Europa

[Ecosseven]

If I bought a recent Europa S (197 bhp model), how much would it cost to up the power to around 250-260 bhp and what is involved? Will the gearbox, brakes and suspension cope with the extra power? Is the engine robust enough to cope with the increased power and still be reliable? I like torque in my daily driver and the rarity of the Europa appeals.

What are the main differences between the S model (197 bhp) and the SE model (225bhp) apart from the increase in power?

All the best.

[Herman Toothrot]

Very little difference except a remap, like the VX220T and the VXR.

[TIPPER]

The SE appearas to have more leather inside. I'd talk to Randy (see the other postrunning on here at the mo about Europas) about power increases as he's been doing interesting things with the Europa. Thorney also have a lot of experience with the same engine in the VX220 so worth digging around on the VX forums as well as here and Seloc.

[Winstar]

Ecosseven said:

If I bought a recent Europa S (197 bhp model), how much would it cost to up the power to around 250-260 bhp and what is involved? Will the gearbox, brakes and suspension cope with the extra power? Is the engine robust enough to cope with the increased power and still be reliable? I like torque in my daily driver and the rarity of the Europa appeals.

What are the main differences between the S model (197 bhp) and the SE model (225bhp) apart from the increase in power?

All the best.

A lot of VX's run about 240 - 250 bhp as it's as simple as fitting a sports cat and remapping buy Courtenay's or TMS. The only components that need upgrading are the brakes in the form of some better pads like Mintex 1144's or pagids.

However the Europa uses a Lotus ECU that hasn't been 'cracked' to the same extent as the Bosch one used in the VX., so IIRC can't be easily remapped by aftermarket tuners

[cyberface]

With all that power you'll probably want to look at alternative tyre choices, which means a front wheel swap - like the VX220, the Europa uses 17" fronts with virtually no choice of tyre. Changing to the Exige sizes allows the use of many more tyres (same prob with the VXT, I ended up going for TD 17/16 wheels with Toyo 888s). Depends on how you're going to use it, of course - as a pure GT car the standard tyres are just fine.

[footsoldier]

The problem is not the engine, but the cooling of it. It's not such an issue in the VX220, but seems to limit the Europa to c225 reliably, (a bit more with Milltek exhaust, which seems to help with cooling). I don't think Thorney were ever able to crack this issue, and they have no problem with getting more from same engine in VX

If you're buying 197 car from a dealer, tell them you want the Lotus 225 upgrade included - £500 I think if you pay for it,, costs nothing to them. I was offered upgrade by a couple as part of deal, but ended up buying a 225 privately instead.

New Lotus map is still not very good, but better and I think that Randy (Hoffmans) is working on something at the moment.

[Bourj]

Interested in what you are saying about cooling issues on the Europa. When I was looking in to buying a Europa I regularly checked out the VX220 website for possible issues.

Coolant tank, radiator and fittings breakages seem pretty regular. I have read a lot about issues with these on VX’s and Elise based vehicles. I know on VX’s they put covers over the coolant tank to protect the tank from sunrays. On the Europa a cover is fitted to the coolant tank.

However after a run the other day I found the temp was up to 96 degrees. I left the car running until it cooled to 92. Turned off engine and the cooling fan went off. Went back a minute later and had a look at the temp and it was up to 102. On other vehicles my cooling fan keeps running even after the key is removed from the ignition. (Well when hot) This doesn’t happen on the Europa.

Anyway I thought water could only rise above 100 degrees if it is under pressure. So that must mean the complete cooling system is under pressure. Hence could this be why parts of the cooling system can fail.

That said I have not read about any issues with the Europa.

[cyberface]

Bourj said:

Anyway I thought water could only rise above 100 degrees if it is under pressure. So that must mean the complete cooling system is under pressure. Hence could this be why parts of the cooling system can fail.

I thought *all* production (watercooled) car coolant systems used water under pressure? Never heard of a car running ambient water before. My old VXT handbook said that the water temp was fine up to 116˚C (though it never got that hot in practice other than once when the rad top hose popped off).

This is the reason why it's usually recommended to let the car cool down before taking the radiator cap off - depressurising the system usually results in immediate boil and the steam will scald you.

[cheeky_chops]

Bourj said:

However after a run the other day I found the temp was up to 96 degrees. I left the car running until it cooled to 92. Turned off engine and the cooling fan went off. Went back a minute later and had a look at the temp and it was up to 102. On other vehicles my cooling fan keeps running even after the key is removed from the ignition. (Well when hot) This doesn’t happen on the Europa.

Anyway I thought water could only rise above 100 degrees if it is under pressure. So that must mean the complete cooling system is under pressure. Hence could this be why parts of the cooling system can fail.

All sounds 100% normal to me chap. The fan on my VXT will continue running if the ignition is switched off but wont start if the ignition is switched on. I find the temp will shoot up if you switch the car off for a few mins...

[loopylea]

Ecosseven said:

If I bought a recent Europa S (197 bhp model), how much would it cost to up the power to around 250-260 bhp and what is involved? Will the gearbox, brakes and suspension cope with the extra power? Is the engine robust enough to cope with the increased power and still be reliable? I like torque in my daily driver and the rarity of the Europa appeals.

What are the main differences between the S model (197 bhp) and the SE model (225bhp) apart from the increase in power?

All the best.

The Europa SE has the VXR turbo (larger than the S) and smoothes out the power delivery, it does not cure the ECU map issues but masks them. The map is still not 100%.
It has stiffer springs, AP 4 pot brakes and the Exige anti rollbar (stiffer than the S)
And of course the larger wider wheels/tyres and full leather interior.

I have been told by numerous people that the engine will easily handle 250/260 bhp (even 280) but cooling is a big issue. Chargecooling seems to be the way to go.

I have found that for the S derivative better brake pads, Nitrons and different wheels (sizes) and tyres help. I think these would be a good idea along with power increases to ensure it can be properly (and more safely) exploited.

A replacement ECU (being developed by Randy/TDI) is in the pipeline along with a chargecooling kit.


Lisa

[dan1758]

I have a Europa S that i track on a regular basis and have never had a problem with overheating. I think thats down to how you treat the car when you come off track and let it cool down with the engine running etc, etc. The car is capable of upsetting more than a few Exige owners on track and all for less money, a winning combination in my book.

I took advice from a few people who already had suspension, wheel, tyres and brake modifications done on these cars before having them installed (the ever wise and helpful Loopylea being one) and have to say that it was money well spent in my opinion as it completely changed the handling making it more sure footed through the twistys.

I have the 225 ECU fitted and the power delivery is a little lumpy but that doesn't detract from the overall driving pleasure the car provides as you soon become used to it. I am, however, looking forward to the sort of upgraded ECU that is in the pipeline. It should allow a great deal of potential to be unleashed from what is a solid engine within a great car.

[footsoldier]

Lisa

I called Randy today, but is on holiday. Any ideas when ECU/map is going to be ready?

Thanks

[loopylea]

footsoldier said:

Lisa

I called Randy today, but is on holiday. Any ideas when ECU/map is going to be ready?

Thanks

Hi There,

I spoke to TDI at Donnington a few weeks ago (they are doing the develpoment with Chris), at the time I was told that they were waiting for one componenet to do with throttle control.
The ECU will then be tested in the road going version.
They are determined to get this absolutely right before offering it as a product. They estimated a "few weeks".
It will be a "plug n play" replacement.
It has certainly got my attention!!!

Lisa

[footsoldier]

Cheers Lisa. I've been trying to decide about keeping Europa or swapping for something else (just for a change). I think big brakes and "big" ECU over the winter might well do the trick and let me keep it!

[loopylea]

footsoldier said:

Cheers Lisa. I've been trying to decide about keeping Europa or swapping for something else (just for a change). I think big brakes and "big" ECU over the winter might well do the trick and let me keep it!

Yeah I know what you mean, I usually only keep my cars for about 9 months, then usually kinda feel like a change.
The Europa has held my interest (2 years so far!) because I seem to be on the slippery sloap of modifying it to my personal needs.
I guess that's part of the 'Lotus ownership experience'.... Oh boy....

[Bourj]

I would like to upgrade the brakes on our S. Whats the best option for non track use. Hence want good initial bite and stopping power. However not too worried about fade and wear rates.

Any advice on Price and retailers would be great.

(Thanks for reassurance on cooling. Been reading up on cooling systems, but still need a physics lesson! I guess the best advice is to allow the car to cool to about 90 degrees before switching off.)

Edited by Bourj on Thursday 3rd September 10:51

[Tucker1]

Really following this thread with interest. I've got one of the later press cars with the full leather etc which was then owned by Russell Gibbons from Lotus Sport. Its got the Lotus 225 map and I believe the pre cat removed by Courtenay and thats it.

I contacted Thorney some time back about a full Miltek system and remap to suit. He was upfront about the current ECU being difficult to deal with, pointed out they have had problems so may need the car a while and didnt seem keen on taking my money to work on the car at this point. Russell said the same as when he owned the car had spoken to numerous people, stayed with the Lotus map and enjoyed the car as it was.

I'm still interested in tuning the car although its ok, albiet not perfect as it is. I use it every day so don't want to compremise it and only do work if its definetely going to improve it by a margin. If the stock ECU is properly cracked or a replacement option comes up I'm very interested in turning an already fanastic car into something even better.

Edited by Tucker1 on Thursday 3rd September 12:11

Edited by Tucker1 on Thursday 3rd September 12:13

[C43]

I usually change cars quite often but like the others here I am enjoying moding the Europa to my taste. You can certainly get a lot out of these cars. For my money the best mod is the £150 suspension geometry change done by Thorney. takes a lot of understeer out of the car.

I think the cooling issue is only the difficulty of fitting a charge cooler and hence getitng over 260hp. I am running about 250hp with an intercooler and use the car every day with no difficulties of overheating. If we could get a chargecooler on the car then 300hp+ would be easy possible.

I used to run the Mintex 1144 pads and they are cheap and a small improvement. I have now fitted the big AP kit. The APs are a good step better in all areas (as you would expect for the moment), but my ABS is now playing up. I don't think it is related as I believe my RR wheel speed sensor has gone down but nor sure.

Like everyone else I would go for a better map. In the dry the map shape is not a problem but in the wet it makes partial throttle oversteer a little difficult to hold accurately!!

cheers

C43

[dan1758]

Bourj said:

I would like to upgrade the brakes on our S. Whats the best option for non track use. Hence want good initial bite and stopping power. However not too worried about fade and wear rates.

Any advice on Price and retailers would be great.

(Thanks for reassurance on cooling. Been reading up on cooling systems, but still need a physics lesson! I guess the best advice is to allow the car to cool to about 90 degrees before switching off.)

Edited by Bourj on Thursday 3rd September 10:51

I would recommend the AP brake upgrade even for non track use. It makes a huge difference to the car. Got mine done by Thorney Motorsport but had it done as part of a bigger package so not sure about prices.

Edited by dan1758 on Thursday 3rd September 16:35

[footsoldier]

C43 said:

If we could get a chargecooler on the car then 300hp+ would be easy possible.
cheers

C43

Definitely worth waiting for - there won't be much faster day-to-day than a Europa set-up properly with 300hp+ and enough brakes to stop it.

If Hoffman's/TDI crack it, that's where mine is going for its winter holidays!