111r honda conversion?
Discussion
For N/A there's not any case for it as it's far cheaper to get to 220-240 bhp by sticking on a supercharger. Get the Lotus one and it'll not void your warranty.
So for toyota engined cars it's only really for those looking for over 300bhp so that'll mean a supercharged honda which is upwards of £13k. Thats an awful lot for an extra 30 hp but at least you get a gearbox not made out of swiss cheese.
So for toyota engined cars it's only really for those looking for over 300bhp so that'll mean a supercharged honda which is upwards of £13k. Thats an awful lot for an extra 30 hp but at least you get a gearbox not made out of swiss cheese.
Scuffers said:
ads_green said:
Thats an awful lot for an extra 30 hp but at least you get a gearbox not made out of swiss cheese.
30Bhp over what exactly?even if you look at the top spec Exige 260 it's still some 100+ bhp behind a top spec Honda, and they are currently some £50K from Lotus.
Maybe for somebody with a N/A toyota it is alot closer but for people already with 260+bhp 13k+ for 100bhp is still marginal given the alternative solutions. If it wasn't for the crappy toyota gearbox being supplied we'd see alot more power being offerred.
You could go racing with it but again you're limited given the current regs of the Lotus Trophy.
The problem for the engine conversion people is that the toyota isn't as bad as the k series and for most people 260 is going to be fine for them. Sure you'll always have people who want more but I guarantee you that the numbers of S2 toyota customers will be less than the k series. I'm not trying to bash the conversion suppliers but I don't see as big a market for a toyota -> honda. If there were then I would have expected to have seen a package already offered given that the toyota has been with us for over 6 years.
That being said, if my engine failed then I would seriously look at a conversion at that time.
Think of me as an interested outsider, not a Lotus owner currently but the charged VTEC Lotus idea is one that appeals to me a lot.
I can't figure out how on earth a supercharged Honda conversion is 16-18k? Is this predominantly labour or something? Could anyone give me a rough break down of the cost?
I can't figure out how on earth a supercharged Honda conversion is 16-18k? Is this predominantly labour or something? Could anyone give me a rough break down of the cost?
Ponk said:
Think of me as an interested outsider, not a Lotus owner currently but the charged VTEC Lotus idea is one that appeals to me a lot.
I can't figure out how on earth a supercharged Honda conversion is 16-18k? Is this predominantly labour or something? Could anyone give me a rough break down of the cost?
It's not, unless you do it in many stages.I can't figure out how on earth a supercharged Honda conversion is 16-18k? Is this predominantly labour or something? Could anyone give me a rough break down of the cost?
Realistically, top spec Honda from scratch giving ~380hp will be in the order of ~£14-15K turnkey.
Now, this is a race proven, reliable product, giving the kind of performance that a cup 260 can only dream of.
Yes, you can work on the 2zz engine, but it's far from cheap, you still have to find a gearbox, and to get to the same kind of performance has so far proven difficult and problematic.
When you say turn key I take it you mean drive in/ drive out? Any idea what the costs look like for the DIY builder?
Surely a large part of it could be done by myself? There seem to be plenty of kits floating around for it. I've already got a Rotrex C30-94 and DTA management on my current car.
Surely a large part of it could be done by myself? There seem to be plenty of kits floating around for it. I've already got a Rotrex C30-94 and DTA management on my current car.
Ponk said:
When you say turn key I take it you mean drive in/ drive out? Any idea what the costs look like for the DIY builder?
Surely a large part of it could be done by myself? There seem to be plenty of kits floating around for it. I've already got a Rotrex C30-94 and DTA management on my current car.
Yes it is (and warranted)Surely a large part of it could be done by myself? There seem to be plenty of kits floating around for it. I've already got a Rotrex C30-94 and DTA management on my current car.
Ponk said:
Any idea what the costs look like for the DIY builder?
As an idea of costing, ive managed to pick up all the bits, including engine and gearbox, for just over £2000. If you look round, speak to people, visit civic forums and chat to people on there, you find there are bits for sale which arent advertised.
If you are prepared to take your time, do a bit of driving round and make sure you know what youre looking for in the first place it can be done on a relatively tight budget.
Of course, I would be much happier with a turnkey link up but I havent got £10k to spend. Im actually looking forward to doing the work myself anyway.
Add your charger on top of that, probably £2-3k for the bits and youre away.
The only issue or unforseen expense, would be sorting the mapping out as there arent many people I would trust to do it properly. Melting pistons is never going to be a cheap fix.
What about custom fabricated bit like mounts and such?
I'm all for diy however it's not a straight swap and if you get something even slightly wrong then you'll have a failure.
Its taken many years of constant development, investment and testing from people like scuffers to get the conversion where it is today and it's as near (and some would argue better) than what OEM manufacturers produce.
Throwing in a 12month warranty makes it a very strong case for a conversion installed by a supplier.
I'm all for diy however it's not a straight swap and if you get something even slightly wrong then you'll have a failure.
Its taken many years of constant development, investment and testing from people like scuffers to get the conversion where it is today and it's as near (and some would argue better) than what OEM manufacturers produce.
Throwing in a 12month warranty makes it a very strong case for a conversion installed by a supplier.
Ive managed to buy all the bits second hand. For example, I got a second hand set of mounts off a guy who was putting a supercharger on his car so wanted brand new mounts. I had the mounts checked over and they are in tip top condition so Im happy to use them.
Ive managed to get some driveshafts which need a refurb but the cost of purchase plus refurb is no where near the cost of a new set.
etc etc etc
If you are happy to take your time doing it and do the leg work, you can get all the proper conversion bits second hand from people upgrading or converting their car back to K series (ie, LOT racers earlier this year).
As for a warranty, well if youre doing the conversion yourself, then you should be fairly competent to sort any issues that arise or at least have a friendly local garage who is competent with Honda Conversions to help you out if you need it.
The age old adage of pays your money and makes your choice stands here. If youve got 10k to have a fantastic Link Up kit, then go for it. If you havent, then try and do it yourself.
No one can ever knock anyone trying to do a DIY conversion on their own car
Ive managed to get some driveshafts which need a refurb but the cost of purchase plus refurb is no where near the cost of a new set.
etc etc etc
If you are happy to take your time doing it and do the leg work, you can get all the proper conversion bits second hand from people upgrading or converting their car back to K series (ie, LOT racers earlier this year).
As for a warranty, well if youre doing the conversion yourself, then you should be fairly competent to sort any issues that arise or at least have a friendly local garage who is competent with Honda Conversions to help you out if you need it.
The age old adage of pays your money and makes your choice stands here. If youve got 10k to have a fantastic Link Up kit, then go for it. If you havent, then try and do it yourself.
No one can ever knock anyone trying to do a DIY conversion on their own car
Not knocking anyone wanting to go down the DIY route, but don't be suckered into thinking it's that cheap to do.
As already hinted at, sorting out a 'decent' ECU solution and getting it mapped properly is never going to be cheap, plenty of people have tried the cheap route here and come un-stuck (in the last few months alone, I have had to produce several looms/ECU's/Mapping for people who went other routes and had issues).
The mounts etc are not the expensive parts (although getting them right seem to be beyond some), it's all the 'small' stuff that adds up, ie. having a decent exhaust manifold/system made is not peanuts, Honda Tripod joints are not exactly cheap, neither are the (GKN) CV's, that's before you have the shafts made - and some do seem to be made of cheese like this one:
(and no, it's not been in an accident or hit by anything)
Realistically, assuming your buying new stuff and it's not rubbish, I think your looking at ~£4-5K in parts + engine & box + consumables. I am not suggesting it can't be done cheaper, but in the long term, your more than likely to end up paying again for stuff.
As already hinted at, sorting out a 'decent' ECU solution and getting it mapped properly is never going to be cheap, plenty of people have tried the cheap route here and come un-stuck (in the last few months alone, I have had to produce several looms/ECU's/Mapping for people who went other routes and had issues).
The mounts etc are not the expensive parts (although getting them right seem to be beyond some), it's all the 'small' stuff that adds up, ie. having a decent exhaust manifold/system made is not peanuts, Honda Tripod joints are not exactly cheap, neither are the (GKN) CV's, that's before you have the shafts made - and some do seem to be made of cheese like this one:
(and no, it's not been in an accident or hit by anything)
Realistically, assuming your buying new stuff and it's not rubbish, I think your looking at ~£4-5K in parts + engine & box + consumables. I am not suggesting it can't be done cheaper, but in the long term, your more than likely to end up paying again for stuff.
Thats shocking. Luckily, the shafts im getting are linkup ones, so hopefully Scuffers, that should be their guarantee of quality! 
Only issue I can think of re driveshafts/ mounts is im using late Phoenix mounts with linkup driveshafts. Ill measure it all up while doing it but I think its a fingers crossed type thing as they arent matched.
Only issue I can think of re driveshafts/ mounts is im using late Phoenix mounts with linkup driveshafts. Ill measure it all up while doing it but I think its a fingers crossed type thing as they arent matched.
Scuffers said:
Realistically, assuming your buying new stuff and it's not rubbish, I think your looking at ~£4-5K in parts + engine & box + consumables. I am not suggesting it can't be done cheaper, but in the long term, your more than likely to end up paying again for stuff.
That's pretty reasonable really! Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff