Dealer experience?
Discussion
Further to advice given and taken (Barclays bank having been very kind.....) I am about to take the plunge and get myself a late S1. HR Owen is my local dealer here in St Albans. They have a couple of decent S1's all of which have low miles and seem in pretty good condition. However, they all seem to be 10-20% more expensive than similar cars advertised. A assume this is beacuse they will warrant the cars for 1 year.
Question 1 - Does anyone have any good / bad experiences of this dealer or recommend a better one?
Question 2 - Is the extra cash a worthwhile spend on a two year old Elise with 10k on the clock?
Cheers
Iain
Question 1 - Does anyone have any good / bad experiences of this dealer or recommend a better one?
Question 2 - Is the extra cash a worthwhile spend on a two year old Elise with 10k on the clock?
Cheers
Iain
I have just gone through this! So I'll give you my experience
1. Car. There seems to be a big premium on low mileage elises, whether to pay it depends on whether it will be your only car. If it is going to be there does not seem much point paying the premium for low mileage as you will rack it up pretty quickly and loose the premium. Also, if you buy one that has been used day to day already the chances are most or all of the glitches will have been solved. The K series will easily take the mileage, the big worry is the head gasket and in my research there seems to be no pattern to failure. I have budgeted for a failure, put the cash away and I hope I'll never have to use it. Following on the most important thing seems to be buy on condition and history not age... When I found mine I traced the former owners and contacted them, you can get a great idea of the car from them.
2. Where to buy. Three options from what I can see. Private, independent dealer, franchised dealer. There are some great private deals out there, but you need to put the mileage in. Independent. I bought mine from Adrian Blyth (www.adrianblyth.co.uk). Their standards were at least as high as a main dealer and in my experience higher, can't recommend them enough. Obviously more expensive than private but not as expensive as some main dealers. There are plenty of independents around. I also looked at Paul Matty and the cars there seemed sound. The main dealers were patchy. I saw some really horrible ones at main dealers but there were more newer ones about, you will pay more and I doubt a main dealer warrenty is any better than an independent. But if the car you want is there then so be it. Again I looked all over (over time) and made my choice.
Overall I guess you need to get out and have a good look. Personally I would not be bothered about mileage, within reason, but I would be concerned about a patchy history. If you are using it everyday what is better a 98 / 99 car with 5000 miles or the same car with 30,000? I would take the 30,000 mile car every time. In my experience when you use a car that has not been used much everyday, all the little bugs come out at once! Finally there are plenty out there so be choosy!
Have fun and get one!!!
Twit
1. Car. There seems to be a big premium on low mileage elises, whether to pay it depends on whether it will be your only car. If it is going to be there does not seem much point paying the premium for low mileage as you will rack it up pretty quickly and loose the premium. Also, if you buy one that has been used day to day already the chances are most or all of the glitches will have been solved. The K series will easily take the mileage, the big worry is the head gasket and in my research there seems to be no pattern to failure. I have budgeted for a failure, put the cash away and I hope I'll never have to use it. Following on the most important thing seems to be buy on condition and history not age... When I found mine I traced the former owners and contacted them, you can get a great idea of the car from them.
2. Where to buy. Three options from what I can see. Private, independent dealer, franchised dealer. There are some great private deals out there, but you need to put the mileage in. Independent. I bought mine from Adrian Blyth (www.adrianblyth.co.uk). Their standards were at least as high as a main dealer and in my experience higher, can't recommend them enough. Obviously more expensive than private but not as expensive as some main dealers. There are plenty of independents around. I also looked at Paul Matty and the cars there seemed sound. The main dealers were patchy. I saw some really horrible ones at main dealers but there were more newer ones about, you will pay more and I doubt a main dealer warrenty is any better than an independent. But if the car you want is there then so be it. Again I looked all over (over time) and made my choice.
Overall I guess you need to get out and have a good look. Personally I would not be bothered about mileage, within reason, but I would be concerned about a patchy history. If you are using it everyday what is better a 98 / 99 car with 5000 miles or the same car with 30,000? I would take the 30,000 mile car every time. In my experience when you use a car that has not been used much everyday, all the little bugs come out at once! Finally there are plenty out there so be choosy!
Have fun and get one!!!
Twit
I bought mine privately from a friend and knew the car well.
BUT...
When I bought it I knew it had never really been used in anger anywhere with mostly motorway miles. This has led to a few bits perishing etc in advance of normal because they have'nt really been used - the steerig gaiter being one of them which effectively means a new rack!
It also means stuff that should have worked loose along time ago is only coming to the fore now so I've probably had/having to spend about £2 putting it right.
That said I got mine on an R plate for £12K with only 12K on the clock so I'm probably still doing alright.
BUT...
When I bought it I knew it had never really been used in anger anywhere with mostly motorway miles. This has led to a few bits perishing etc in advance of normal because they have'nt really been used - the steerig gaiter being one of them which effectively means a new rack!
It also means stuff that should have worked loose along time ago is only coming to the fore now so I've probably had/having to spend about £2 putting it right.
That said I got mine on an R plate for £12K with only 12K on the clock so I'm probably still doing alright.
Thanks for the info / advice. I am going to have a further look before buying - there are lots of dealers / cars around the Hertfordshire area so I will have a good sniff around.
BTW - I won't be using the car everyday as I have the delights of Thamslink to contend with.
HRO did have a very wide range of cars, from late S1's with low mileage, to a S-reg S1 with 52k on the clock.
Decisions decisions......
But have no fear, I will get one soon!
BTW - I won't be using the car everyday as I have the delights of Thamslink to contend with.
HRO did have a very wide range of cars, from late S1's with low mileage, to a S-reg S1 with 52k on the clock.
Decisions decisions......
But have no fear, I will get one soon!
I got my S1 from H R Owen in St Albans and found them very good. Dealt with a bloke called Jason who was pretty good. I had my finance arranged separately and when he found out the quote I had he put some serious effort into getting thier finance company to match it. This meant less buggering about for me as I could just turn up and pick the car up there and then.
My car is an Azure Blue S1 1999 on a 'S' plate and had only 1,800 miles on it when I picked it up. Paid £15,950 but it had some nice extras on it and a hard top which was welcome as mine is an everyday driver.
Could have got one cheaper but as it is my first 'proper' sports car I as glad to get a spotless nearly new one from a main dealer with a warranty.
I also went for Gap Insurance for peace of mind.
The cars seem to be changing all the time at this time of year so shop around.
My car is an Azure Blue S1 1999 on a 'S' plate and had only 1,800 miles on it when I picked it up. Paid £15,950 but it had some nice extras on it and a hard top which was welcome as mine is an everyday driver.
Could have got one cheaper but as it is my first 'proper' sports car I as glad to get a spotless nearly new one from a main dealer with a warranty.
I also went for Gap Insurance for peace of mind.
The cars seem to be changing all the time at this time of year so shop around.
Disagree with you there Dan, see Spinning-v-grid's comments on the other thread about his fun with the insurance company.
I could write my car off tomorrow and be offered far less than I paid for it. Unfair I know but at least I wouldnt have to argue about it for months. I would simply collect the figure given by the insurance company and the Gap Insurers will pay out the difference up to what I paid for the car.
I think £100 per year is pretty good for that cover.
I could write my car off tomorrow and be offered far less than I paid for it. Unfair I know but at least I wouldnt have to argue about it for months. I would simply collect the figure given by the insurance company and the Gap Insurers will pay out the difference up to what I paid for the car.
I think £100 per year is pretty good for that cover.
Just bought my 1999 S1 S-reg Sport135 from HR Owen in St Albans as well! Only 2 weeks ago.
I knew that I was paying slightly over the odds, but with 10k on the clock, £16k didn't seem too bad for a low mileage higher powered car.
So far, all is good. HR Owen have been faultless so far and the car is fantastic.
I do worry that I didn't look at many cars before buying this one (in fact....only the ones in the showroom!). I am normally much more careful than this, but for once I let me heart rule my head. Guess I just felt safer buying from a main dealer.
Good luck, and it will be worth it when you have one!
Dick
>> Edited by Dick135 on Thursday 24th April 10:50
I knew that I was paying slightly over the odds, but with 10k on the clock, £16k didn't seem too bad for a low mileage higher powered car.
So far, all is good. HR Owen have been faultless so far and the car is fantastic.
I do worry that I didn't look at many cars before buying this one (in fact....only the ones in the showroom!). I am normally much more careful than this, but for once I let me heart rule my head. Guess I just felt safer buying from a main dealer.
Good luck, and it will be worth it when you have one!
Dick
>> Edited by Dick135 on Thursday 24th April 10:50
Davey Boy said: Disagree with you there Dan, see Spinning-v-grid's comments on the other thread about his fun with the insurance company.
I could write my car off tomorrow and be offered far less than I paid for it. Unfair I know but at least I wouldnt have to argue about it for months. I would simply collect the figure given by the insurance company and the Gap Insurers will pay out the difference up to what I paid for the car.
I think £100 per year is pretty good for that cover.
Sorry Dave thats the point of insurance they must replace like with like. (thats what was being discussed) The experts on this forum have already stated the way to get like for like if the offer is cr@p is to authorise them to buy a replacement car of the same spec and mileage. GAP insurance is a con like extended warantees on PCs.
Also if you believe you wont have to argue/deal with insurers then I suspect you've never had to make a claim. I had to once, it was an open and shut case. Burgulars broke into my garage and tried to steal car, vandalising it when they failed. I still had problems with them questioning everything. Eventually I paid out extra as "wear and tear" to partially pay for a new roof. Thats insurers for you.
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 24th April 11:08
buy oop north - cars are cheaper. chris neils & LRV open for business....
always check that the recall work has been done, as well as FSH.
if it's for daily use (inc winter) then a hardtop is a very good idea, plus they look stunning with it on. especially in azure....
silver / norfolk mustard cars generally slightly cheaper.
get the 111s, more expensive but proportionally better.
always check that the recall work has been done, as well as FSH.
if it's for daily use (inc winter) then a hardtop is a very good idea, plus they look stunning with it on. especially in azure....
silver / norfolk mustard cars generally slightly cheaper.
get the 111s, more expensive but proportionally better.
I recently traded my P reg Elise ( 30k Miles) to Dealer which i had initially bought private for £14.5K to dealer for 12K,( he huffed and Puffed about price )only for me to find he had it advertised for 15K the next week with no apparent improvements,to me the dealers are are out for a quick buck, lotus provides a peice of mind used car warranty for £350 anyway, i would advise to buy private, you can trust a fellow Elise driver, he initially bought the car for the passion as for the dealers, i would quiestion there motives. A bit of Advice, take a low milage Elise from dealer on test drive then compare it to a used private elise. Also remember a numberof the Elises the dealers have have been purchased privately, Note the copy of Autotrader on your Local Lotus Dealers Desk.
Alana is right I think.
I had a problem with a dealer in Herts when I wanted to buy a Series 1. The sticker price for one of their cars was £1000 more than their Autotrader price and my haggling didn't knock off £1000. I didn't buy on the spot but was furious when I found ought they'd tried to pull a fast one and demanded a refund of my deposit which duly materialised.
Subsequently bought an S2 111s from a private seller. It's a gem.
I had a problem with a dealer in Herts when I wanted to buy a Series 1. The sticker price for one of their cars was £1000 more than their Autotrader price and my haggling didn't knock off £1000. I didn't buy on the spot but was furious when I found ought they'd tried to pull a fast one and demanded a refund of my deposit which duly materialised.
Subsequently bought an S2 111s from a private seller. It's a gem.
Just thought that I would throw in my 2 cents worth. If gap insurance is anything like it is here in the states, it only works if you finance a car. Gap is soley designed to make up for negative equity in a borrowing situation so that you do not have to come out of pocket. If you paid cash, you can not use gap insurance as it only works for financed cars that you owe money on.
As for insurance replacing like with like, not true at all! I have several customers that just end up with whatever wholesale value is on the car. Like I said, may be different across the pond but I soundly believe that all insurance companies operate alike. They will get out as absolutely cheaply as possible and they usually only give you what they call "fair market value". I will say this though, when dealing with an insurance company on a total loss you should contact a dealer and see what they are selling your particular car for as they will always negotiate the payout.
I could be wrong but that is what has normally happened over here.
As for insurance replacing like with like, not true at all! I have several customers that just end up with whatever wholesale value is on the car. Like I said, may be different across the pond but I soundly believe that all insurance companies operate alike. They will get out as absolutely cheaply as possible and they usually only give you what they call "fair market value". I will say this though, when dealing with an insurance company on a total loss you should contact a dealer and see what they are selling your particular car for as they will always negotiate the payout.
I could be wrong but that is what has normally happened over here.
alana said: I recently traded my P reg Elise ( 30k Miles) to Dealer which i had initially bought private for £14.5K to dealer for 12K,( he huffed and Puffed about price )only for me to find he had it advertised for 15K the next week with no apparent improvements
I'll admit I'm not totally sure I'm right here, but wouldn't a dealer have to add VAT to the price (I assume he can't claim the VAT back off you). So - 12k trade in + VAT = £14,100, leaving him £900 haggling margin, less the cost of a warranty and prepping the car for sale.
If anyone knows different (e.g. that 17.5% of the price is something the dealer gets, rather than the treasury), tell me as it'll give me a much better idea of the haggling room available on used cars!
As a matter of interest, I was advised by the Lotus guy at HROwen St Albans to try and sell my car rather than part ex it, as (at 6 month old) if nothing else I'd loose the VAT portion of the price I paid for it.
Dan.
Chris, I see your point about GAP for finance and may be true the point that has been raised here though by people in the know is that the contract is to replace your car.
As far as I understand it, you can authorise them to buy your replacement car. They must then find your replacement car in a similar condition to your prior to the claim and buy it. Its tough on them if they have to pay over the odds. You may have to fight for this but the contract has been signed by both parties.
My dealings with the insurance company on my claim (damage not write off) was that it was open and shut and they would pay. (A burgular broke into my garage). They still made/asked me pay wear and tear on the roof that needed replacing. The rest was all covered including the alarm immobiliser etc. However a total write off would be different as the car bought would be in the same condition, so no wear and tear could be claimed by the insurance.
Insurance companies wil try and get out of any claim or reduce the amount paid out by any means.
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 8th May 16:23
As far as I understand it, you can authorise them to buy your replacement car. They must then find your replacement car in a similar condition to your prior to the claim and buy it. Its tough on them if they have to pay over the odds. You may have to fight for this but the contract has been signed by both parties.
My dealings with the insurance company on my claim (damage not write off) was that it was open and shut and they would pay. (A burgular broke into my garage). They still made/asked me pay wear and tear on the roof that needed replacing. The rest was all covered including the alarm immobiliser etc. However a total write off would be different as the car bought would be in the same condition, so no wear and tear could be claimed by the insurance.
Insurance companies wil try and get out of any claim or reduce the amount paid out by any means.
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 8th May 16:23
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