Electric Europa....by Chrysler!!!
Discussion
Just spotted this.
I'm all for Lotus farming out their technologies for use by other manufacturers for their cutting edge vehicles. But basically allowing Dodge to spit out what IS nothing more than an electric-engined Europa for me is a baaaad baaaaad thing. Basically it's the whole badge-engineering thing that did so much to harm the British motoring industry in the '70s.
Lotus's own cars should be instantly recognisable as a Lotus (which they are)... but when other cars that look identical start wearing other badges it confuses things greatly and IMO cheapens the Lotus brand.
Admittedly the Europa has sold so badly it's hardly a product that's synonymous with Lotus in the way the Elise/Exige/Esprit has been (and in the way the Evora will become), especially given that it was reputedly born out of an aborted Proton sports car project, but hopefully this isn't the thin end of the wedge.
I'm all for Lotus farming out their technologies for use by other manufacturers for their cutting edge vehicles. But basically allowing Dodge to spit out what IS nothing more than an electric-engined Europa for me is a baaaad baaaaad thing. Basically it's the whole badge-engineering thing that did so much to harm the British motoring industry in the '70s.
Lotus's own cars should be instantly recognisable as a Lotus (which they are)... but when other cars that look identical start wearing other badges it confuses things greatly and IMO cheapens the Lotus brand.
Admittedly the Europa has sold so badly it's hardly a product that's synonymous with Lotus in the way the Elise/Exige/Esprit has been (and in the way the Evora will become), especially given that it was reputedly born out of an aborted Proton sports car project, but hopefully this isn't the thin end of the wedge.
I disagree...
this is EXACTLY what Lotus should be doing, they are not big enough to suvive on their own sales, and picking up work from Dodge etc is the way forward (VX220 anyone?)
the fact that it looks like Dodge have done this (with Lotus) is less time than Tesla ans looks like being cheaper/better can only be good for Lotus.
this is EXACTLY what Lotus should be doing, they are not big enough to suvive on their own sales, and picking up work from Dodge etc is the way forward (VX220 anyone?)
the fact that it looks like Dodge have done this (with Lotus) is less time than Tesla ans looks like being cheaper/better can only be good for Lotus.
Esprit said:
Just spotted this.
I'm all for Lotus farming out their technologies for use by other manufacturers for their cutting edge vehicles. But basically allowing Dodge to spit out what IS nothing more than an electric-engined Europa for me is a baaaad baaaaad thing. Basically it's the whole badge-engineering thing that did so much to harm the British motoring industry in the '70s.
Lotus's own cars should be instantly recognisable as a Lotus (which they are)... but when other cars that look identical start wearing other badges it confuses things greatly and IMO cheapens the Lotus brand.
Admittedly the Europa has sold so badly it's hardly a product that's synonymous with Lotus in the way the Elise/Exige/Esprit has been (and in the way the Evora will become), especially given that it was reputedly born out of an aborted Proton sports car project, but hopefully this isn't the thin end of the wedge.
I disagree with your point about the Europa being (or not being) synonymous with Lotus - its as much a Lotus design as any other... plus I think you overestimate the sales of Esprits (year by year they were probably at a similar level!)I'm all for Lotus farming out their technologies for use by other manufacturers for their cutting edge vehicles. But basically allowing Dodge to spit out what IS nothing more than an electric-engined Europa for me is a baaaad baaaaad thing. Basically it's the whole badge-engineering thing that did so much to harm the British motoring industry in the '70s.
Lotus's own cars should be instantly recognisable as a Lotus (which they are)... but when other cars that look identical start wearing other badges it confuses things greatly and IMO cheapens the Lotus brand.
Admittedly the Europa has sold so badly it's hardly a product that's synonymous with Lotus in the way the Elise/Exige/Esprit has been (and in the way the Evora will become), especially given that it was reputedly born out of an aborted Proton sports car project, but hopefully this isn't the thin end of the wedge.
As to cheapening the brand, I reckon this car will be for US domestic market only - if so, then consumers in Europe/Australasia and other Europa markets won't get confused. Since the US doesn't import the Europa and are unlikely ever to do so, Americans will regard it as a new car too.
JJ
Edited by jazzyjeff on Thursday 25th September 19:39
Scuffers said:
I disagree...
this is EXACTLY what Lotus should be doing, they are not big enough to suvive on their own sales, and picking up work from Dodge etc is the way forward (VX220 anyone?)
the fact that it looks like Dodge have done this (with Lotus) is less time than Tesla ans looks like being cheaper/better can only be good for Lotus.
Oh I agree on that point... but I'd like to see it done more like the VX220, which was an Elise under the skin with a different bodyshell over the top. The VX is instantly recognisable as a Vauxhall and not as a Lotus... of course, under the skin it's identical to the Europa.this is EXACTLY what Lotus should be doing, they are not big enough to suvive on their own sales, and picking up work from Dodge etc is the way forward (VX220 anyone?)
the fact that it looks like Dodge have done this (with Lotus) is less time than Tesla ans looks like being cheaper/better can only be good for Lotus.
I just hope that by the time it comes to release, it's got a different body to the current Europa.
Lotus brand is about strong design, and driver experience. This will only erode that brand and de-value lotus in the long run.
The lotus badge carries heritage and pride. I willingly paid a premium for that badge because it means alot to me.
To have lotus farm out cars to be gutted, re-badged and re-engined by some primitive back yard yank manufacturer who still thinks cart suspension is a "pretty good idea", is just wrong.
With every other incarnation of the elise chassis that has gone out to other manufacturers they have at least done the right thing and re bodied and changed the power plant. In the case of Tesla it was a token effort and kept most of the lines of the elise but still it is a different car.
If I was a proud Lotus Europa owner and pulled up next to a dodge EV (they even have sod all imagination with the name) I would be pissy as hell.
This dilutes the brand. The brand is core to lotus and is irreplacable, I actually thought more of Kimberley than to do something as stupid as this. Manufacturers who protect and work at thier brand are very strong, you dont look at a BMW and think of some crappy brand. At the worst it is an Alpina.
This is a lever to claw back some of the £50m spent on the Evora. Stop it now, release the evora while the desire is strong and SELL it.
The lotus badge carries heritage and pride. I willingly paid a premium for that badge because it means alot to me.
To have lotus farm out cars to be gutted, re-badged and re-engined by some primitive back yard yank manufacturer who still thinks cart suspension is a "pretty good idea", is just wrong.
With every other incarnation of the elise chassis that has gone out to other manufacturers they have at least done the right thing and re bodied and changed the power plant. In the case of Tesla it was a token effort and kept most of the lines of the elise but still it is a different car.
If I was a proud Lotus Europa owner and pulled up next to a dodge EV (they even have sod all imagination with the name) I would be pissy as hell.
This dilutes the brand. The brand is core to lotus and is irreplacable, I actually thought more of Kimberley than to do something as stupid as this. Manufacturers who protect and work at thier brand are very strong, you dont look at a BMW and think of some crappy brand. At the worst it is an Alpina.
This is a lever to claw back some of the £50m spent on the Evora. Stop it now, release the evora while the desire is strong and SELL it.
I partly agree, but they have such an opportunity to make a lot of money with the way the market is going that is surely a good thing. I would imagine without these external projects they maybe in the Red.
I would rather see Lotus survive then go down the TVR route. There is always going to be some downsides.
Plus we can always be badge snobs on pistonheads/seloc as we do with the VX people !! LOL!
I would rather see Lotus survive then go down the TVR route. There is always going to be some downsides.
Plus we can always be badge snobs on pistonheads/seloc as we do with the VX people !! LOL!
Gooby said:
Lotus brand is about strong design, and driver experience. This will only erode that brand and de-value lotus in the long run.
The lotus badge carries heritage and pride. I willingly paid a premium for that badge because it means alot to me.
To have lotus farm out cars to be gutted, re-badged and re-engined by some primitive back yard yank manufacturer who still thinks cart suspension is a "pretty good idea", is just wrong.
With every other incarnation of the elise chassis that has gone out to other manufacturers they have at least done the right thing and re bodied and changed the power plant. In the case of Tesla it was a token effort and kept most of the lines of the elise but still it is a different car.
If I was a proud Lotus Europa owner and pulled up next to a dodge EV (they even have sod all imagination with the name) I would be pissy as hell.
This dilutes the brand. The brand is core to lotus and is irreplacable, I actually thought more of Kimberley than to do something as stupid as this. Manufacturers who protect and work at thier brand are very strong, you dont look at a BMW and think of some crappy brand. At the worst it is an Alpina.
This is a lever to claw back some of the £50m spent on the Evora. Stop it now, release the evora while the desire is strong and SELL it.
The lotus badge carries heritage and pride. I willingly paid a premium for that badge because it means alot to me.
To have lotus farm out cars to be gutted, re-badged and re-engined by some primitive back yard yank manufacturer who still thinks cart suspension is a "pretty good idea", is just wrong.
With every other incarnation of the elise chassis that has gone out to other manufacturers they have at least done the right thing and re bodied and changed the power plant. In the case of Tesla it was a token effort and kept most of the lines of the elise but still it is a different car.
If I was a proud Lotus Europa owner and pulled up next to a dodge EV (they even have sod all imagination with the name) I would be pissy as hell.
This dilutes the brand. The brand is core to lotus and is irreplacable, I actually thought more of Kimberley than to do something as stupid as this. Manufacturers who protect and work at thier brand are very strong, you dont look at a BMW and think of some crappy brand. At the worst it is an Alpina.
This is a lever to claw back some of the £50m spent on the Evora. Stop it now, release the evora while the desire is strong and SELL it.
Disagree withe the people who have problems with this.
The Europa is quite distinctly different from the Elise, isn't sold in America and is rare enough that not many people recognise it, so in effect Chrysler get the rebodiment for 'free', and Lotus get to produce more cars. If you object to this car, you should object to the Tesla (and for that matter the VX220).
Far from diluting the brand, it shows the leadership Lotus have when it comes to engineering. From the VX220 experience, most people will still treat a Lotus as the 'real thing' (for no real reason, but there you go).
Well done Lotus for extending their reach into new markets.
The Europa is quite distinctly different from the Elise, isn't sold in America and is rare enough that not many people recognise it, so in effect Chrysler get the rebodiment for 'free', and Lotus get to produce more cars. If you object to this car, you should object to the Tesla (and for that matter the VX220).
Far from diluting the brand, it shows the leadership Lotus have when it comes to engineering. From the VX220 experience, most people will still treat a Lotus as the 'real thing' (for no real reason, but there you go).
Well done Lotus for extending their reach into new markets.
Tuna said:
Disagree withe the people who have problems with this.
The Europa is quite distinctly different from the Elise, isn't sold in America and is rare enough that not many people recognise it, so in effect Chrysler get the rebodiment for 'free', and Lotus get to produce more cars. If you object to this car, you should object to the Tesla (and for that matter the VX220).
Far from diluting the brand, it shows the leadership Lotus have when it comes to engineering. From the VX220 experience, most people will still treat a Lotus as the 'real thing' (for no real reason, but there you go).
Well done Lotus for extending their reach into new markets.
+1The Europa is quite distinctly different from the Elise, isn't sold in America and is rare enough that not many people recognise it, so in effect Chrysler get the rebodiment for 'free', and Lotus get to produce more cars. If you object to this car, you should object to the Tesla (and for that matter the VX220).
Far from diluting the brand, it shows the leadership Lotus have when it comes to engineering. From the VX220 experience, most people will still treat a Lotus as the 'real thing' (for no real reason, but there you go).
Well done Lotus for extending their reach into new markets.
Tuna said:
Disagree withe the people who have problems with this.
The Europa is quite distinctly different from the Elise, isn't sold in America and is rare enough that not many people recognise it, so in effect Chrysler get the rebodiment for 'free', and Lotus get to produce more cars. If you object to this car, you should object to the Tesla (and for that matter the VX220).
Far from diluting the brand, it shows the leadership Lotus have when it comes to engineering. From the VX220 experience, most people will still treat a Lotus as the 'real thing' (for no real reason, but there you go).
The VX220 is the real thing! The Europa is quite distinctly different from the Elise, isn't sold in America and is rare enough that not many people recognise it, so in effect Chrysler get the rebodiment for 'free', and Lotus get to produce more cars. If you object to this car, you should object to the Tesla (and for that matter the VX220).
Far from diluting the brand, it shows the leadership Lotus have when it comes to engineering. From the VX220 experience, most people will still treat a Lotus as the 'real thing' (for no real reason, but there you go).
Whilst at it they should also object to the Lotus Carlton, Lotus Cortina, Lotus Sunbeam, Caterham 7 etc!
JJ
I'm afraid I'm with the nay sayers on this one, while I can appreciate that Lotus have to claw back costs in uncertain finnancial times, there is a distinct whiff of "Designers at Debenhams" about this particular project.
Excuse my snobishness, Debenhams is superb for last minute christmas gifts but I'm a House of Frazer kind of guy
Excuse my snobishness, Debenhams is superb for last minute christmas gifts but I'm a House of Frazer kind of guy
Tinkerbell said:
I'm afraid I'm with the nay sayers on this one, while I can appreciate that Lotus have to claw back costs in uncertain finnancial times, there is a distinct whiff of "Designers at Debenhams" about this particular project.
Everyone here seems to be overlooking the obvious benefit for Europa owners. They still get the exclusivity (unless Dodge decide to market the car in Europe - unlikely, since Lotus is probably building the cars, if they ever bring out an electric version it will be badged a Lotus) but, assuming the car is a success in the States, much better parts supply and maybe even parts prices (I have heard for example there is great difficulty in getting hold of replacement clamshells).JJ
I like it. I'm glad that Lotus (with Tesla and Dodge) are leading the way in building sportscars for the future.....
I'm no tree-hugger, but I'm more excited about cars such as this and the Tesla than, say, a 500hp Audi saloon, as I think they are more relevant to the cars we are likely to be enjoying in 10 or 20 years
I'm no tree-hugger, but I'm more excited about cars such as this and the Tesla than, say, a 500hp Audi saloon, as I think they are more relevant to the cars we are likely to be enjoying in 10 or 20 years
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