Discussion
cuzza said:
If you buy a £15k 111S now, in a years time it will be worth about £14k **, so you need an account that will provide over a grand in interest in a year to make anything - that's 20% in a year which is very unlikely.
** just an extra 15k miles could knock the price by £1000 even if prices stay the same (which they won't).
Just my opinion. Anyway - let's concentrate on getting Plotloss out of one of those medallion wearing TVRs shall we and into something decent shall we??
Didnt want to intrude further onto Plotloss' thread so i thought i'd start my own
I hear what you are saying and it makes total sense, but
Aim: S2 111s @ £20k
Take an S1 111s and run it for one year. According to PistonHeads classified section they are currently retailing at £15-16k. Bear in mind i bought mine last year for £16K there has probably been around £1k depreciation. But! "the time of year" means the cars take a knock in price so these current prices *might* be artificial.
I have no doubt that they would rise by around £500 come the summer months.
IMHO my car has depreciated around £600-700. You cannot apply the same depreciation curve from the S2 as they are clearly deemed to be different cars (as evident by pricing). Look at how the Elan has remained strong. Why should such a limited and "exclusive" version of the elise be any different?
so:
car @ £15k and £5k in a high interest account. 20% is a little high, but is 10%?? (i dont know
). If not, he could end up selling the elise for £14k+£5k+£500
=£19.5k
Factor in that one year has passed (increasing the budget) you could buy a £20k S2 111s or a little more than £20k depending on much is saved.
In the meantinme, you have owned and enjoyed an S1 for around £500, thus satisfying the "i cant wait" requirement.
Not bad?
What does everybody think? I've made at least Cuzza
so teach me something in return if ive completely gone mad No, I think your logic is sound. Your concept of 10% interest on a 5k investment isn't (3-4% is more realistic) but I think S2s will depreciate a lot in the next year because everyone will want a 111R and Lotus are still churning out lots of cars with K-Series engines (
) which will continue to push residuals down further. The Classic Elise (S1) can only get rarer now...
) which will continue to push residuals down further. The Classic Elise (S1) can only get rarer now...
If your happy with an S2+mods then cool!
But, you will struggle to sell it (ask B19GRR).
All im saying is, if you want an S2 111s, then you could run an S1 111s for now (provided you fit
) and buy an S2 111s next year. you pays your money etc etc
Any S2+K-series is going to take a hit, yes
>> Edited by dragstar on Tuesday 9th March 15:46
Er this isn't rocket science chaps. If you buy a more expensive newer S2, you will lose more money.
On most every count the S2 is a superior car anyway unless you :
a) really like the styling of the S1 (you are probably too old or blind to be driving
). b) prefer a car that sounds like a bag of spanners when you go over a bump.
c) prefer the handling balance (which is too expensive to remedy on an S2 to be honest)* **.
d) can't afford it.
* lots of people who moan about the understeer then proceed to stack their S1s on the road and suddenly become less vocal on the issue.
** you will need to buy aftermarket shocks for the S1 as the OEM ones were shit.
Just my take on the issue and given I have an S2 I'm equally open to the accusation that I favour what I've bought, that I'd level at S1 owners.
Plotloss said:
Thanks chaps,
Its only got two uses.
Schlep me in and out of London on a daily basis being entertaining into the bargain.
High day and dry day balls out hoonery.
Here are your choices:
1) S2 (standard): good fun, but a bit weedy (when viewed from coming from a TVR). The 111r is going to kill S2 prices, so buying now would mean losing alot come sale time.
2) S2 (serious modification): Good fun and the power to match. It is fun modding your car and getting it back etc.
But, you'll lose money upon sale because it will be a k-series, and like all cars, you dont make the money back on Mods.
Like i said such cars are harder to sell as well
3) S2 111s. Out of budget, but will be >£20k next year.
4) S1 111s. Good fun. Has the guts to match without much modification. Cheap insurance (future classic policies) and will lose relatively little money compared to the S2.
But, it will still lose money.
the BEST thing to do is wait but if you cant, get the S1 and pocket the difference. I am biased though
DanH said:
On most every count the S2 is a superior car anyway unless you :
a) really like the styling of the S1 (you are probably too old or blind to be driving
its not reaching classic status for nothing
b) prefer a car that sounds like a bag of spanners when you go over a bump.
absolute tosh!Plus alot of S1 111s will have serious suspension modifications
c) prefer the handling balance (which is too expensive to remedy on an S2 to be honest)
d) can't afford it.
nothing is that simple. I went for the S1 because its a better car
Basically drive a bunch before parting with your dosh, then decide what you want to spend it on.
If you can live with an S1, you'll probably lose less as it'll have taken the bulk of the depreciation already and the loss curve will be less steep.
If you can't, get the best deal for whatever you're prepared to spend on an S2 and get the biggest bang for your buck. However, don't expect much return back from any mods and do be prepared for them to have an effect on how easy or hard it might be to sell on to someone else.
Either way you'll lose money - thats the nature of cars "innit" - just how much is a lottery, as even thought the S1 looks like it could be heading for classic status you can never tell what's going to happen in 6mths or a year...etc
Only you can make the decision on just how much you're prepared to gamble.
If you can live with an S1, you'll probably lose less as it'll have taken the bulk of the depreciation already and the loss curve will be less steep.
If you can't, get the best deal for whatever you're prepared to spend on an S2 and get the biggest bang for your buck. However, don't expect much return back from any mods and do be prepared for them to have an effect on how easy or hard it might be to sell on to someone else.
Either way you'll lose money - thats the nature of cars "innit" - just how much is a lottery, as even thought the S1 looks like it could be heading for classic status you can never tell what's going to happen in 6mths or a year...etc
Only you can make the decision on just how much you're prepared to gamble.
S1/S2 tosh
All lotus' are classics, or will become so.
S1 is approaching classic status 'cos its older.
S2 will be a classic, just not before the S1.
Yes the S1 is the original elise, but S2 is the more sorted car (sorry drag).
I wanted an S1, but finding a tight example was very difficult. The S2 is much more comfortable, and better put together. I bought an S2.
This means a few buyers will always want the original, but more people will be more comfortable with the S2. The whole thing a question of supply and demand. IMHO it will even out in the end.
The S2 will take a greater hit on value short term, because it is newer and intrinsically more valuable. The 111r will not kill S2 prices, but it will affect them in the same way the S2 affected S1 prices.
If you can find a tight S1 111s, I'd seriously consider it. If its the right price, & has been 'sorted out', there is no real difference between the S1 & S2. They are equally magnificent pieces of engineering.
Personally I wouldn't get hung up on S1 v. S2, just find the 'right' car for you, at the 'right' money.
I always find the research to be almost as enjoyable as the purchase. (Although in the case of the elise nothing can touch the true joy of owning one
)
Regards, Neil
All lotus' are classics, or will become so.
S1 is approaching classic status 'cos its older.
S2 will be a classic, just not before the S1.
Yes the S1 is the original elise, but S2 is the more sorted car (sorry drag).
I wanted an S1, but finding a tight example was very difficult. The S2 is much more comfortable, and better put together. I bought an S2.
This means a few buyers will always want the original, but more people will be more comfortable with the S2. The whole thing a question of supply and demand. IMHO it will even out in the end.
The S2 will take a greater hit on value short term, because it is newer and intrinsically more valuable. The 111r will not kill S2 prices, but it will affect them in the same way the S2 affected S1 prices.
If you can find a tight S1 111s, I'd seriously consider it. If its the right price, & has been 'sorted out', there is no real difference between the S1 & S2. They are equally magnificent pieces of engineering.
Personally I wouldn't get hung up on S1 v. S2, just find the 'right' car for you, at the 'right' money.
I always find the research to be almost as enjoyable as the purchase. (Although in the case of the elise nothing can touch the true joy of owning one
) Regards, Neil
Agree with Neil re. S1s. If you can find a really nice example go for it. The S1 111S has the advantage of a close ratio gearbox (the S2 111S lacks this) I believe, but beware that it develops less power than the S2 version (10-12bhp off the top of my head?).
If looking seriously at S1s, I'd consider a sport 160 too but hard to fine ones that aren't thrashed and nail like. A nice thing to find on an S1 would also be a set of nitron dampers. The stock s1 dampers are shockingly (/gah) bad.
NJS25 said:
S1/S2 tosh
All lotus' are classics, or will become so.
S1 is approaching classic status 'cos its older.
S2 will be a classic, just not before the S1.
Yes the S1 is the original elise, but S2 is the more sorted car (sorry drag).
I wanted an S1, but finding a tight example was very difficult. The S2 is much more comfortable, and better put together. I bought an S2.
This means a few buyers will always want the original, but more people will be more comfortable with the S2. The whole thing a question of supply and demand. IMHO it will even out in the end.
The S2 will take a greater hit on value short term, because it is newer and intrinsically more valuable. The 111r will not kill S2 prices, but it will affect them in the same way the S2 affected S1 prices.
If you can find a tight S1 111s, I'd seriously consider it. If its the right price, & has been 'sorted out', there is no real difference between the S1 & S2. They are equally magnificent pieces of engineering.
Personally I wouldn't get hung up on S1 v. S2, just find the 'right' car for you, at the 'right' money.
I always find the research to be almost as enjoyable as the purchase. (Although in the case of the elise nothing can touch the true joy of owning one
Regards, Neil
well done that man... horses for courses, focus fun car 111S S1, every day 'practical' transport got to be S2 
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