Discussion
I was visiting my local MG Rover Dealer, looking for a family car (ho hum), and saw the ZT 160 is a 1.8K series with a turbo charger (thought it was a detuned V6) could this be the way forward for a VX220 turbo Elise rival?
I would guess that Rover have done the hard work developing the reliability. Come to think of it I wonder if it would drop into my S1! Anyone got any gossip cos Lotus I guess will need to match the VX at some point.
I would guess that Rover have done the hard work developing the reliability. Come to think of it I wonder if it would drop into my S1! Anyone got any gossip cos Lotus I guess will need to match the VX at some point.
n209385 said: "MG Rover has introduced a less thirsty 114bhp CDT turbodiesel, and a 158bhp four-cylinder 1.8 Turbo petrol version in place of the V6 160"
From 4Car.co.uk
From 4car.co.uk search engine:
"Sorry, no features containing "1.8 Turbo petrol MG" could be found.
Top Stories
Sorry, no news, reviews or features containing "1.8 Turbo petrol MG" could be found.
Buying Guide
Sorry, no features containing "1.8 Turbo petrol MG" could be found."
Why bother with a 1.8 turbo k-series if the VVC makes tha same power? It doesn't make sense.
Captain Muppet said: Why bother with a 1.8 turbo k-series if the VVC makes tha same power? It doesn't make sense.
Yes it does.
As it is meant to replace the V6 and give lower CO2 emissions, it has to give lots ot torque at low-ish rpm's for 'comfortable cruising'. Only way to do this is with a (low pressure) turbo.
It probably produces about 150 to 200% the torque of the VVC at 2000-4000rpm.
The low HP number (which basically is a calculation of torqe, RPM and a constant) comes from a few sources:
- low redline (usually 6500)
- small turbo (quick pressure build, but runs out of steam at higher rpm's)
- very conservative cam timing (great off-the-line torque, but drops like a stone around 5000 rpm)
If you were to install a higher flowing turbo, raise the rev limter to 7000 and maintain the same boost pressure up to the limiter then it would probably push close to 200HP.
Bye, Arno.
n209385 said: "MG Rover has introduced a less thirsty 114bhp CDT turbodiesel, and a 158bhp four-cylinder 1.8 Turbo petrol version in place of the V6 160"
Less thirsty has to be the key doesn't it. As Arno said a low pressure turbo could give better torque than the outgoing V6 at lower revs, meaning less people ragging the arse off the car to get anywhere. Thus MG get two selling points;
1 - New engine is less thirsty, good from a "what car" point of view
2 - Now it's a turbo, good from a marketing point of view.
Question is, how long until the Max Muppets get hold of it and the MG becomes the boy racer's car of choice?
Could you put it in an S1? Well, turbo technics have got their conversion so it can easily be done. I don't think it would be a straight forward replacement as you have all the extra plumbing for the turbo which will probably need to be rejigged to get it into the Elise engine bay. Also you now have to deal with the extra cooling loads required by the intercooler and also that lovely turbocharger running in the region 800 to 1000 degrees C. Don't know if the standard Elise radiator is up to this.
Overall, I'd say if you want to go the turbo route talk to Turbo Technics. They have a proven kit for the Elise and will have gone through all the teething troubles in getting it to work successfully.
The other option would simply be to get your S1 seen to by one of the recognised experts in normally aspirated tuning. You can get a good reliable 160bhp here and let's face it, not much can live with an Elise with that kind of power. Obviously I'm only talking acceleration up to about 100mph. After this DeR and Daz will scream by in their uberpork wagons
All IMHO of course
Chris
You can get a good reliable 160bhp here and let's face it, not much can live with an Elise with that kind of power. Obviously I'm only talking acceleration up to about 100mph. After this DeR and Daz will scream by in their uberpork wagons
All IMHO of course
Chris
You mean upto about 60mph don't you?? OK, granted from a standing start they will impress to 100 but that is more todo with the 0-60 rather than 60-100 bit.
samn01 said:
You can get a good reliable 160bhp here and let's face it, not much can live with an Elise with that kind of power. Obviously I'm only talking acceleration up to about 100mph. After this DeR and Daz will scream by in their uberpork wagons
All IMHO of course
Chris
You mean upto about 60mph don't you?? OK, granted from a standing start they will impress to 100 but that is more todo with the 0-60 rather than 60-100 bit.
I was trying to illustrate that an Elise with 160bhp should really be able to out accelerate pretty much most machinery when driven in the real world, so there is not a lot of point in spunagain going to all the troubles of trying to squeeze the 1.8 turbo into an S1 Elise as a one off project when he could easily go to someone like DVA Power and get enough power for what we can do in the real world.
I guess that the magnificent chariots that some PH'ers have (such as DeR and DAZ) will always blitz the Elise at the top end but in outright initial acceleration a 160bhp Elise should not lose too much. Maybe I was optimistic with my 100mph and 60mph would be closer to the mark.
Chris
I agree - 160bhp with 140ft/lb torque in an Elise, with the CR box can give 0-60 in 5secs and 100 in say 13secs and top speed of 140mph. Thats pretty respectable for around £1800 outlay on top of a std car. 180bhp/150ft/lb for another £1500 ish is very useful too - after that your looking at big dollars for lost of steel bits to hold it altogether and it gets expensive.
In the real work on A/B roads having fun I find 160-180 plenty for the Elise to hold its own with pretty much anything...the more twisty it is the more the Elise comes into its own....bottom line is though your money is still better spent on upgrading the driver !
In the real work on A/B roads having fun I find 160-180 plenty for the Elise to hold its own with pretty much anything...the more twisty it is the more the Elise comes into its own....bottom line is though your money is still better spent on upgrading the driver !
I went for a supercharger. I bought a system from a company called Force One.
The engine took a great deal of strengthening, and I have to say the majority of components in there have been changed.
I had QED build the engine for me, and then stick it on the dyno. The first issue we had was cooling, so we had a matrix added to the supercharger. We added water injection at the same time. Next we ran out of fuel so added another 4 injectors and whilst there added another water injector.
The result 290 little horses, oh and a big hole in my bank balance.
http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/bc/atom290/vwp?.dir=/Atom&.src=ph&.dnm=Engine+Power+Graph.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//uk.photos.yahoo.com/bc/atom290/lst%3f%26.dir=/Atom%26.src=ph%26.view=t
>> Edited by atom290 on Monday 12th May 20:10
The engine took a great deal of strengthening, and I have to say the majority of components in there have been changed.
I had QED build the engine for me, and then stick it on the dyno. The first issue we had was cooling, so we had a matrix added to the supercharger. We added water injection at the same time. Next we ran out of fuel so added another 4 injectors and whilst there added another water injector.
The result 290 little horses, oh and a big hole in my bank balance.
http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/bc/atom290/vwp?.dir=/Atom&.src=ph&.dnm=Engine+Power+Graph.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//uk.photos.yahoo.com/bc/atom290/lst%3f%26.dir=/Atom%26.src=ph%26.view=t
>> Edited by atom290 on Monday 12th May 20:10
I've had my S2 fitted with the Turbo Technics 230bhp upgrade. 2 months and one track day (Bedford) with no problems so far. Fingers crossed.
The supercharger (and for that matter turbo) is not a simple installation. The TT190/230 has an extra water radiator for cooling the charged (compressed) air and an oil cooler to feed the supercharger with cool filtered oil. It is a very neat job but quite a lot of work to install.
I had an S1 with an upgrade of cams, exhaust, ECU, air filter and it produced about 165bhp. Very quick yes but you had to keep it at 4000+. I've got a graph showing a standard 120, sport 135, 111S, Lotus 190 (VHPD), TT190 and TT230. The Lotus 190 has less torque and acceleration than the standard 120 below 5000rpm. The main advantage of the Sport190 is that it revs to 8000 so you can stay in a lower gear slightly longer. So if you are predominantly using it on road, stick with 160ish and before you upgrade ask to see a rolling road graph. Following Bogie the other day his upgrade seemed very good (DVA I think). If you go with a supercharger you get more torque from 2000rpm all the way to the red line.
The TT260+ upgrade is a complete engine rebuild with all sorts of modifications to strengthen the engine and supply enough fuel.
There aren’t many turbo Elises out there for a good reason. The power delivery of a turbo is not linear and has lag. No problems in a heavy normal car but with a lightweight rear drive car it is bound result in expensive visits to the scenery. Has anyone tried the VX220 Turbo on a wet road?
The supercharger (and for that matter turbo) is not a simple installation. The TT190/230 has an extra water radiator for cooling the charged (compressed) air and an oil cooler to feed the supercharger with cool filtered oil. It is a very neat job but quite a lot of work to install.
I had an S1 with an upgrade of cams, exhaust, ECU, air filter and it produced about 165bhp. Very quick yes but you had to keep it at 4000+. I've got a graph showing a standard 120, sport 135, 111S, Lotus 190 (VHPD), TT190 and TT230. The Lotus 190 has less torque and acceleration than the standard 120 below 5000rpm. The main advantage of the Sport190 is that it revs to 8000 so you can stay in a lower gear slightly longer. So if you are predominantly using it on road, stick with 160ish and before you upgrade ask to see a rolling road graph. Following Bogie the other day his upgrade seemed very good (DVA I think). If you go with a supercharger you get more torque from 2000rpm all the way to the red line.
The TT260+ upgrade is a complete engine rebuild with all sorts of modifications to strengthen the engine and supply enough fuel.
There aren’t many turbo Elises out there for a good reason. The power delivery of a turbo is not linear and has lag. No problems in a heavy normal car but with a lightweight rear drive car it is bound result in expensive visits to the scenery. Has anyone tried the VX220 Turbo on a wet road?
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff