Monday 8th September 2003

Toyota Motor for US Elise

Brits left with K Series as Lotus confirm 190bhp motor for US Elise

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[tube audio]

I hope all elises will get the zoyota machine.

Pricewise the Elise should not become more expensive.

[PetrolTed]

Lotus are still insisting that European Elises will continue with the K series. Have they got some sort of contract they can't get out of?

[adrianr]

Or they don't want to undermine current sales? Seem to recall demand for the S1 virtually dried up when the S2 was announced prematurely; lets face it if they say there will be a 190HP S3 in the spring then who is going to buy an S2 now?

AdrianR
p.s. Still got my S1, and the stopwatch has started for the first person to offer a retro-fit kit.

[Black S2K]

I suspect it's just a matter of time........

[alunr]

In one of the Lotus Elise books it states that they have a deal til 2005 for the K series

[Jon Gwynne]

Surely they will offer it as an option (probably at a higher price) even before the deal they have with Rover runs out. Who knows, maybe Rover will design a new K-series engine that is better than the existing one (perhaps a little more displacement and a bit more power) but is physically compatible with the existing one. That would be sweet.

p.s. If someone with an existing Elise really wanted the Toyota engine, how difficult would it be to swap them out?

p.p.s. On the other hand, it seems that the Toyota engine, even though it puts out around 40bhp more than the Lotus-tuned K-series engine now available, the difference in torque is negligable (4 lb/ft more from the Toyota engine) so everyday performance is unlikely to be significantly different. Perhaps the Toyota engine has other advantages (quieter? smoother? better throttle-response?) Anyone every A/B the two?

>> Edited by Jon Gwynne on Wednesday 10th September 23:13

[fastspider]

The K-series encourages you to drive on the torque and doesn't feel good when you rev it up. I ran a '98 S1 for a year and got used to that. However I've been running a Honda engined S1 for the last 18 months and as well as being lower geared, it just loves to head off the end of the tach (I have a 9100rpm rev limiter :-) and you end up driving it that way. I spent a day driving a standard S1 again recently, and it seemed very high geared, and I missed the top end grunt for overtaking.

Jon Gwynne said:

p.p.s. On the other hand, it seems that the Toyota engine, even though it puts out around 40bhp more than the Lotus-tuned K-series engine now available, the difference in torque is negligable (4 lb/ft more from the Toyota engine) so everyday performance is unlikely to be significantly different. Perhaps the Toyota engine has other advantages (quieter? smoother? better throttle-response?) Anyone every A/B the two?

[wfg]

While I hope you guys get 190 or better, we in the states usually seem to get the wussied versions of imports. It'd be nice to have a strong version, if not stronger.

[DanH]

wfg, its you guys that forced those damn polluting cats on cars!

I blame california!

p.s. rumour was us engine was gonna be about 180 bhp, but dunno if thats true. If so its only down 10bhp on the quoted S2 exige figure. Doubt any of it is set in stone yet though.

[wfg]

DanH said:

wfg, its you guys that forced those damn polluting cats on cars! I blame california! p.s. rumour was us engine was gonna be about 180 bhp, but dunno if thats true. If so its only down 10bhp on the quoted S2 exige figure. Doubt any of it is set in stone yet though.

I'm not responsible for screwy liberal ideas here. I live in Virginia.

There's a reason dooms day scenarios have the Golden State sinking into the Pacific.



>> Edited by wfg on Wednesday 17th September 22:50

[Xploded]

There a 2 versions of the 1.8 in the Toyota Celica Engine a 1.8 VVT-i S 1796cc-4L-10PK-105kW-143pk
and a 1.8 VVT-i TS 1796cc-4L-10PK-141kW-192pk
Toyota already has a 192 BHP engine. So I suspect the slightly Lotus tuned engine around 200 BHP or higher...
What do you guys think?

[DanH]

I think you should read the press release Lotus have said around 190bhp, and its the later ZZ engine.

[Jon Gwynne]

DanH said:

wfg, its you guys that forced those damn polluting cats on cars! I blame california!

Please explain how catalytic converters CAUSE pollution.

As someone who has lived in Southern California on and off since the mid 70s and seen (literally) the difference they make, you'd best back up that statement.

And don't try to argue that you can't get decent power out of an engine with them on because TVR gets 400bhp out of their Speed Six engine with cats firmly in place.

Near as I can tell, the only reason people take them off is so they can backfire under engine braking.

[DanH]

Well on short journeys they don't do anything as they take too long to warm up, and the creation and disposal of used cat pipes is extremely polluting.

Furthermore TVR cats seem to need replacement (both of them on a tuscan) after about 10k!

They also cause more back pressure affecting performance, and generate a HUGE amount of heat which is a real problem in a mid engined fibreglass car.

Furthermore there are a number of other concerns, have a dig on the internet if you care, but heres one example :

www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/11/27/catalytic.converters.enn/

Huge improvements have been made in engine emissions which has nothing to do with cat pipes, and its argualbe that we wouldn't be just be better off without them.

[Bonce]

Hear hear DanH!

Catalytic converters are evil.

[cuzza]

Jon Gwynne said:

Near as I can tell, the only reason people take them off is so they can backfire under engine braking.

Which is somehow a bad thing? : pop: :bang: :crackle: