Split personality? Dan! you know what i mean ;)

[dragstar]

Hello big-lads. Will be busy tomorrow, so im throwing this out for you to ponder/help:

Im suffering from a split personality, sometimes i feel like a 46 year old female having suffered domestic abuse and now suffering from a remegel and snicker addiction

Seriously,

Some days i ponder my favourite roads and how to take them faster or with more control and poise. I enjoy the immense handling and therefore the supergrip the advans give.

But some days, especially after buying the Drift bible, i yearn to be able to control a car around a bend in a long drift.

I've been out at night in car-parks and wide empty roundabouts and at first was scared to try and drift it. However I did it. I liked it. I was surprised at how little the car actually spins and at how little the speed can be before you can do it (in the dry).

I have got the hang of "e-brake" drifting but dont do it often (dont want excessive flatspotting) and have managed to "shift-down" drift once.

Thing is, Advans are the wrong tyres. I need a harder compound.

Im 50:50 on style of driving.. What to do?

Sell El 'beast and buy a Westfield and 200sx?

or i could buy another set of rims and put the hardest compound i can find on them.

Like you Dan, i would consider selling and buying a less quick car to learn drifting properly.

Any advice on anything? anybody have these "urges"? (buy the Drift Bible and you will ) Should i sell?
Is the elise an "acceptable" drift machine? How do i get out of this snicker addiction?

Or am i just mad?

Any opinions and related experiences etc would be nice

[DanH]

I know what you mean, I downloaded the drift bible before it was available in the UK. I love that special drift circuit they have in Japan!

I'm been tempted to book a 1st lotus day where he just puts out cones and you do a circtuit with lots of drifts all day. I don't really feel safe trying this stuff on the road =/

[Martin_S]

Buy yourself an original (RWD) Elan to complement the Elise, Dragstar.

Fitted with original, tall profile tyres, you can drift round every corner and roundabout with all four tyres squeeling in unison, perfectly balanced on the throttle. Makes even a complete gimp like me look like Juan Manuel Fangio.

A good Sprint is nearly as quick in a straight line as an Elise, no depreciation, cheap insurance and it's still a proper Lotus (more proper than the Elise, in fact, since it is Chapman generation).

[bogie]

LOL @ Drag

Dan "I'm been tempted to book a 1st lotus day where he just puts out cones and you do a circtuit with lots of drifts all day. I don't really feel safe trying this stuff on the road =/"

...thats what ive been doing the last 2 1stlotust days - just hooning around !...got another booked for April

[sydneyse]

Drag.,

Be like bogie and get forced induction on your car.... with enough power, even sticky tyres spin/smoke/drift beautifully (I know I have no problems in my Hamann M3- with 265/30/19 tyres on 19x10 rims on the rear- shod with pirelli P zero nero tyres.. drift anytime the DSC is turned off....)

[DanH]

Bogie you've managed to not have to do the high speed corner? Every time I go theres someone along who apparently needs to do it =/ Gets right on my tits, and partly why my next instruction will probably be with Don Palmer.

As to getting an original Elan, thats all well and good except that old cars aren't classic, they are just old! *













*

[DanH]

Syd, the Elise is a lot harder to drift than an M3, not only is it not so suited to breaking the backend out using power (you generally have to use weight transfer which is a lot harder), its also got all its weight in the middle which makes it keaner to spin like a tot.

Much easier to drift a RWD with a front engine and loads of power. Still I reckon if you can drift an Elise nicely then you can drift anything

[bogie]

Dan - sounds like you need to do a 2 person day with me sometime then....make sure you have some tyres that need finishing off !

[Martin_S]

DanH said:

Bogie you've managed to not have to do the high speed corner? Every time I go theres someone along who apparently needs to do it =/ Gets right on my tits, and partly why my next instruction will probably be with Don Palmer. As to getting an original Elan, thats all well and good except that old cars aren't classic, they are just old! * *

Have you ever driven one, Dan? The Elan has a better power to weight ratio than the Elise, more neutral handling, excellent brakes and a much better gearchange. Sure, it's not reliable enough to run as a high-mileage daily driver (hey, go buy a Toyota Avensis), but dynamically it can stand on its merits against any modern car - just lower grip levels 'cos of the skinny, tall profile tyres.

Gordon Murray rates it as the best lightweight sportscar ever built (he owns one, as does 340R owner and Evo Magazine publisher Harry Metcalfe, and not I suspect, because either can't afford an Elise), and if you think you know more about sportscar dynamics than Mr Murray, I suggest you go prove it!

New cars aren't better, they're just newer!

[DanH]

Bogie last time was meant to be a 2 person day like that, but Andy's bloody noble was broken yet again so ended up with a newbie as a replacement. Was pretty annoyed to have spent 2 day rate + fireman money to spend half a day on the high speed corner.

As to Elans being nice cars, yep they are - just teasing. They are still old cars though and I'm into low maintenance get in and drive. Even the Elise pisses me off with the tlc it needs. If I was to go as stripped out as an Elan I'd probably get a 7 or something properly silly

[dragstar]

interesting.

An Elan is completely out of the question seen as though my annual income is £0.00p but outgoings are

Maybe in a few years.

I couldn't sell Sir Beast-alot so i guess ill buy a set of rims with p-zeros on

At the end of the day, if you can drift an elise, you can drift anything. Nothing like jumping into the deep end!

>> Edited by dragstar on Tuesday 2nd March 17:29

[DanH]

Also whats this about an original Elan having better power to weight than an Elise? I don't buy that!

[Martin_S]

DanH said:

Also whats this about an original Elan having better power to weight than an Elise? I don't buy that!

Only had 5 mins. to look up the figures tonight, so sorry if these aren't particularly complete or accurate:

Standard Elan Sprint(heaviest version of the Elan, complete with luxuries such as full trim/carpets, polished wood dash, electric windows and a decent sized boot):
1540lb kerb weight/126bhp = 12.22 lb per horsepower

Standard Elise S1 (lightest version of the Elise):
1572lb kerb weight/118bhp = 13.32 lb per horsepower

Both sets of figures from Lotus owner's handbooks.

Many Elans have now been modified to give more than Sprint spec. power, though(145bhp is the standard 'fast road' spec. from QED), so they will compete even with the 111S on power:weight ratio. Putting that power down through 155 section tyres isn't as easy, mind, hence 0-60 and 0-100 times are probably only in the region of 6.5 seconds and 16 seconds respectively for a 145bhp car.

Next time you visit the Club Lotus show at Donington, park your Elise next to an Elan, and you'll see why it can match the kerb weight even with a fancy alluminium chassis and an alloy block engine; it's just plain fat-arsed lardy in comparison.

[dragstar]

That is interesting

I've always liked the look of them as well.

Timeless classic.

[Gfun]

Ok to start with I am now the silly side of half a bottle of wine.

Which will probably make my opinions more robust than usual.

But the driver skill is in speed - hanging the back end out is just slow - if you did it on a track you would have the pi55 ripped out of you as a prime numpty out to impress other numpties who know no better.

OK useful skill when you have cocked up but in reality if you ever get sideways it’s a cockup.

Hard compound is be good to learn on - I did hundreds of laps on hard compound slicks just to learn the feel, on swapping to soft race compounds it felt invincible but that was for a real purpose - to win (ok that was the idea but it did gain 3sec a lap).

Ditch the drift bible and learn to slide

Be happy think nice thoughts think pink.

keep it shiny side up

grin :-)

[dragstar]

Gfun said:

Ok to start with I am now the silly side of half a bottle of wine. Which will probably make my opinions more robust than usual. But the driver skill is in speed - hanging the back end out is just slow - if you did it on a track you would have the pi55 ripped out of you as a prime numpty out to impress other numpties who know no better. OK useful skill when you have cocked up but in reality if you ever get sideways it’s a cockup. Hard compound is be good to learn on - I did hundreds of laps on hard compound slicks just to learn the feel, on swapping to soft race compounds it felt invincible but that was for a real purpose - to win (ok that was the idea but it did gain 3sec a lap). Ditch the drift bible and learn to slide Be happy think nice thoughts think pink. keep it shiny side up grin :-)

G! you little beaut! "think pink"

Have to disagree with you though.

Drifting takes real skill. Having watched the dvd, there is a lot of weight shifting and behaviour changing depending on the car You have to feel the car and judge its behaviour to ascertain the best time to turn in, accelerate out and how much opposite lock to put on and for how long. Also, there are 6 different techniques, some being simple which border on "numptyness" but others requiring real skill of hell and toe, gear-shifting and throttle control. Controlling lift off over-steer and manipulating it, into a drift is very difficult!

The "drift king" spins an MR2 out after driving a sylvia (200sx?) with different characteristics. its difficult

Then there is the fun factor! Drifting is immensely fun Sideways may not get you kudos around a track or be the quickest, but i'd rather have fun.

I dont particularly care whether other track-dayers think im a plonker. Also perfectly drifting around a corner is as rewarding as taking it at full pelt IMHO

Like i say, im split 50:50. I love drifting but also driving hard and fast around corners without messing about.

I think you either "get" drifting or you dont. If we ever meet up for that drink, Skinner!, then i'll lend it to you and see for yourself.

>> Edited by dragstar on Tuesday 2nd March 22:18

[Gfun]

Beginning o think I’m a purist, lap times are my god and nothing else is accepted

OK its fun to show boat and have done it myself – one appreciative look and I am daft enough to welly it an hang the back end out – pure peacock

But if you are going to own the best handling car on the planet then it deserves your respect – its not a Clio with a big engine it’s art – in its basic factory finish it will always out perform you.

Every day I drive the Elise it reminds me just how much more I can learn – it really is pure joy. Every corner just says faster next time.

Its balance is perfect for the classic 4-wheel slide.

so when is this manc meet ?

[DanH]

Gfun - racing drivers use small controlled amounts of drifing ALL the time. It helps them position the car in the corner. They aren't the big lairy show off slides but its the same technique and requires similar skills.

Anyway speed is pretty dull imho. I'd rather have perfect control.

[gfun]

DanH said:

Gfun - racing drivers use small controlled amounts of drifing ALL the time. It helps them position the car in the corner. They aren't the big lairy show off slides but its the same technique and requires similar skills. Anyway speed is pretty dull imho. I'd rather have perfect control.

Errm thats what I said - I belive we could end up violentley aggreeing with each other.

[dragstar]

Have you been drinking throughout the night?

Good-lad!

You may be a purist and that's fine. I think by drifting, i'd be learning another aspect of car control, therefore using the best handling car to its fullest extent.

Horses for courses!

And about that drink. It'll have to wait till after my exams now. I've stopped drinking for the duration