Discussion
Apologies in advance for posting this thread, no doubt it's been done to death! (I did try a search, but didn't find anything specific)
I am considering either of the above in our fleet. Given the choice, I would go for the S2, but there is such a price difference between equivalent spec/age cars that it's hard not to consider the Vauxhall...
Is the extra premium really worth the extra? IYHO of course
Thanks
Tuan
I am considering either of the above in our fleet. Given the choice, I would go for the S2, but there is such a price difference between equivalent spec/age cars that it's hard not to consider the Vauxhall...
Is the extra premium really worth the extra? IYHO of course
Thanks
Tuan
Oh dear. Well, the answer all depends on what you want out of a car, frankly, and is bound to start a war!
If it's your money and you're buying new, be prepared to loose a bundle if you get a VX220 (although the turbo seems to be holding it's value better than the N/A).
Pros for the VX: better engine (IMHO).
Pros for the Elise: possibly better handling, badge.
Other than that they're about the same - I found the VX quieter and more responsive at motorway speeds, which is why I've got one. Doubltless Elise owners either didn't think the same, or didn't mind - either car isn't exactly designed for long, straight roads!
Elise owners will tell you the VX is heavier, and they're right (by about 100kg). The power to weight is about the same as the Elise though, and it's still a light car.
If you're buying used, the VX is a bargain, frankly.
Drive them both, and see what you think - I bought a VX because it did the things I wanted better than the Elise (at £15k it's got a better roof, is more refined, newer, etc). New S2 vs the VX turbo? Not much in it - badge appeal is a major factor, and they're as 'practical' as each other. Turbo will be faster in a straight line for the money, Elise possibly faster around a bend.
Spend c. £5k on modding the suspension, exhaust, inlet and adding a charge cooler (a la Thorney, who runs the VX owners club website) and you'll have a car that'll get to 100 in less than 10 secs, and go on to around 170 mph though!
Dan
If it's your money and you're buying new, be prepared to loose a bundle if you get a VX220 (although the turbo seems to be holding it's value better than the N/A).
Pros for the VX: better engine (IMHO).
Pros for the Elise: possibly better handling, badge.
Other than that they're about the same - I found the VX quieter and more responsive at motorway speeds, which is why I've got one. Doubltless Elise owners either didn't think the same, or didn't mind - either car isn't exactly designed for long, straight roads!
Elise owners will tell you the VX is heavier, and they're right (by about 100kg). The power to weight is about the same as the Elise though, and it's still a light car.
If you're buying used, the VX is a bargain, frankly.
Drive them both, and see what you think - I bought a VX because it did the things I wanted better than the Elise (at £15k it's got a better roof, is more refined, newer, etc). New S2 vs the VX turbo? Not much in it - badge appeal is a major factor, and they're as 'practical' as each other. Turbo will be faster in a straight line for the money, Elise possibly faster around a bend.
Spend c. £5k on modding the suspension, exhaust, inlet and adding a charge cooler (a la Thorney, who runs the VX owners club website) and you'll have a car that'll get to 100 in less than 10 secs, and go on to around 170 mph though!
Dan
Yep, got to agree with everything Dan has said. I personally think that the engine and ABS (feel free to flame me for that, you lot) are two very big pluses for the VX and handling -- so I hear, I haven't driven a VX myself -- is very similar. So really it comes down to what you want to use the car for, your budget and opinion of badge snobbery.
Drive them both and let us know what you think!
Drive them both and let us know what you think!
If you want to read some petty arguments on this subject before they appear in this thread, then take a look at:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=63547&f=23&h=0
and this one has a "discussion" about the VX winning Performance Car Of The Year:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=65225&f=23&h=0
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=63547&f=23&h=0
and this one has a "discussion" about the VX winning Performance Car Of The Year:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=65225&f=23&h=0
Also have to keep in mind that the VX/Speedster was a 'dead end product' right from the start.
It won't be built much longer (until early next year) and that may spell trouble for continued support from Vauxhall/Opel dealers.
There is a pretty good independent specialist and aftermarket support for the Elise.
Some of them will probably start doing products for the VX/Speedster as they are pretty similar in some areas, but specific parts for these cars might become a problem in a few years.
Bye, Arno.
It won't be built much longer (until early next year) and that may spell trouble for continued support from Vauxhall/Opel dealers.
There is a pretty good independent specialist and aftermarket support for the Elise.
Some of them will probably start doing products for the VX/Speedster as they are pretty similar in some areas, but specific parts for these cars might become a problem in a few years.
Bye, Arno.
In 99% everyday use, I expect the two are inseparable. The view of a track day school, who have used both, is that the Lotus is a better handler but in extremis, far more likely to have you facing the wrong way than the Vauxhall so they now use the Vauxhall which is safer as it understeers more but clearly must do everything they want of it as a track car.
I've driven an Elise S2 135 and it left me cold, especially for the price. I've also driven a VX220 Turbo which I found to be light years better, being "basic" as opposed to the Lotus' "spartan".
All I can say in respect of the badge snobbery point is that they are both poor when it comes to build quality and there is no rhyme or reason for the Lotus premium bar the handling point. IMHO.
I've driven an Elise S2 135 and it left me cold, especially for the price. I've also driven a VX220 Turbo which I found to be light years better, being "basic" as opposed to the Lotus' "spartan".
All I can say in respect of the badge snobbery point is that they are both poor when it comes to build quality and there is no rhyme or reason for the Lotus premium bar the handling point. IMHO.
It's not just about Lotus being regarded as a premium brand, It's also that Vauxhall has such a bad brand image in the UK, it conjures up images of:
- Numpties in people carriers
- Backward baseball cap wearing youths called Lee in a maxxed up Nova
- Griff Rhys Jones in his underpants
Opel speedsters look much better! Sorry, but that's the way I see it.
- Numpties in people carriers
- Backward baseball cap wearing youths called Lee in a maxxed up Nova
- Griff Rhys Jones in his underpants
Opel speedsters look much better! Sorry, but that's the way I see it.
Thanks for the balanced views. I was half expecting to start a war with this one...
My initial thoughts were: buy a year old one so somebody else has taken the depreciation hit. Due to this a VX is appealing.
I feel an extended test drive blag coming on!
It also depends on the badge snobbery of our members as well. (I run a Performance Car Hire Club...) Have a poll going on at the moment.
Thanks again.
Tuan
My initial thoughts were: buy a year old one so somebody else has taken the depreciation hit. Due to this a VX is appealing.
I feel an extended test drive blag coming on!
It also depends on the badge snobbery of our members as well. (I run a Performance Car Hire Club...) Have a poll going on at the moment.
Thanks again.
Tuan
Well, for a hire club, I'd go with the Lotus (much as it pains me to say it!). Your member's aren't going to be worried about servicing, insurance or whatever, but they will want to rent something 'special'. It'll be hard to sell them on the idea of a Vauxhall being special, regardless of how fast it is, how it handles, etc, etc. About the only thing it's got going for it is the Performance Car of the Year awards. Whilst your members might want to have a go in one out of curiosity, this'll soon wane I should think. The Elise would be the better long term bet from a rental point of view.
As a daily driver, I'd say the VX has it (for me), but as a rental proposition for a bit of fun? People would go with the badge, and who's to say they're not right?
Dan
As a daily driver, I'd say the VX has it (for me), but as a rental proposition for a bit of fun? People would go with the badge, and who's to say they're not right?
Dan
You young whippersnappers don't remember the legendary Droop Snoot Firenza of 1974. God, I still want one. Big Bertha was a V8 monster that crushed Capris and BMW's on the race track. What an image builder.That car altered the Vauxhall image instantly. Far better than a bunch of wet Astras flailing round a track.
Naturally, they threw that away and went off competing for banality with Fords. Ford brought out the Cosworths and RS's. Vauxhall...er, didn't. Well, they had the Chevette HS but that didn't last long. It was all downhill from there.
Now they're going to race the Monaro. Oh goody.
Naturally, they threw that away and went off competing for banality with Fords. Ford brought out the Cosworths and RS's. Vauxhall...er, didn't. Well, they had the Chevette HS but that didn't last long. It was all downhill from there.
Now they're going to race the Monaro. Oh goody.
DanL said:
Your member's aren't going to be worried about servicing, insurance or whatever, but they will want to rent something 'special'.
as a rental proposition for a bit of fun? People would go with the badge, and who's to say they're not right?
Dan
Thanks what I was thinking...
Sod it! I'll buy both!
Tuan
Hi ji,
I'd go for the Elise,
Aside the badge factor, my best friend of mine,last
month took delivery of a new Speedster (aka vx 220.
WhileI was collecting my new S2 MY 04 after 8 months being Eliseless. Bar the obvious better steering of
the Elise and better brake feel(vx 220 seems really
overservoed)but It' also roomier than Opel, I sat in
his car and felt more claustrophobic with passanger leg
room much shorter too
Cheers
Roberto
I'd go for the Elise,
Aside the badge factor, my best friend of mine,last
month took delivery of a new Speedster (aka vx 220.
WhileI was collecting my new S2 MY 04 after 8 months being Eliseless. Bar the obvious better steering of
the Elise and better brake feel(vx 220 seems really
overservoed)but It' also roomier than Opel, I sat in
his car and felt more claustrophobic with passanger leg
room much shorter too
Cheers
Roberto
I am still in the process of deciding which car to buy and had made the decision to het a s1 111s elise. Now I am a little confused. Yesterday I had a very long test drive of a vx220 turbo and have to say its a fantastic car! Looks, performance, engine sound and general appeal!!! I couldn't really throw it round any corners as it was raining and therefore the threat of spinning was there, but it felt very connected to the road, excellent driver feedback and the power of that 2 litre turbocharged engine was immense. Full throttle really threw me back in my seat, it felt like warp speed with everything blurring by ( maybe slightly exaggerated . So now I am in the dilema of buying a 2001 n/a vx220 for 15k with 2 years warranty or a 1999 s1 111s with no warranty and the chance of problems etc.
dank said:That's exactly the decision I faced. I bought the VX.
So now I am in the dilema of buying a 2001 n/a vx220 for 15k with 2 years warranty or a 1999 s1 111s with no warranty and the chance of problems etc.
All depends on how much faff you're prepared to put up with (the S1 roof arrangement is rubbish compared to the VX/S2 solution), and whether you mind having an older car. I'd just sold a '97 Alfa, and didn't want another aging potentially fragile car! I have had cause to use the warranty, and there's been no problem at all - being an 'in house' Vauxhall one, you just turn up and get it booked in and sorted. Dealers vary, mind you.
www.vx220.org.uk/ for the owners club, if you want to find buyers guides, ask questions, etc.
Dan
I was gonna say that - tehre's a HUGHE gap. I was bloody surprised at the speed of the VX turbo though - proper fezza fast i reckon. Shame they arent depreciating quicker in a way as Id have chopped my slise in against one.
For me the real negative to the elise is still the brakes. I still think they suck badly. They have practically no initial bite and lock up, from any speed, far too easily. I really dont think it's my driving, honest, I just think they're too track biased - they're fabulous very hot, but that dont really happen on the roads enough. The ABS in the VX would stop you doing what SO MANY S2 drivers have done with their elise and hedges.... just my view of course
Night
For me the real negative to the elise is still the brakes. I still think they suck badly. They have practically no initial bite and lock up, from any speed, far too easily. I really dont think it's my driving, honest, I just think they're too track biased - they're fabulous very hot, but that dont really happen on the roads enough. The ABS in the VX would stop you doing what SO MANY S2 drivers have done with their elise and hedges.... just my view of course
Night
Nightmare said:
The ABS in the VX would stop you doing what SO MANY S2 drivers have done with their elise and hedges....
Unlikely. If this were the case (eg. locking the brakes caused the accident) then most accidents would be complete straight-line understeer frontal crashes.
But.. Most accidents still are 'backwards through the hedge' style, most of the time simply caused by being too rough with the right foot. ABS won't be of any use/help here.
I'd say you have to be a *lot* more careful with a VXT on a wet road (remember.. 5 of them were crashed in this way by journalists during the introduction in spain...) because of it's extra heap of torque..
Bye, Arno.
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