Controlling the beast
Discussion
Morning Gents
I had my first bit of back end exitement this morning when i noticed that the engine was up to temperature just before I exited a round about and so I promptly floored it for some morning exitement. As I did the back end flew out but I managed to save it. I'm not sure quite what I did but it worked. I know I should go on a Lutus 1st day and learn how to drive it properly but untill I do what is the correct technique to get it back pointing the right direction? I heard somewhere that takeing your foot off the excelerator makes the back end light and so makes the problem worse. Is this true?
I had my first bit of back end exitement this morning when i noticed that the engine was up to temperature just before I exited a round about and so I promptly floored it for some morning exitement. As I did the back end flew out but I managed to save it. I'm not sure quite what I did but it worked. I know I should go on a Lutus 1st day and learn how to drive it properly but untill I do what is the correct technique to get it back pointing the right direction? I heard somewhere that takeing your foot off the excelerator makes the back end light and so makes the problem worse. Is this true?
The correct thing to do varies on so many factors involved in the conditions you find yourself in that it is impossible to rely on some set rules that you read on the Internet! Particularly when you don't know the expertise of the person who gave you the advice (i.e. I am no expert and probably no more experienced than you, so don't take my advice on opposite lock and lift-off oversteer!).
Instinct counts for a lot, and got you out of your little scrape, but I'll tell you what I do: I never accelerate hard unless I'm in a straight line and I never get myself into that situation in the first place. That particular technique has kept my back-end in control and my only car damage free for three years now.
Instinct counts for a lot, and got you out of your little scrape, but I'll tell you what I do: I never accelerate hard unless I'm in a straight line and I never get myself into that situation in the first place. That particular technique has kept my back-end in control and my only car damage free for three years now.
beechy said:
Morning Gents I heard somewhere that takeing your foot off the excelerator makes the back end light and so makes the problem worse. Is this true?
taking your foot off might make it worse but if you keep your foot down and don't control it you're you'll have an even bigger off.
I've had a couple of 'moments' in mine and whenever I try to correct I always tend to over do it and fishtail a bit....I 've done a first lotus day but I feel another one coming soon
S Works said:
Oh god, just agreed a price on one and now I'm cacking myself about picking it up...
Bonce's advice sounds very, very sensible. I will be treating it with muchos respect.
I felt the same.
I did a Lotus experience at Silverstone. That brief encounter taught me to respect the car for what it is, a light, mid-engined, rwd sportscar.
Don't be frightened of it, as Bonce says if you treat it with respect you'll be fine. I've only had the back step out once, self induced experiment on a Sunday morning, greasy roundabout and a set of tyres at the end of their usable life. It will bite!
Save the lead foot for a suitable airfield, enjoy the handling and keep smiling.
Regards, Neil
I would recommend the Lotus Driver Training Day as they deal with all of the handling limits of the car.
I would comment on your question as follows:-
Re the oversteer it really depends upon the speed you are travelling at when you start the oversteer.
If you approach a corner hard and turn in at the cars limit if you come of the gas the back end will break out very fast due to weight coming off the rear and the dynamics of the car. In a case were you feel you are near the limit of the car or you in mid corner never come off the gas fully in one go, gradually decrease the gas otherwise the the car will have a tendancy to drift at the rear or even spin.
If you exit a corner under full throttle and you experience oversteer back off the gas slightly not fully and turn into the direction of the oversteer.
Remember oversteer is not the fastest way through a corner even though it looks impressive. The fastest way through any corner is fast approach, slow, select correct exit gear on approach, feather gas with car at limit of grip through the corner then full gas on exit of corner as car is straight.
Mark
I would comment on your question as follows:-
Re the oversteer it really depends upon the speed you are travelling at when you start the oversteer.
If you approach a corner hard and turn in at the cars limit if you come of the gas the back end will break out very fast due to weight coming off the rear and the dynamics of the car. In a case were you feel you are near the limit of the car or you in mid corner never come off the gas fully in one go, gradually decrease the gas otherwise the the car will have a tendancy to drift at the rear or even spin.
If you exit a corner under full throttle and you experience oversteer back off the gas slightly not fully and turn into the direction of the oversteer.
Remember oversteer is not the fastest way through a corner even though it looks impressive. The fastest way through any corner is fast approach, slow, select correct exit gear on approach, feather gas with car at limit of grip through the corner then full gas on exit of corner as car is straight.
Mark
dragstar said:
how do you overcome understeer, to provoke oversteer.
Accelerate. If you have enough torque (enough throttle and in a low enough gear wrt the available grip) you will find you can drive through the understeer hump and progress on to oversteer. Takes somne confidence though since the understeer gets worse initially as you start to wind on the power. Also be prepared for a fairly abrupt transition from understeer to oversteer, easy to be caught out here. Basically something you only want to experiment with somewhere safe where you are not going to get involved with other people and/or scenery.
the art of opposite lock is the first thing to master for these situations (or drive very gently on bends etc.) IMHO. Best done on a wide track, but achievable on a big roundabout when quiet apparently.
If you think the elise is bad, try my car - keeping the rear end following the front is proper tricky.
:-O
If you think the elise is bad, try my car - keeping the rear end following the front is proper tricky.
:-O
aromaT said:
If you think the elise is bad, try my car - keeping the rear end following the front is proper tricky.
:-O
Yep, respect is due, AromaT.
I have driven several non-power steered Griffiths, and quite frankly, they scared me. The steering was so heavy that I wasn't convinced I'd have the strength to wrestle it back into line fast enough if it got out of shape (only being a 15 stone weakling and everything). I assume the Tamora is much lighter with power steering, but even so, rather you than me, mate!
Seriously hairy motors!
beechy said:
Morning Gents
I had my first bit of back end exitement this morning when i noticed that the engine was up to temperature just before I exited a round about and so I promptly floored it for some morning exitement. As I did the back end flew out but I managed to save it. I'm not sure quite what I did but it worked. I know I should go on a Lutus 1st day and learn how to drive it properly but untill I do what is the correct technique to get it back pointing the right direction? I heard somewhere that takeing your foot off the excelerator makes the back end light and so makes the problem worse. Is this true?
Beechy (and S Works): Worry ye not!
The Elise is a complete pussycat, and will look after you fine so long as you don't do something really stupid.
The normal, instinctive reaction to the back end stepping out on the road is to momentarily lift the throttle, and twitch the steering into the slide. Unless you have seriously overcooked it, it will simply snap back into line and you can carry on as if nothing has happened. If you bottle, lift off completely and stay off the throttle, the car may spin, but your instincts and reactions will see you right, I'm sure.
Practice on the exits from quiet roundabouts, and you'll be deliberately provoking powerslides for the simple joy of scaring your girlfriend witless in no time!
I have experienced both under and oversteer in my elise. Both seem easy enough to handle using instict but I wouldnt like to 'play' with it. The first time it happens you realise that you could very easily bite off more than you can chew 
I think that on Her Majesties throughfares one should always edge on the side of caution. Look carefully for damp patches, camber and pin it only when all four wheels point in the same direction
.
I think that on Her Majesties throughfares one should always edge on the side of caution. Look carefully for damp patches, camber and pin it only when all four wheels point in the same direction
.
poptosis said:
pin it only when all four wheels point in the same direction
Heresy!!
It's a Lotus! Those nice men from Hethel spent an awful lot of time and experience making a toy for you that will go round twisty bits faster than almost anything else on the road, and there's you saying 'only pin it in a straight line'?!
Go and buy a TVR right this minute, young sir!
NO NO Im sorry, I will redeem myself at the next rounabout I come to by sliding gracefully around it at 45 degrees whilst waving to the ladies.
I can assure you I'm all for driving with enthusiasm I'm just not keen on climbing trees in my first month of ownership.
Point is well taken though
I can assure you I'm all for driving with enthusiasm I'm just not keen on climbing trees in my first month of ownership.
Point is well taken though
Roundabout exits are actually where a huge number of Elises get stacked. The main issue is that you get a camber change, and most people over correct when the back goes light and end up 'tank slapping' into a barrier as a result. Best thing to do is look at cambers before you put your foot down and think about it a bit. Also feed the power in and don't just gun it.
The other obvious way to get into trouble is to gun the throttle whilst pulling out to overtake etc.
I'm no racing driver but I cover over 30K miles a year for the last 16years of driving. Had all sorts of regular but sporty mainstreem production cars and I have to say the Elise is a dream when it gets out of shape versus the Golfs, BMW's and other GTI production types I've had. It only ever steps out when I push it and as long as you know it can happen it is easy to either lift and straighten or keep on pushing it round if safe to.
I agree that some roundabouts have the "camber" issue which may help flick the car but many do not. A little sideways roundabout exit can be fantastic and controlled. Go to Milton Keynes its full of empty roundabouts to practice on (and legally).
In the wet you can practice getting a little out of shape at lower speeds so in the dry its not such a panic when it happens. Although in the dry its harder to do on regular roads.
;-)
I agree that some roundabouts have the "camber" issue which may help flick the car but many do not. A little sideways roundabout exit can be fantastic and controlled. Go to Milton Keynes its full of empty roundabouts to practice on (and legally).
In the wet you can practice getting a little out of shape at lower speeds so in the dry its not such a panic when it happens. Although in the dry its harder to do on regular roads.
;-)
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