Lite weight rims anyone ?
Discussion
No it's not a dietary supplement, I'm trying to gauge the interest of the number of people who would be interested in custom (that doesn't mean expensive either) made rims for the Elise S1.
I'm looking for more rubber on the road due to a Honda transplant so started looking around and found a small manufacturer here in NZ who make rims to order.
Using the sizes similar to that in the Exige (Rimstocks) 16 x 7 front & 17 x 8.5 rear, this chap thinks he should be able to make a three piece rim for the front that will weigh 5.5 kgs and 7.5 kgs for the rear ?
That's 2 kg lighter per wheel than the Rimstock !
With rubber - 205-45X16 in front and a 235-40X17 rears.
Now this is early days so before you all slate me with certification requirements (if any ?? please advise) and shipping cost - this message is in the name of research so constructive replies please.
Cost depends in the design complication, material and number of units - hence my question to you all.
The design of the wheel will focus on a five spoke design, with a possible twin parallel spoke depending on weight gains ??
The manufacture is well known and makes drag and race rims for the local market so knows what he's doing. Targeting around NZD $ 2000 a set if made with aluminium, maybe of we go magnesium for further weight savings it may good higher.
Now remember this is one of the biggest advantages you can apply - weight saving, unsprung weight, more rubber on road, etc etc.
So if your interested please post a reply.
I should have a final design shape in a few weeks.
I'm looking for more rubber on the road due to a Honda transplant so started looking around and found a small manufacturer here in NZ who make rims to order.
Using the sizes similar to that in the Exige (Rimstocks) 16 x 7 front & 17 x 8.5 rear, this chap thinks he should be able to make a three piece rim for the front that will weigh 5.5 kgs and 7.5 kgs for the rear ?
That's 2 kg lighter per wheel than the Rimstock !
With rubber - 205-45X16 in front and a 235-40X17 rears.
Now this is early days so before you all slate me with certification requirements (if any ?? please advise) and shipping cost - this message is in the name of research so constructive replies please.
Cost depends in the design complication, material and number of units - hence my question to you all.
The design of the wheel will focus on a five spoke design, with a possible twin parallel spoke depending on weight gains ??
The manufacture is well known and makes drag and race rims for the local market so knows what he's doing. Targeting around NZD $ 2000 a set if made with aluminium, maybe of we go magnesium for further weight savings it may good higher.
Now remember this is one of the biggest advantages you can apply - weight saving, unsprung weight, more rubber on road, etc etc.
So if your interested please post a reply.
I should have a final design shape in a few weeks.
Thanks Bonce,
I'm trying........hopefully helpout the like of the gys who don;'t have the big budgets to afford the expensive stuff - seems you mention Lotus and the price doubles ??
I've got other post on other forums and response has been OK, big problem is getting reliable info on the Exiges dimensions etc.
I'm trying........hopefully helpout the like of the gys who don;'t have the big budgets to afford the expensive stuff - seems you mention Lotus and the price doubles ??
I've got other post on other forums and response has been OK, big problem is getting reliable info on the Exiges dimensions etc.
If you change the weight of the wheels, you need to alter the spring rates and damping, too. The suspension is desogned to push the wheels down into any depressions, and back down from any bumps, in quite a specific way. Change the mass on the end of the springs, and everything else needs changing to suit.
It's not something that will necessarily be too noticeable on a Ford Fiesta with alloys on it, but it's quite major on a car like an Elise.
It's not something that will necessarily be too noticeable on a Ford Fiesta with alloys on it, but it's quite major on a car like an Elise.
Hi Guys,
Work in progress at the moment, the engineer is finishing off crunching numbers on three different styles, then a mm measure up of the travel of the suspension arms to check clearance etc.
Then the "finishing touches" will start by posting sample rim centre pictures (rims won't change much) here and most likely on Seloc to see which are favoured by the masses.
At the moment we have a very simple, but clean 5 spoke, a 5 spoke with a bi spoke design (similar to the Rimstock) and a centre which is similar to a classic BBS rim, with less spokes if that makes any sense ? The later being the ligthest centre of the three. Depends what people like, most will want super ligth weight but it must look the part so we will see.
Weight targets have been meet using some pretty nice software this engineer guy has, at the moment using conservative safety factors the estimate weights are -
Front 16" x 7 - 5.5 kg
Rear 17" x 8 - 6.5 kg
All going to plan I hope to have the first set ready for testing before Xmas (summer here) then if that goes well we will start taking orders.
The advantage of using the three piece design is once we have the centre any number of offset, width, rim centre combinations can be produced so we may offer a road range and track range depending on what people want ? both Elise & Exige.
Northernboy - discussed this with a local race suspension shop here at the outset of this project and similar points were raised, I hope I get this right - but basically the lighter rims, add up to a gain.....the mass of the car and the geometry of the rim (offsets, rim centre etc) play a much more important role But the chnage in weight will make a very small difference - but not to the average driver (like me), maybe a regular track driver will pick up the differences ?
It was explained to me like this - the less weight on the suspension (wheel, disc, hub etc) system, will react in compression better, when the wheel hits a bump the accelerated mass is less so therefore slowed, stopped and returned to the road in a shorter time vrs a heavier weighted setup, the same for a pot hole or depression in the road, less mass to move.
I am told the suspenson will feel "firm" reacting but not firm riding if that makes sense ?
Also under acceleration and braking, less mass to accleration, stop & changing direction.
As someone said here a while back, it's the biggest weight saving and performance change you can do to a standard Elise ??
We will see ? plus I need more rubber on the road, about to go to Honda power !!
>> Edited by kiwi le on Sunday 28th September 12:25
>> Edited by kiwi le on Sunday 28th September 12:28
Work in progress at the moment, the engineer is finishing off crunching numbers on three different styles, then a mm measure up of the travel of the suspension arms to check clearance etc.
Then the "finishing touches" will start by posting sample rim centre pictures (rims won't change much) here and most likely on Seloc to see which are favoured by the masses.
At the moment we have a very simple, but clean 5 spoke, a 5 spoke with a bi spoke design (similar to the Rimstock) and a centre which is similar to a classic BBS rim, with less spokes if that makes any sense ? The later being the ligthest centre of the three. Depends what people like, most will want super ligth weight but it must look the part so we will see.
Weight targets have been meet using some pretty nice software this engineer guy has, at the moment using conservative safety factors the estimate weights are -
Front 16" x 7 - 5.5 kg
Rear 17" x 8 - 6.5 kg
All going to plan I hope to have the first set ready for testing before Xmas (summer here) then if that goes well we will start taking orders.
The advantage of using the three piece design is once we have the centre any number of offset, width, rim centre combinations can be produced so we may offer a road range and track range depending on what people want ? both Elise & Exige.
Northernboy - discussed this with a local race suspension shop here at the outset of this project and similar points were raised, I hope I get this right - but basically the lighter rims, add up to a gain.....the mass of the car and the geometry of the rim (offsets, rim centre etc) play a much more important role But the chnage in weight will make a very small difference - but not to the average driver (like me), maybe a regular track driver will pick up the differences ?
It was explained to me like this - the less weight on the suspension (wheel, disc, hub etc) system, will react in compression better, when the wheel hits a bump the accelerated mass is less so therefore slowed, stopped and returned to the road in a shorter time vrs a heavier weighted setup, the same for a pot hole or depression in the road, less mass to move.
I am told the suspenson will feel "firm" reacting but not firm riding if that makes sense ?
Also under acceleration and braking, less mass to accleration, stop & changing direction.
As someone said here a while back, it's the biggest weight saving and performance change you can do to a standard Elise ??
We will see ? plus I need more rubber on the road, about to go to Honda power !!
>> Edited by kiwi le on Sunday 28th September 12:25
>> Edited by kiwi le on Sunday 28th September 12:28
kiwi le said:
Northernboy - discussed this with a local race suspension shop here at the outset of this project and similar points were raised, I hope I get this right - but basically the lighter rims, add up to a gain.....the mass of the car and the geometry of the rim (offsets, rim centre etc) play a much more important role But the chnage in weight will make a very small difference - but not to the average driver (like me), maybe a regular track driver will pick up the differences ?
I disagree. Changing the unsprung weights up or down requires a change in suspension set up.
Basically, you can look at it like this, If the wheel drops into a dip, say, the suspension's job is to push it down as fast as possible onto the new road level, without pushing it so fast that it bounces back off the surface. A lighter wheel means that this downward movement is too fast, and so you do get an unwated bounce.
A lighter wheel, with properly adjusted suspension, will give a gain, definitely, but, with a set up that is for the standard wheels, changiing only one factor (wheel weight), without the others (spring rate, damping) will not necessarily be of any use.
The negative effects of the now incorrectly set up car might not be large, but it seems a waste to put on new wheels without then fixing the spring rates and damping.
Northernboy - you are "technically correct" but as I said (so I'm told) the average driver and track day enthusiast will barely feel the difference, the gain is in the reduced mass for the reasons I have explained.
My example was maybe not a good one but I was trying to simplify what a “techo” has explained to me, with the wheel in contact with the road the overall weight of the car & CG has more "bearing on the suspension" like that of fuel and passenger load , cornering G's, driver input…………………….etc.
I can give you the email address of a guy who has 20 years 5 days a week "suspension" experience with the likes of the Subaru rally team and Ozzie/NZ touring cars if you want the full mathematical explanation ?
I guess the proof is in the pudding and I'll be reporting back what the rims perform like, in my hands and in others who have more experience & talent than I.
Besides anyone who is that concerned about performance changes by going to lighter rims, should already have adjustable suspension anyway ?
What this space more to follow.
My example was maybe not a good one but I was trying to simplify what a “techo” has explained to me, with the wheel in contact with the road the overall weight of the car & CG has more "bearing on the suspension" like that of fuel and passenger load , cornering G's, driver input…………………….etc.
I can give you the email address of a guy who has 20 years 5 days a week "suspension" experience with the likes of the Subaru rally team and Ozzie/NZ touring cars if you want the full mathematical explanation ?
I guess the proof is in the pudding and I'll be reporting back what the rims perform like, in my hands and in others who have more experience & talent than I.
Besides anyone who is that concerned about performance changes by going to lighter rims, should already have adjustable suspension anyway ?
What this space more to follow.
Hi Kylie,
Thanks for compliments, but the car does most of the work I'm afraid
I'm putting the engine in myself with the help of a 40 page manual from the engine kit guy Joe (Check www.prototyperacing.com), but I'm sure there will be a few visits by Ken to keep me heading in the right direction - unfortunately boat builders don't make good wrench holders !!
With all the extra HP I'm going to need all the help I can get to keep it on the road so wider rims are the first change after the engine, then the next is brakes !! Actually engine arrived today so getting close now, should be ready for the 23 Nov track day, see if I can't improve on my time with 120 more hp ? can't wait !!
See ya soon
Thanks for compliments, but the car does most of the work I'm afraid
I'm putting the engine in myself with the help of a 40 page manual from the engine kit guy Joe (Check www.prototyperacing.com), but I'm sure there will be a few visits by Ken to keep me heading in the right direction - unfortunately boat builders don't make good wrench holders !!
With all the extra HP I'm going to need all the help I can get to keep it on the road so wider rims are the first change after the engine, then the next is brakes !! Actually engine arrived today so getting close now, should be ready for the 23 Nov track day, see if I can't improve on my time with 120 more hp ?
can't wait !! See ya soon
Gosh checked out that site cool! Iff you are doing limited miles each yr, why not get some sticky's for the new rims as well and watch those lap times drop big time!. If your going Toyo again suggest giving them a call well in advance if the sizes are going to be not common ones. Am still waiting for mine to arrive from Sydney!
Cheers
K
Cheers
K
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