trying to understand Elise versions

[saaby93]

1996 Elise S1 is easy
2001 S2 is easy too
2004 S3 Toyota engine, rear clam, gap under the front clam spine
2010 S4 no front indicators, higher engine cover
I've been looking for S3/S4 on lotuscars website. They refer to 2011 model



edited to add years

Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 28th April 22:53

[simsith]

wow slow down there, ok s1 easy s2 easy s3 only just launched and s4 some way off maybe this is why you are finding it hard

[John D.]

I don't understand the S4 either.

[simsith]

the latest 2010 elise has blinkers, they are at the bottom of the main light unit, they are a thin l shape, as for the higher boot there are many reasons this could be like it is, new engine or something.

[Eat it up]

For the toyota you have:
Pre 06 manual throttle normal bulb type rear lights.Bridgestone re040 tyres.

Post 06 FBY(electronic throttle) led style rear lights Yoko Ad07 tyres, Sport racer adds (Exige springs,front mounted oil coolers,probax seats,traction control.). Elise s varient 5speed box 135bhp.Added to the line up.

08 to 2011 incorporates new black/red style dash, three shift lights,New federal style dash, Airbags x2. Canbus diagnostics and Variable traction control,launch control(Exige pp and cup cars+211).New style Key incorporating the alarm unit. Introduction of the elise sc.

(2011 model New 1.6 litre vvti engine and 6 speed gearbox,Daylight led running lights and indicator's built into the headlights,Cruise control only for the 1.6litre Elise new design alloy wheels+ new forged versions also)( New front and rear clamshell's new grill's and rear diffuser+daylight running lights. The new body style also incorporates the other 2zz-ge engine as well.
There are various other items that i forgot to list but this should help.

Edited by Eat it up on Thursday 29th April 00:01

[bogie]

and about another 20 different "special editions" to choose from

[kambites]

Broadly speaking, the Elise progression went:

Elise S1: 120bhp K-series
Elise S1 111S: 140bhp VVC (variable valve control) K-series
Elise S1 Sport XXX: XXXbhp VHPD (very high performance derivative) K-series

Elise S2: 120bhp K-series
Elise S2 111 and 111S: 160bhp VVC K-series
Elise S2 Sport XXX: XXXbhp VHPD K-series
Elise S2 111R: 190bhp VVT Toyota
Elise S2 S: 140bhp Toyota
Elise S2 R: 190bp VVT Toyota (renamed 111R)
Elise S2 SC: 220bhp supercharged Toyota

Then there is the MY11 face-lift which consists of:

Elise S2 S: 140bhp (1.6) Toyota
Elise S2 R: 190bhp VVT Toyota
Elise S2 SC: 220bhp supercharged Toyota


Each model year has brought gradual improvements to things like NVH and build quality as well as extra weight. The only single big step in weight coincided with the switch from K-series to Toyota engines. Toyota powered cars also have a brake servo and ABS which the K-series cars don't. Later Toyota cars have a DBW throttle. Early setups of both the DBW system and the servo assisted brakes were rubbish.


There were a whole load of special editions too, based off the various models above but often without the model designator.

The current facelift is generally reckoned to be a relatively short-lived stop-gap to keep sales up while they develop a VVA (the Evora's platform) based replacement for the Elise but that might be wishful thinking.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 29th April 08:29

[Grinnders]

And the debate continues on whether the new Elise is really a new Elise or an S2 release 2.

With other marques when cosmetic changes are made but nothing fundamental (including the introduction of new/improved engines) they are just known as the facelift version. I can't work out why people continue to classify this as an S3... maybe it's just us S2 owners that don't want to admit we don't have the latest version.....

Do you think it will get discussed by Brown/Cameron/Clegg as it's the answer we really want to know?

[kambites]

Grinnders said:

With other marques when cosmetic changes are made but nothing fundamental (including the introduction of new/improved engines) they are just known as the facelift version. I can't work out why people continue to classify this as an S3... maybe it's just us S2 owners that don't want to admit we don't have the latest version.....

Well look at Lotus' history. What was the fundamental change between the S1, S2, S3 and S4 Elan, for example? For that matter, what was the fundamental change between the S1 and S2 Elise?

[kazste]

In order to halt any arguments starting (again) I would like to add the following.
Elise s. Is fantastic.
Elise r. Is fantastic.
Elise sc. Is fantastic.

S1 is fantastic even if the drivers spend more time calling us girly for having s2's than actually driving them.

[John D.]

kambites said:

Grinnders said:

With other marques when cosmetic changes are made but nothing fundamental (including the introduction of new/improved engines) they are just known as the facelift version. I can't work out why people continue to classify this as an S3... maybe it's just us S2 owners that don't want to admit we don't have the latest version.....

Well look at Lotus' history. What was the fundamental change between the S1, S2, S3 and S4 Elan, for example? For that matter, what was the fundamental change between the S1 and S2 Elise?

The tub is different is it not? That is why the cills are lower and narrow on the S2 (forgive me if I am talking bks). The bodywork and styling was changed to a greater degree than with the latest model too.

I agree with Grinders that it is odd that people refer to the new car as an S3. Lotus themselves do not as far as I can tell. After a quick scan of the blurb on their website it is simply referred to a the "2011 model year Elise" (S3 is at least a bit more snappy).

[kambites]

John D. said:

The tub is different is it not? That is why the cills are lower and narrow on the S2 (forgive me if I am talking bks). The bodywork and styling was changed to a greater degree than with the latest model too.

I agree with Grinders that it is odd that people refer to the new car as an S3. Lotus themselves do not as far as I can tell. After a quick scan of the blurb on their website it is simply referred to a the "2011 model year Elise" (S3 is at least a bit more snappy).

The S2 uses the VX220 tub (or something very similar to it) which, yes, has slightly lower sills. You could certainly argue that the change between K-series and Toyota S2s was as significant (ignoring the styling) as that between the K-series S1 and K-series S2, though.

Out of interest, have Lotus ever actually called the S1 and S2 by those names in anything official?

Going back in history a bit, I don't know what changed between the series of the Elan, but it certainly wasn't much.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 29th April 11:47

[Monkey boy 1]

it's easier to refer to them as Model years rather than series.

I still don't know why all those in PH land have called the MY2011 Elise a series 3.
Why didn't the PH massive call the MY2010 Exige a Series 3 Exige ? Front clam & rear wing change from the previous version and a roof scoop which has been moved all over the place.

At work we just refer to them by their project name.

[John D.]

kambites said:

You could certainly argue that the change between K-series and Toyota S2s was as significant (ignoring the styling) as that between the K-series S1 and K-series S2, though.

You could but I would argue that to the average man in the street the difference between the S1 and S2 bodywork makes a far move obvious and relevant difference than which engine is contained inside. Hence the model name change.

Where as the 2011 model is much more similar in appearance to the S2 that went before it.

kambites said:

Out of interest, have Lotus ever actually called the S1 and S2 by those names in anything official?

Good point! I don't know. Assumed they had as, well, everyone does

[saaby93]

Why wasnt the Toyota change back in 2004 (inc clam changes etc) considered to be a version change by PH

[Grinnders]

Monkey boy 1 said:

Why didn't the PH massive call the MY2010 Exige a Series 3 Exige ?

That is an excellent point.

How come indeed? Is it because it had more press coverage and that (one might say ill-informed) press started the whole S3 thing? Lotus do seem to be playing the Eco card with the whole CO2 emissions thing on the 1.6 which (obviously) didn't come up at all with the face lifted Exige and so had less of a marketing angle to it...

.. so maybe the press didn't notice the Exige mods and hence cause the whole S2 v S3 debate back then.

[kambites]

saaby93 said:

Why wasnt the Toyota change back in 2004 (inc clam changes etc) considered to be a version change by PH

Probably 'cos it looked almost identical.

Also, the K-series and Toyota models were produced in parallel for a year or so, so there was no clean break.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 29th April 17:32

[doggydave]

So judging by all I have just read can someone clarify. Is the MY2011 model Elise, that started production in early 2010, the S7 or S8. I have lost count (I really must get myself a life).
Entertaining read though.

[Grinnders]

kambites said:

Probably 'cos it looked almost identical.

Well in that case the indicators have disappeared (into the headlights). Is that enough for a new version?

Exige MY2010 = restyled front end, and new larger, low drag rear wing (known as series 2 facelift)
Elise MY2011 = restyled front end, restyled back end.....

.. How wrong I must be.... Obviously a series 3 then!





















I don't really care by the way because I definitely own the second version of the Exige. I'll leave it to the Elise owners to sort out

[kambites]

I don't care either, because I think anything with a Toyota engine in it is rubbish*.

* OK, that's a slight exaggeration

I must admit I still haven't seen the new one in the flesh to know how different it looks from the old one.

Edited by kambites on Friday 30th April 08:39