How much quicker is a Honda S1 than a 111R?
Discussion
Is there any massive real world difference?
I'm contemplating another Elise as a daily driver (used to have a standard S1).
There's not a massive price difference between a Honda'd S1 and an early 111R.
In theory I know about the comfort benefits of the S2 (although I haven't driven one yet) but would I end up regretting a lack of poke?
I'm contemplating another Elise as a daily driver (used to have a standard S1).
There's not a massive price difference between a Honda'd S1 and an early 111R.
In theory I know about the comfort benefits of the S2 (although I haven't driven one yet) but would I end up regretting a lack of poke?
At risk of getting the usual /your bias/ etc response....
it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 10th December 16:23
Scuffers said:
At risk of getting the usual /your bias/ etc response....
it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
It that the dyno for the 111R or S spec engine? Shape looks right but bhp a bit low?it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 10th December 16:23
Edited by Vlad. on Thursday 10th December 16:38
Scuffers said:
At risk of getting the usual /your bias/ etc response....
it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
That's what I thought.it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 10th December 16:23
Head (and more importantly Mrs NDT) says 111R
Heart says S1 Honda....
still not exactly close....
dyno plots
what you need to keep in mind here is that the green plot is the very base install, and it;s still got more power/torque than the supercharged 111R, then look at the tunned pr supercharged Honda options....
dyno plots
what you need to keep in mind here is that the green plot is the very base install, and it;s still got more power/torque than the supercharged 111R, then look at the tunned pr supercharged Honda options....
Vlad. said:
Scuffers said:
At risk of getting the usual /your bias/ etc response....
it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
It that the dyno for the 111R or S spec engine? Shape looks right but bhp a bit low?it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 10th December 16:23
Edited by Vlad. on Thursday 10th December 16:38
NDT said:
Vlad. said:
Scuffers said:
At risk of getting the usual /your bias/ etc response....
it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
It that the dyno for the 111R or S spec engine? Shape looks right but bhp a bit low?it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 10th December 16:23
Edited by Vlad. on Thursday 10th December 16:38
Where are you based NDT?
Might be worth having an ask round to see if anyone has the cars in question etc.
I have an S2 Honda, and it's used everyday. I firmly believe you could pick up a Honda s2 for ~15k, but it wouldn't hang around very long.
I love mine, and the sound is lovely once your a little higher in the revs.
I think the Honda would be in a different league to a 111r.
Might be worth having an ask round to see if anyone has the cars in question etc.
I have an S2 Honda, and it's used everyday. I firmly believe you could pick up a Honda s2 for ~15k, but it wouldn't hang around very long.
I love mine, and the sound is lovely once your a little higher in the revs.
I think the Honda would be in a different league to a 111r.
As I can hang onto 111Rs in a boggo engined S1 (until the straights!) then I'd have thought a decently set up Honda would eat it for breakfast.
What you buy really ought to take into account your intended use though. i'd guess from your current fleet that the Elise would be an occasional/track car in which case take the Honda S1.
I have to agree with Suffers re the power delivery of the 111R - I don't like it but you can get that smoothed out by a visit to Sinclairs in Romford.
What you buy really ought to take into account your intended use though. i'd guess from your current fleet that the Elise would be an occasional/track car in which case take the Honda S1.
I have to agree with Suffers re the power delivery of the 111R - I don't like it but you can get that smoothed out by a visit to Sinclairs in Romford.
Scuffers said:
NDT said:
Vlad. said:
Scuffers said:
At risk of getting the usual /your bias/ etc response....
it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
It that the dyno for the 111R or S spec engine? Shape looks right but bhp a bit low?it's not even remotely close, ignoring the raw numbers, the Dyno plots,, the additional 100+Kg's etc.....
Edited by Scuffers on Thursday 10th December 16:23
Edited by Vlad. on Thursday 10th December 16:38
I'd imagine that the Honda is a LOT faster, but also potentially because the sort of person that decides to to a full-on engine transplant isn't going to be a shrinking violet about it, but be doing it *for* a substantial power / performance / torque advantage over the factory cars.
Also each Honda car is likely to be different as they're personal conversions done because the owner wants the car *their* way and not Lotus' way. You'll need to factor that in - what you really like in the Elise may not be a priority for the previous owner who Honda'd the car, or it may be perfection. Whatever goes - the market is smaller, the cars move faster, and you'll have to be on the ball and quick with your cash.
There's a car I've been watching on SELOC - been reading the threads the owner wrote on the mods he's done - it's a black S2 Elise with a couple of Exige bits and a Honda motor. With a supercharger. And a charge cooler. It's a f
king monster and it's on sale for the money I'm looking to spend on a replacement Exige S... very tempting. I probably wouldn't be able to insure the thing just after a write-off accident though, regardless of the other 18 trouble-free years of driving 
You'll get much more choice with the factory car due to volumes. But they won't perform like the Honda, even the better-built later cars PLUS a supercharger will have trouble living with a Honda car because you're talking of early-car conversions, which are based on much lighter cars to begin with.
If you can get a Honda car that's been lovingly looked after and all those early-Elise build quality problems worked out, then it'll probably be the most rewarding drive of them all. However if build quality, watertightness, etc. are big deals to you, then it's usually a case of buying the latest car you can afford (Lotus build quality improving year on year very well indeed), or getting a VX220 turbo and tuning it up a bit. If you can see past the badge and don't mind the looks, and understand the compromise Lotus made in building it, then they're great value for money. I loved mine
Also each Honda car is likely to be different as they're personal conversions done because the owner wants the car *their* way and not Lotus' way. You'll need to factor that in - what you really like in the Elise may not be a priority for the previous owner who Honda'd the car, or it may be perfection. Whatever goes - the market is smaller, the cars move faster, and you'll have to be on the ball and quick with your cash.
There's a car I've been watching on SELOC - been reading the threads the owner wrote on the mods he's done - it's a black S2 Elise with a couple of Exige bits and a Honda motor. With a supercharger. And a charge cooler. It's a f
king monster and it's on sale for the money I'm looking to spend on a replacement Exige S... very tempting. I probably wouldn't be able to insure the thing just after a write-off accident though, regardless of the other 18 trouble-free years of driving You'll get much more choice with the factory car due to volumes. But they won't perform like the Honda, even the better-built later cars PLUS a supercharger will have trouble living with a Honda car because you're talking of early-car conversions, which are based on much lighter cars to begin with.
If you can get a Honda car that's been lovingly looked after and all those early-Elise build quality problems worked out, then it'll probably be the most rewarding drive of them all. However if build quality, watertightness, etc. are big deals to you, then it's usually a case of buying the latest car you can afford (Lotus build quality improving year on year very well indeed), or getting a VX220 turbo and tuning it up a bit. If you can see past the badge and don't mind the looks, and understand the compromise Lotus made in building it, then they're great value for money. I loved mine
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