit.
Good luck which ever way you go.
Whilst he enjoyed the Boxster 'it wasn't a Lotus' and he soften struggled to maintain the same pace as me in the 111S through the bendy bits and never felt he could trust near the limit.
Good luck which ever way you go.
Grinnders said:
I was not allowed a fibre glass car for commuting after writing off the Exige en route to work.
Not being nosy (well I am really) - but your profile says that you sold the Exige for the same money that you paid for it? Was that an insurance pay off or had you arranged to sell it, then pranged it?I have been tinkering with the idea of chopping the Exige S after 3 years ownership - have considered a Cayman S (not as good as my 997S), Nissan 370Z (not as good as my E46 M3) and an Evora (most desirable but newish ones still too expensive for a Lotus - need a couple more years to devalue) - but each drive in the Exige says Nah - don't bother ! I could be stuck in this car for years at this rate !
nsm3 said:
Grinnders said:
I was not allowed a fibre glass car for commuting after writing off the Exige en route to work.
Not being nosy (well I am really) - but your profile says that you sold the Exige for the same money that you paid for it? Was that an insurance pay off or had you arranged to sell it, then pranged it?nsm3 said:
I have been tinkering with the idea of chopping the Exige S after 3 years ownership - have considered a Cayman S (not as good as my 997S), Nissan 370Z (not as good as my E46 M3) and an Evora (most desirable but newish ones still too expensive for a Lotus - need a couple more years to devalue) - but each drive in the Exige says Nah - don't bother ! I could be stuck in this car for years at this rate !
I don't think there is really much between the CaymanS and 997S but each to their own. Go with your gut and keep the Exige... even the 997S isn't as quick to 60!
Grinnders said:
Boggy said:
I once Swapped an Elise SC for a Porsche Cayman S, bad mistake!
The Porsche Boxster/Cayman is a very capable well put together car, fantastic for motorway and everyday use, expect 24 - 30 mpg on a run but it's not a Lotus, not much feel compared with an Elise either, and unless you need a Bmw type sports car I.e. use it all the time why bother?
You pays your money you take your chance,
Recently my wife and myself thought about downsizing to One car for a couple of years, I’d sold our current Elise R, my wife’s Bmw & Corsa but when we went and test drove the 997 911 that we were going to replace them all with I just couldn’t get excited, fantastic car but not a Lotus
Outcome, Kept the Elise and upset the buyer, Bmw’s gone and the Corsa’s going back in December so we’ll replace that with a new Mini cooper simple
Boggy
Boggy, so perhaps not the icon others try to claim eh?The Porsche Boxster/Cayman is a very capable well put together car, fantastic for motorway and everyday use, expect 24 - 30 mpg on a run but it's not a Lotus, not much feel compared with an Elise either, and unless you need a Bmw type sports car I.e. use it all the time why bother?
You pays your money you take your chance,
Recently my wife and myself thought about downsizing to One car for a couple of years, I’d sold our current Elise R, my wife’s Bmw & Corsa but when we went and test drove the 997 911 that we were going to replace them all with I just couldn’t get excited, fantastic car but not a Lotus
Outcome, Kept the Elise and upset the buyer, Bmw’s gone and the Corsa’s going back in December so we’ll replace that with a new Mini cooper simple
Boggy
I have owned a 997 911 C2S and now a Cayman S and I would agree with Boggy. I must be one of the few Porsche owners that says "...but it's not a Lotus".
I loved my Exige S and the Cayman is a more practical than emotional purchase after my wife declared I was not allowed a fibre glass car for commuting after writing off the Exige en route to work. Sure I could have got another Lotus for a play thing and something really sensible during the week, but I know that with a young family I wouldn't get much time at the weekend to justify it.
Porsches are great cars and lovely places to be but they feel a bit neutered in comparison with the rawness of most Loti. If my commute was different/shorter or I had time at the weekend I would be re-working my case with the wife in an instant.
Edited by Grinnders on Tuesday 14th September 19:54
They are both fantastic car's for different people, I'll probably go for one of the Lotus newer models in a year or so or may be even buy a 2 11 (3 11) or whatever Lotus are building at the time, Mrs Boggy is buying another practical car so I only need a toy
Boggy
I sold the S1 111S to get a 968 Boxster S. No regrets so far, maybe apart from runnings costs (including suspension, etc upgrade costs). It's like a bigger much more refined Elise. The major thing is the steering being not sharp enough, even my E36 M3 is sharper, although it is very feelsome, but that may be due to the the suspension design (and I'm running it on quite stiff coilovers now).
I sold my 986 S after a few years of ownership to buy my Europa S which I have had about 18 months now.
The Porsche was a very nice drive, more refined than the Lotus and the engine sound supurb. My issue with the Porsche was always that potential for intermediate shaft failure. This pretty much means that unless you have £10k tucked away incase of a failure you need a warranty. There is a reason why unwarrantable 996's and Boxsters are available for such small money.
I coughed each year for the OPC warranty but don't get me started on my rant about they way OPC Nottingham and Porsche UK treated me. I will never spend another bean with OPC for as long as I live.
I still really have a 911 urge and now am in the position to buy a nice one but because of the way I was treated will never buy a Porsche from, nor have it maintained by OPC. No matter where my finances take me in the future I will not be setting foot in a Porsche showroom. If I lived local to Hartech I would have a nice 911 within their warranty scheme as I still love the cars but unfortunately its a bit of a trek for me to have maintained.
The Lotus offers a more raw driving experience, no need for warranty as the engine is nothing so special and should the very worse happen its a few thousand rather than ten or more. I feel less tied as to what I can or cannot do to the car, or where I take it for work. Having no need for warranty means a big chunk saved every year already. I rate the Lotus equal to the Porsche in terms of the driving appeal. It just thrills just in different ways. Financially the Lotus makes far more sense as you get same thrill factor for much less in terms of annual ownership costs. The rarity of the Europa makes the car seem special and every drive an occasion over an ever more common Boxster. What the Lotus lacks in engine note and slickness it makes up in raw driving thrills very easily, also uses about half the fuel of the Porker too so you can enjoy it even more!
The Porsche was a very nice drive, more refined than the Lotus and the engine sound supurb. My issue with the Porsche was always that potential for intermediate shaft failure. This pretty much means that unless you have £10k tucked away incase of a failure you need a warranty. There is a reason why unwarrantable 996's and Boxsters are available for such small money.
I coughed each year for the OPC warranty but don't get me started on my rant about they way OPC Nottingham and Porsche UK treated me. I will never spend another bean with OPC for as long as I live.
I still really have a 911 urge and now am in the position to buy a nice one but because of the way I was treated will never buy a Porsche from, nor have it maintained by OPC. No matter where my finances take me in the future I will not be setting foot in a Porsche showroom. If I lived local to Hartech I would have a nice 911 within their warranty scheme as I still love the cars but unfortunately its a bit of a trek for me to have maintained.
The Lotus offers a more raw driving experience, no need for warranty as the engine is nothing so special and should the very worse happen its a few thousand rather than ten or more. I feel less tied as to what I can or cannot do to the car, or where I take it for work. Having no need for warranty means a big chunk saved every year already. I rate the Lotus equal to the Porsche in terms of the driving appeal. It just thrills just in different ways. Financially the Lotus makes far more sense as you get same thrill factor for much less in terms of annual ownership costs. The rarity of the Europa makes the car seem special and every drive an occasion over an ever more common Boxster. What the Lotus lacks in engine note and slickness it makes up in raw driving thrills very easily, also uses about half the fuel of the Porker too so you can enjoy it even more!
Thats an interesting set of posts, mostly saying the same - the Lotus is more involving and a bit more fun but no better a car.
Cant help but wonder what the answers would have been had the OP asked about buying a second hand Ferrari or Aston. Ok likely to be a lot more dosh but how do they sit in the fun stakes compared to a Lotus?
Cant help but wonder what the answers would have been had the OP asked about buying a second hand Ferrari or Aston. Ok likely to be a lot more dosh but how do they sit in the fun stakes compared to a Lotus?
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