Discussion
I had the good fortune to drive a Scura round the Nurburgring and also at Spa last weekend which is, I know, essentially a 260 Cup underneath.
The car was surprisingly comfortable and refined on the road and hugely impressive on the track. For some the 260 upgrade is hard to notice above the 240 but for my money it just tips the Exige over the right side of ballistic. It feels noticeably sharper over the last 1500 revs than the 240. Torque felt mildly stronger throughout but it's the searing top end that makes it so enjoyable. Until now I've been impressed with the S/C toyotas but they've all been a bit linear for their own good and for sheer fun the n/a takes some beating. The 260 engine now feels the best of both worlds. Strong torque and laugh out loud top end.
In practice it turns out it's even quicker than it feels. In a straight line it monstered the RSR Exige S's (220bhp?) and seriously, to my astonishment, there was next to nothing in it to a flat out 997 GT3 RS. I bet the owner's still having nightmares about it. It was the most feeble eek quicker, and that's at Spa, a power circuit if ever there was one.
The cornerling ability was beyond reproach. Absolutely flawless, very stable, hugely confidence inspiring, beautiful balance and breathtakingly fast. The fluid change of direction through the corners after the kemmel straight will stay with me for quite a while. Steering brimming with feel, it flowed like nothing I've driven through there. My Caterham is quicker still but it does it with less finess. It's all a bit more brutal where the lotus feels very polished and almost serene at speed. It's also more planted (thanks to the downforce) than the Caterham over the crests and bumps at the 'ring.
Safe to say I was deeply, deeply impressed. And to think it's a standard road car beggars belief. I love my Elise but frankly this Exige would blow it into the weeds.
This being pistonheads there's a lot of slagging of everything lotus does. After reading all this stuff about 'heat soak' etc I can safely say there was no sign of it all weekend. The factory toyota engined cars are a lot better than some people here would have you believe. I'd be wary of what you read here as many of the naysayers have vested interests. The other thing is the slagging this car has recieved for being £47k brand new. Trust me when you're behind a £100k 997 GT3 RS and it's not getting away (even on the straights), £47k starts looking like a bargain.
Much as I'd love a 211 (it can only be even better on the track) I think the extra practicality of the 260 Exige makes it the best road/track car you can buy.
The car was surprisingly comfortable and refined on the road and hugely impressive on the track. For some the 260 upgrade is hard to notice above the 240 but for my money it just tips the Exige over the right side of ballistic. It feels noticeably sharper over the last 1500 revs than the 240. Torque felt mildly stronger throughout but it's the searing top end that makes it so enjoyable. Until now I've been impressed with the S/C toyotas but they've all been a bit linear for their own good and for sheer fun the n/a takes some beating. The 260 engine now feels the best of both worlds. Strong torque and laugh out loud top end.
In practice it turns out it's even quicker than it feels. In a straight line it monstered the RSR Exige S's (220bhp?) and seriously, to my astonishment, there was next to nothing in it to a flat out 997 GT3 RS. I bet the owner's still having nightmares about it. It was the most feeble eek quicker, and that's at Spa, a power circuit if ever there was one.
The cornerling ability was beyond reproach. Absolutely flawless, very stable, hugely confidence inspiring, beautiful balance and breathtakingly fast. The fluid change of direction through the corners after the kemmel straight will stay with me for quite a while. Steering brimming with feel, it flowed like nothing I've driven through there. My Caterham is quicker still but it does it with less finess. It's all a bit more brutal where the lotus feels very polished and almost serene at speed. It's also more planted (thanks to the downforce) than the Caterham over the crests and bumps at the 'ring.
Safe to say I was deeply, deeply impressed. And to think it's a standard road car beggars belief. I love my Elise but frankly this Exige would blow it into the weeds.
This being pistonheads there's a lot of slagging of everything lotus does. After reading all this stuff about 'heat soak' etc I can safely say there was no sign of it all weekend. The factory toyota engined cars are a lot better than some people here would have you believe. I'd be wary of what you read here as many of the naysayers have vested interests. The other thing is the slagging this car has recieved for being £47k brand new. Trust me when you're behind a £100k 997 GT3 RS and it's not getting away (even on the straights), £47k starts looking like a bargain.
Much as I'd love a 211 (it can only be even better on the track) I think the extra practicality of the 260 Exige makes it the best road/track car you can buy.
rs200evo said:
Great read. Is the Scura as hardcore as the Cup 260 (suspension, weight etc.), or would the Cup 260 prove even more of a track tool.
Excellent write up. I couldn't agree more.My Cup 260 is very civilised. Much more so than my S2 Elise 111s was. Ballistic is a good way to describe the performance.
On track the grip is phenominal, as all Exiges are.
Mine will be for sale in about 10 years time, all being well.
Cup 260 is lighter still thanks to carbon roof, lighter wheels, no rear window and lightweight motorsports battery. Suspension as far as I know is the same on the Scura.
One thing worth mentioning is that the Scura I drove had been lowered on it's standard suspension. The geo was revised according to factory settings for a lower ride height. I can't compare with standard but it handled like a dream and amazingly the ride quality on the road didn't appear to suffer one bit.
One thing worth mentioning is that the Scura I drove had been lowered on it's standard suspension. The geo was revised according to factory settings for a lower ride height. I can't compare with standard but it handled like a dream and amazingly the ride quality on the road didn't appear to suffer one bit.
Surprised that a cup 260 can keep up with a 997GT3 RS through the gears in a straight line. I tried it at Bedford in my Exige Katana and it murdered me until I got back into the bends. I was hitting close to 140 on the back straights and the 997 GT3's were doing at least 160.
I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
STEVEY_SC said:
Surprised that a cup 260 can keep up with a 997GT3 RS through the gears in a straight line. I tried it at Bedford in my Exige Katana and it murdered me until I got back into the bends. I was hitting close to 140 on the back straights and the 997 GT3's were doing at least 160.
I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
How much are the above cars you mention?I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
Cup 260 new can be had for £42k with a big of haggling, you'll be lucky to get a 997 GT3 RS new for under £110k.
The noise a 997 GT3 makes is worth the money alone.
The noise a 997 GT3 makes is worth the money alone.
doggydave said:
STEVEY_SC said:
Surprised that a cup 260 can keep up with a 997GT3 RS through the gears in a straight line. I tried it at Bedford in my Exige Katana and it murdered me until I got back into the bends. I was hitting close to 140 on the back straights and the 997 GT3's were doing at least 160.
I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
How much are the above cars you mention?I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
STEVEY_SC said:
Cup 260 new can be had for £42k with a big of haggling, you'll be lucky to get a 997 GT3 RS new for under £110k.
The noise a 997 GT3 makes is worth the money alone.
I'd try for the Cup spec car, it's around 860kg The noise a 997 GT3 makes is worth the money alone.
doggydave said:
STEVEY_SC said:
Surprised that a cup 260 can keep up with a 997GT3 RS through the gears in a straight line. I tried it at Bedford in my Exige Katana and it murdered me until I got back into the bends. I was hitting close to 140 on the back straights and the 997 GT3's were doing at least 160.
I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
How much are the above cars you mention?I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
Boggy
Boggy said:
STEVEY_SC said:
Cup 260 new can be had for £42k with a big of haggling, you'll be lucky to get a 997 GT3 RS new for under £110k.
The noise a 997 GT3 makes is worth the money alone.
I'd try for the Cup spec car, it's around 860kg The noise a 997 GT3 makes is worth the money alone.
doggydave said:
STEVEY_SC said:
Surprised that a cup 260 can keep up with a 997GT3 RS through the gears in a straight line. I tried it at Bedford in my Exige Katana and it murdered me until I got back into the bends. I was hitting close to 140 on the back straights and the 997 GT3's were doing at least 160.
I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
How much are the above cars you mention?I agree that a 997 GT3RS isn't worth 60k more than an Exige 260, the 997 GT3 RS is more of an icon and supercar though so it demands a higher price tag. The Exige as good as it is is just a cheap track focused road car, I wouldn't swap it for anything on track but I'd be more inclined to drive something like a F430, 997 GT3 and AMV12 on the road.
Boggy
Boggy
I also doubt it could out-run a 997 cup car, it may well be able to keep with one till ~100, but after that it will be all over.
Also, I don't consider it a valid comparison (cost wise) with with a 997, they are not the same kind of car, or aimed at the same market.
I do agree the 260 is the best variant yet, it's really what the Exige S should be, my only gripe is the ever increasing weights.
Also, I don't consider it a valid comparison (cost wise) with with a 997, they are not the same kind of car, or aimed at the same market.
I do agree the 260 is the best variant yet, it's really what the Exige S should be, my only gripe is the ever increasing weights.
Never claimed it could 'out-run' any GT3, nor to keep up with one past 140mph. Nor even claimed it was 'as fast' in a straight line. The porker had an advantage but it was so pathetically slight that it was the source of great amusement for those inside the Lotus. The porsche does sound better yes, and it is faster but it's nowhere near £60k better. I also think a good few GT3 owners would actually prefer the Lotus to drive if they tried one, because its steering and chassis balance are actually superior. Personally, I'd pay more to own the Exige, but I know I'm alone on that one. But I'm amazed by those who only have an Exige while they're saving up for their 911. The porker really isn't all that. Surely for some disappointment is on the cards?
But it's not my intention to have a go at the 911, try as I might to make people see sense, I never win here, such is the unfathomable level of adoration for it. My point was only to reassure those good souls who've just spent north of £40k on an Exige, who strangely take a bashing on here for doing so, to know that it's a very special car at any price.
All that's holding me back from phoning the Lotus shop at the moment is the thought of what £20k's worth of tuning mods could do to my elise...
But it's not my intention to have a go at the 911, try as I might to make people see sense, I never win here, such is the unfathomable level of adoration for it. My point was only to reassure those good souls who've just spent north of £40k on an Exige, who strangely take a bashing on here for doing so, to know that it's a very special car at any price.
All that's holding me back from phoning the Lotus shop at the moment is the thought of what £20k's worth of tuning mods could do to my elise...
Scuffers said:
I also doubt it could out-run a 997 cup car, it may well be able to keep with one till ~100, but after that it will be all over.
Also, I don't consider it a valid comparison (cost wise) with with a 997, they are not the same kind of car, or aimed at the same market.
I do agree the 260 is the best variant yet, it's really what the Exige S should be, my only gripe is the ever increasing weights.
Yes, just had my suspension upgraded and corner weights done and the total weight was actually around 890kg including all fluids and not including an FIA roll cage (which must add around 15 - 20KG). So, even a claimed dry weight of 860kg is very much pushing it to say the very least !Also, I don't consider it a valid comparison (cost wise) with with a 997, they are not the same kind of car, or aimed at the same market.
I do agree the 260 is the best variant yet, it's really what the Exige S should be, my only gripe is the ever increasing weights.
I think, to be in the same zone as the latest 997GT3 through the gears (up to around 100 mph), a Cup 260 would need a genuine 300bhp - ie, no heat soak issues :-).
mogg said:
Yes, just had my suspension upgraded and corner weights done and the total weight was actually around 890kg including all fluids and not including an FIA roll cage (which must add around 15 - 20KG). So, even a claimed dry weight of 860kg is very much pushing it to say the very least !
I think, to be in the same zone as the latest 997GT3 through the gears (up to around 100 mph), a Cup 260 would need a genuine 300bhp - ie, no heat soak issues :-).
I'm surprised it's under 900kg wet. That's a very good result I'd say. For what it's worth Lotus claim a 38kg reduction for the 260 Cup in it's lightest form. The Exige S is quoted as 935kg unladed on their website.I think, to be in the same zone as the latest 997GT3 through the gears (up to around 100 mph), a Cup 260 would need a genuine 300bhp - ie, no heat soak issues :-).
Regarding the straight line speed versus the 911 I'd get out there in yours and see for yourself. The power/weight ratios are virtually identical so there shouldn't be much in it. But before you do, post a few pics of your car, it looks amazing from what I can see of it on your profile. Bespoke paint job? Or vinyls?
PS, one more tip for Exige owners - get rid of your rear view mirrors, the visibity forwards is hugely improved without it. It makes a big difference and it's useless anyway.
Edited by The Pits on Tuesday 11th May 11:57
The Pits said:
Regarding the straight line speed versus the 911 I'd get out there in yours and see for yourself. The power/weight ratios are virtually identical so there shouldn't be much in it.
I think we are looking at this somewhat oddly...there are GT3's and GT3's, however, to out-run one in a straight line takes some doing, yes, 0-60 is not their strongest suit, but I really cant see you living with one after this, just because they have the same P/w does not mean that they can accelerate at the same speed, once you are moving, aero has an increasing effect and weight less so (proportionally).
Having lined up against 911 cup S's, where I can have them off the line, I still can do little about there top end even though on paper I have a significant P/W advantage.
I think this comes down to the usual track-day hero approach, if your prepared to push hard enough.
For the 3rd time scuffers I never said 'out-run' that's you.
The p/w ratios are very, very close (and that's based on the very latest 3.8 RS too) with which backs up my experience. And like it or not it actually happened so it's pretty irrelevant what you think. I'm also well aware of the effect wind resistance has, I drive a Caterham.
I knew it wouldn't be long before the old 'the porsche driver was crap' line came up. Well the same argument could be levelled against you. Maybe if you were a better driver your superior power to weight ratio would count for something and your exit speed from the corners would keep the porsches in check on the straights.
I'm not suggesting anything controversial. The 260 Cup Exige is blindingly quick for a bog standard road car. Deal with it.
The p/w ratios are very, very close (and that's based on the very latest 3.8 RS too) with which backs up my experience. And like it or not it actually happened so it's pretty irrelevant what you think. I'm also well aware of the effect wind resistance has, I drive a Caterham.
I knew it wouldn't be long before the old 'the porsche driver was crap' line came up. Well the same argument could be levelled against you. Maybe if you were a better driver your superior power to weight ratio would count for something and your exit speed from the corners would keep the porsches in check on the straights.
I'm not suggesting anything controversial. The 260 Cup Exige is blindingly quick for a bog standard road car. Deal with it.
The Pits said:
Never claimed it could 'out-run' any GT3, nor to keep up with one past 140mph. Nor even claimed it was 'as fast' in a straight line. The porker had an advantage but it was so pathetically slight that it was the source of great amusement for those inside the Lotus. The porsche does sound better yes, and it is faster but it's nowhere near £60k better. I also think a good few GT3 owners would actually prefer the Lotus to drive if they tried one, because its steering and chassis balance are actually superior. Personally, I'd pay more to own the Exige, but I know I'm alone on that one. But I'm amazed by those who only have an Exige while they're saving up for their 911. The porker really isn't all that. Surely for some disappointment is on the cards?
But it's not my intention to have a go at the 911, try as I might to make people see sense, I never win here, such is the unfathomable level of adoration for it. My point was only to reassure those good souls who've just spent north of £40k on an Exige, who strangely take a bashing on here for doing so, to know that it's a very special car at any price.
All that's holding me back from phoning the Lotus shop at the moment is the thought of what £20k's worth of tuning mods could do to my elise...
I agree sir, I've owned a Cayman S, when I was looking for the Cayman I drove the 911 C2 and the 911 C2S nowhere near as involving as a Lotus, to be honest I felt like a complete Prat driving it, everyone thinks you’re a wan*er when you’re on the road and everyone owns them in London, far too common sorry but I don't rate themBut it's not my intention to have a go at the 911, try as I might to make people see sense, I never win here, such is the unfathomable level of adoration for it. My point was only to reassure those good souls who've just spent north of £40k on an Exige, who strangely take a bashing on here for doing so, to know that it's a very special car at any price.
All that's holding me back from phoning the Lotus shop at the moment is the thought of what £20k's worth of tuning mods could do to my elise...
I can say that because I've actually owned a couple of Porsches
Boggy
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