Newbie advice please - S2 111s Vs 135r

[taustin]

Afternoon all, this is my first foray into posting, although i have used the site for a couple of years, so please be gentle!!

I am planning on chopping in my Focus ST to get a shopping trolley run-around for the wife, and spending the rest on getting an elise, my current issue is which one to get?

I have driven elises before on track and was very impressed, but want to have some feedback on what model would be best for its intended use. The plan is to use the car on a weekly basis, take it to Europe once or twice a year, and use for half a dozen track days.

My budget is c. £12k, so thats why i have been looking at an S2 111s or 135r. At the moment i am leaning towards a 111s with an induction kit and uprated exhaust, as i think that c 170 bhp wouldn't put the k-series under too much stress, and it would be quick enough for me to enjoy some b-road blats and some time on the track.

I appreciate that this topic may have been covered before but the search function on PH isn't the best.I have found the recently posted buyers guide very useful, but just wanted a bit more specific feedback on what Elise would suit me best on my budget before i start pinning down a specific vehicle.

Many thanks.

[Stu_00]

Drive both goes without saying - but 135r

[Scuffers]

Honestly, avoid the 135R like the plague, they were the ones with the questionable head castings, lot's have been changed (and sorted) but that's not the point.

the 111S (VVC) engine is way superior is every respect.

[taustin]

I forgot to mention that the car will be left out on the street - is there any real security advantage to havind a hardtop? Not too bothered from a driving perspective, as i plan to get the roof off as often as possible!

Also are there any issues with the batteries on the elises? Won't be able to rig up a trickle charger (as it will be on the street)but again, don't plan on leaving it more than a week at a time.

I am aware that this will polarise posters - but should i look out for air con? I hope to talk the wife into a few weeks / weekends away in the elise, and just wanted to know if it makes the car more usable on a long journey, either in the hot or in the cold.

Cheers.

[Scuffers]

Hardtop does make it harder to break in, but I would not buy one on that basis... more a case of use for winter.

And whilst AC is a nice to have, don't expect it to be like normal cars with AC, it's all a bit asthmatic - when it works, I am not sure I would pay a premium for it.

[Justin S]

Tell me which exhaust and induction kit gives an extra 14bhp please. I would be interested in buying it.................

[taustin]

Assumed from looking to have the induction, intercooler and exhaust done on my Focus ST that having a hurricane induction kit would increase bhp by 5 - 10 bhp, and similar additional bhp would be liberated by a tubular or larini (apologies if spelling is wrong!)exhaust - is this not the case? Or do these modificaitons on an elise just make the k-series rev easier ?

Cheers.

[Scuffers]

taustin said:

Assumed from looking to have the induction, intercooler and exhaust done on my Focus ST that having a hurricane induction kit would increase bhp by 5 - 10 bhp, and similar additional bhp would be liberated by a tubular or larini (apologies if spelling is wrong!)exhaust - is this not the case? Or do these modificaitons on an elise just make the k-series rev easier ?

Cheers.

in short, your dreaming.

[Loudman]

I've got an S2 111S and fitted mine with an aftermarket removable steering wheel, I can't remember total cost but it was about £300 including a nice sporty steering wheel (see my old posts for details) - and was reasonably easy to do myself. My reason was more aesthetic and ergonomic than security but that was an added benefit. Its dead easy to take on and off and I think is a pretty good deterrent for theft of the car itself (obviously doesn't affect vandalism or theft from the car. I think this mod could be done to any non-airbag S2.

Hardtops - I don't see how this helps really - clearly I would have thought that a hardtop would be better for security but then you've got to question whether you want a convertible or not because its not an instant removal, so would you have the hardtop on all year round for security? then whats the point of having a softtop? - I used to have mine on for winter only, it went on in Oct/Nov and didn't come off until March/April, then it sat untouched in the garage over spring/summer/autumn.

[taustin]

Thanks for all the advice so far, it is all really helpful.

Regarding induction and a sports exhaust, if bhp is not a tangible benefit, other than noise are there any performance benefits? So far i have been looking at elises that have these modifications done to save me a few quid (and grief from the other half for spending more money on a toy!) am i right in thinking that these extra's are definately worth doing on a 111s?

Looking to the future - do any of the Lotus clubs arrange track days?

Cheers.

[The Bandit]

The only trackday club you'll ever need
http://www.lotus-on-track.com/

[Justin S]

taustin said:

Thanks for all the advice so far, it is all really helpful.

Regarding induction and a sports exhaust, if bhp is not a tangible benefit, other than noise are there any performance benefits? So far i have been looking at elises that have these modifications done to save me a few quid (and grief from the other half for spending more money on a toy!) am i right in thinking that these extra's are definately worth doing on a 111s?

Looking to the future - do any of the Lotus clubs arrange track days?

Cheers.

Exhausts will make a car quicker by loosing a good 10 kg of weight. If you want a bit more poke, then a performance manifold and sports cat maybe a better way to extract a bit more torque, dependant on what you purchase. The 'real' way of getting a decent gain is to have Dave Andrews do his magic on the head and incorporate the exhaust and induction to help its breathing. The exhaust wont singulary add noticeable power, although having cut a 111's silencer in bits, it will have less/ no trap doors to restrict the sound and a cleaner path for the gases to escape. Also the standard cat will be still on there and the back pressure will still be held back by that.

[Stu_00]

The Bandit said:

The only trackday club you'll ever need
http://www.lotus-on-track.com/

+1 Great fun!

[hueandcry71]

Drive both, choose which one you like then think about mods.

I cant understand people wanting to make something "better" before they have even driven one.

Simplez.

[malbon]

135R will be 30bhp down on the 111s but don't believe the figures. 135R is easily just as fast and feels more planted and more on song with the close ratio box, harder suspension and tyres. 111s is a more compromised proposition IMHO but not so much in a bad way.

I'd take the 135R personally as it feels like I think an elise should feel - not like a nicety nicety everyday car.

[Scuffers]

malbon said:

135R will be 30bhp down on the 111s but don't believe the figures. 135R is easily just as fast

in your dreams it might be...

yes, the CR box makes a difference, and it 'feels' like it;s faster, but back int he cold light of day, the 111S will be up the road, VVC head is just streets away from the lightly ported std one in the 135r, along with better port design, bigger valves, and VVC, it's just a better engine around.

[malbon]

It feels faster and that's what counts.

OP, just drive them and see. The 111s definately wont be 'up the road'. Theres a knats b*llock in between them in real life but then you have a more special car in the 135R and one for TD's. Agree the 111s is a better engine undoubted but its negated with the box, the suspension and the feel. It's all about the all round pacakge.

Scuffers said:

malbon said:

135R will be 30bhp down on the 111s but don't believe the figures. 135R is easily just as fast

in your dreams it might be...

yes, the CR box makes a difference, and it 'feels' like it;s faster, but back int he cold light of day, the 111S will be up the road, VVC head is just streets away from the lightly ported std one in the 135r, along with better port design, bigger valves, and VVC, it's just a better engine around.

Edited by malbon on Saturday 21st August 13:10

[Scuffers]

malbon said:

It feels faster and that's what counts.

OP, just drive them and see. The 111s definately wont be 'up the road'. Theres a knats b*llock in between them in real life but then you have a more special car in the 135R and one for TD's. Agree the 111s is a better engine undoubted but its negated with the box, the suspension and the feel. It's all about the all round pacakge.

the only difference in suspension is the dampers, and they will probably be shot by now anyway, so what difference does that actually leave you with? (asides the point that the LSS billies were crap IMHO).

On the same tyres, you would be hard pushed to tell the difference in suspension (with 5+ year old cars)

[malbon]

You're not on the same tyres though are you. And if its been serviced, maybe dampers replaced as needed there is no reason why they'll be shot. It got the stiffer ARB on as well.

We're talking out-the-box cars here - and the difference is erm...different.

Yeah, in an ideal world you'd have a 111s with CR Box, Nitrons and spend some money on a nice road setup. But with 12k in your sky rocket, you're looking at option 1 vs option 2 and option 2 is better

Don't listen to Scuffers, he's forgot what K engines feel like

Edited by malbon on Saturday 21st August 13:21

[Scuffers]

malbon said:

We're talking out-the-box cars here - and the difference is erm...different.

that may have been the case 5+ years ago, but it's not now is it?

Not even sure you can get the old LSS billies any more (that were OEM to the 135r).

remember, the 135R will also be older than the 111S by some way also.

engine wise, I would not want to by a 135R knowing the heads were pretty much all screwed from new.