Engine Conversions

[stumpy67]

Why are they so expensive? Both the 1.8T and Honda engines aren't that expensive, surely ?!

[EX51GE R]

stumpy67 said:

Why are they so expensive? Both the 1.8T and Honda engines aren't that expensive, surely ?!

the engines are cheap, the relevant bits and bobs to make them A) fit and B) work, plus labour all add up.

[jondude]

Plus it is a small market and I would presume its members are hardcore nutter enthusiasts (meant in a nice way!) Enthusiasts are always going to be willing to pay good money for a product, for the simple reason they are only interested in the product itself.

[kambites]

These guys have a breakdown of the price of the different bits of their DIY kit.

http://www.stark-automotive.co.uk/hondaeliseconver...

[bogie]

dont underestimate how much different labour costs ...warranty allowance, profit (you know, what people are in business for)

have a conversion done "up North" at some cheap place on an industrial park, and you could be at 40 hours x £40 ph whereas "down South" in London that will be £100ph or more for nothing more, other than different business overheads/location

this subject has been done to death over the last 10 years, before Honda conversions, it was Turbo Technics conversion or fully built 1.8 K series engines for £14K + fitting (!)

"why is it £9K just to uprade my K series?"

expensive parts, + labour + warranty cost+ a bit of profit ...it all adds up

..but someone will always know a "mate" whos done his in his garage over 3 months, for 1/2 the price...

..which is ok, until you get to resale of course, or if you actually value your own time

check the prices of DIY Honda conversion compared with reputable turnkey conversion with no quibble warranty ...sure you might save a few grand doing it cheap, but you might lose even more come resale where the known quality conversions done in bigger numbers still command a price premium......

[Mark B]

I think it's been summed up quite nicely above, but to re-iterate. A lot of the costs come from labour, which is quite intensive on an Elise to do the job nicely/properly. The clam needs to come off, which in iteself is not a big job, but may need siezed bolts cut off, etc etc. Once the clam is clear, then there is the strip and refit of a new engine, full electrics to suit the car and then rebuild. I would imagine those that have a fixed price take into account they don't know what state the car will arrive in and price accordingly, some they win some they loose.

Yes it can be done DIY, but not all people are able to DIY hence they pays their money, go to work and collect it a week later. For me, DIY was the only way forward for a variety of reasons. I don't have the money or inclination to spend £10k on my £8k Elise, I also wanted to do the DIY job (from scratch) to prove my own desire, thoughts and to learn about the car. I think DIY solutions will become more and more attractive as the Elise becomes more and more available to those wanting a DIY car.

Resale values reflect very little of the cost of ownership of New or 2nd hand or modified cars so I don't think this plays a massive part. You could spend £10k and add £6k to the value of the car or spend £4k and add £2.5k to the value, horses for courses really.

The Elise is a great car, but in 120hp form it does become quite normal once you're used to it. Another 70hp + makes it quite a different prospect!

[stumpy67]

Cheers all.
I'm totally understanding of the costs inherent with labour rates and the pros/cons of value/cost on modifying cars, simply not the apparent costs of this conversion in the Elise (not too familiar with these cars).

I've spunked, err I mean spent, thousands on my RS4, and will not see much of that back, but we all know that when embarking on modifying our cars don't we.

This was more a case of the scale of cost in this conversion. The engines themselves are not expensive, as they are both common units to obtain, but the complexity adds alot to the bill no doubt.

I assume for this cost you are receiving a new engine, at 0miles, and not one with 100k on it ?!!

[kambites]

Usually second hand, I believe, although low mileage.

[bogie]

for £10K it usually a sub 10K mileage engine

these change hands for around £2.5K complete with all the bits you need

add in the £1600 labour

then £4K "box of bits" required to fit (complete)

then the VAT, warranty allowance, profit and you are there

dont forget that for the £10k its drive in drive out service with no quibble track warranty for 12 months/unlimited miles ...

you can do it for 1/2 that if you DIY, know what you are doing, have the tools n inclination, but be prepared to reinvent the wheel a bit as not all the info is out there without getting some help along the way in certain things i.e wiring loom, mapping etc

it dosent take much to go wrong DIY before the cost savings become neglible...there have been quite a few examples of this over the years posted up on other forums....

I had a Honda Elise for 6 years, and would have another tomorrow....Id buy used, what someone else has already put £15-20K into upgrading