standard S2 vs 111S vs 135 (etc.)

[girlracer]

I'm seriously thinking of getting an S2 Elise. I have seen standard ones for £17-£20k, and 135's for £23k, and even the odd 111s for £24k.

The car's going to be completely for fun. Blasts through the countryside and the odd track day. Having said that, I do live in central London so it will see it's share of traffic, and until October it will be my only car (although I don't commute so that's kind of irrelevant). Just meaning that after October, it will not need to be considered an 'all-rounder'.

Any opinions on which car to go for would be appreciated (with reasons please!).

Also, I would like to look into the option of starting with a standard car and upgrading to more power at a later date. How would this route work out financially as opposed to getting an already quicker car?

What does the 111 have over the standard beyond the engine - does it have uprated suspension etc?

thanks all!

[DanH]

Given we are talking S2s, 111 just indicates that it has the VVC engine. The 111s has superior trim inside (same as the sports tourer standard).

The 135 isn't worth paying a premium for as you can get that power very easily by getting it modded. If its the same price then its worth having but don't pay more. They gave away the 135 upgrade for free for a while.

A standard elise is 120ish bhp. You can tune this to 160ish bhp for 2k or so (excluding sports exhaust+induction).

There is also the S2 Sport 190, which is tuned to 190 (alledgedly) bhp, realistically, its probably nearer the 180 I mentioned above. Very pricey car though so not likely an option.

Best to buy a car with sports exhaust and induction in already if you can, otherwise budget between 350-500 for exhaust and 100-350 for induction depending on what you want. You need a sports exhaust unless you like that sewing machine sensation.

Bare in mind that tuning a k series past 180bhp starts to compromise reliability to what most would consider an unexceptible extent.

You could consider a turbo technics supercharger upgrade, but they cost from 6k upwards, and my personal opinion is that their reliability isn't that good. Awesome when they work, but they just seem problematic to me. They can however offer 190,210,230,260 bhp options. As you can imagine, the more power the more likely something is to break.

To read about NA tuning options, read this site :

www.dvapower.com/

As you can see, the VVC engine goes to about 170 before he blanks off the VVC mechanism (removing it), and then implements basically the same solution as you'd use to take a normal engine to 180. Keeping the VVC mech should make the car a bit more driveable at low revs though offering more torque, so if I had a 111 I'd be tempted to stop at 170.

A standard engine will go to 160+a bit as I mentioned previously. After this, you are onto throttle bodies and new ECU (which you would need to get that 180 figure on a VVC engine too).

There is a potential issue with changing the ECUs in S2 as right now the ECU of choice doesn't support EU3 diagnostics which may or may not be mandatory for the car. The lotus ECU has them though. The people making the alternative ECU are apparently working on solving this issue, but I wouldn't bank on it until it available.

Its also worth trying to get a sports tourer or 111s (not 111) as the carpet seems to prevent any issue with the corrosion that you may have seen mentioned here of late. You might be able to get a race tech which hasn't manifested the problem, but if you do I'd plan to remove the rubber floor and put the carpets in. Its worth noting that my S2ST is pretty old and doesn't have any probs.

As an aside, despite all this talk of engine upgrade, I don't think I'm gonna bother on my car Did my first track day last week and I really don't need more speed on the track, just more skill. Wouldn't mind more grunt for overtaking on the road, but certainly don't want it for the track is it means I'll have even more speed to scrub off coming to corners.

Depending on your priorities, you may also want to consider getting fatter sports suspension setup+wider alloys. Its bloody expensive (think 2.5k-3.5k), but it curbs the tendancy to understeer but not without some compromise to ride and wet weather safety. The price is the main obstacle, and depending on your level of driving skill, it may be a bad idea anyway. With the standard setup, if you lift off a bit mid corner you will get away with it. There's less change with the LSS as you won't be understeering so lifting off will just see you spinning if you misjudge it.

[bogie]

Dans pretty much covered it all there

I would say that if you are not into serious modding (depends on how you view insurance/warranty situation I guess) then get an S2111S (hey you may even get aircon!) and just do exhaust/induction/cat/maybe manifold ...in other words a few bolt-ons, which it may have some of anyway - thats gonna give you 165bhp ..maybe a touch more. Also reliable and not much effect on warranty

If you are into modding etc, then save your dosh get a std car, take it to www.dvapower.com and get the S2 155 kit for £1800 - I have this on my car ...produces 155bhp minimum, mine is actually 163bhp/140ft/lb ...a bit more than the std factory offerings.

So std car £20K + £2.5K ish for mods = 155/60bhp ish
S2111S for £24K + £1-1.5K for bolt-ons = 165bhp ish

And as Dan says - dont bother paying a premium for a 135 ...the heads just been given a bit of a tickle with the grinder you may as well go std and pay for a Stage 3+ head after

[girlracer]

thanks guys!

I fancied the sports tourer anyway (like me leather seats), and the corrosion issue is a great way to justify that.

I guess I would be more than happy with a standard S2 ST then (with sports exhaust and AC). It will be nice to have the option to upgrade the power a little if and when, but to be honest I'm getting this car because it HANDLES - I would stick with my Tuscan if I just wanted raw speed. I would like to get to know the car's dynamics at moderate speeds first, so really no need for extra power to start with.

I am not opposed to modding the car over time - in fact I'd prefer that to out of the box perfection. It's all part of the fun, something to look forward to, etc.

thanks again. Please let me know if you see or know of any S2 ST's in Gun Metal (or Cobalt Blue or Silver...)

I have been to see one on the PH classifieds (the one with black wheels). Lovely car, but holding out for sports exhaust and maybe AC on a £20k car - either that or a standard ST for nearer £18k.

Sally


>> Edited by girlracer on Saturday 10th May 14:45

[DanH]

Whilst gunmetal is a very pretty colour, inspect the car carefully for stone chips as there are reports that this colour is very prone to chipping.

You know about www.british-cars.co.uk elise forum? Its probably the main elise forum on the web. Also www.seloc.org is a great place, and because most everyone has met there isn't any trash talking etc.

[girlracer]

I've heard that about the Elise's in gunmetal, yes. It's strange because I drive a titanium (ie: gunmetal) Tuscan at the moment and it hides the stone chips really well, and Tuscan's are *very* prone to stone chips.

I have to get it though because it's my favourite car colour, and it will match my husband's gunmetal Cooper S (guess who chose the colour for him? ), and also my gunmetal 350Z when it arrives in October. Gun-tastic!

>> Edited by girlracer on Sunday 11th May 12:25

[Joe McCarthy]

Girl Racer,
Once you get used to handling the Elise, here's another option if you're interested in some serious HP.
www.prototyperacing.com
Cheers,
Joe