How is the VX-200 viewed.....
Discussion
...by Lotus owners? Just interested in what you guys think of the VX as its been getting some great reviews and for the price, would seem to make a viable alternative to the Elise, especially new?
If you look over the ineveitable badge snobbery and the fact that maybe the Elise makes a better track car out of the box, I think the VX makes a good case if you're looking for a car you can use every day with perhaps some track work.
Any thoughts?
-Mike.
If you look over the ineveitable badge snobbery and the fact that maybe the Elise makes a better track car out of the box, I think the VX makes a good case if you're looking for a car you can use every day with perhaps some track work.
Any thoughts?
-Mike.
Seriously if you took the badges off, then every Elise owner would have bought one instead.
As an Elise owner myself I have just committed blasphemy by saying that.
If you are seriously interested in a VX220 as an alternative to an Elise then you should drive one, but then what's the point as you know it'll be the same - unless the garage will let you take it on a track.
It's only Elise drivers will have bad things to say about them.
BTW I have seen my local Lotus dealer advertising £2K off any new Elise, if that helps matters.
As an Elise owner myself I have just committed blasphemy by saying that.
If you are seriously interested in a VX220 as an alternative to an Elise then you should drive one, but then what's the point as you know it'll be the same - unless the garage will let you take it on a track.
It's only Elise drivers will have bad things to say about them.
BTW I have seen my local Lotus dealer advertising £2K off any new Elise, if that helps matters.
VX-220 seems like a nice enough car. Personally I don't like the styling that much (although I saw a nice blue one a while ago which slightly changed my mind). I don't like ABS (in a kind of cut off nose to spite face type way 
). Other than that it should be quite car and probably a bit more livable day to day.
They dont wave back either!
). Other than that it should be quite car and probably a bit more livable day to day. They dont wave back either!
I've got to say I don't get on with Elises. I test drove an S1 a while ago, and really wanted to like it. I just couldn't get along with the pedal feel though, and it was *really* noisy at motorway speeds (which is what it's supposed to be like, but even so...).
Anyhow, last weekend I tested out an S2 sports tourer (20k miles, 2 years old) and was really hoping I'd like it. Sadly, it's almost exactly the same as the S1 - noisy, didn't like the pedal feel, and on this one the gear box was really vague.
The VX, on the other hand, is quieter and the pedal feel is the same as a normal car. Depends what you want from the car really, but (to my mind) the VX seemed better built, and would be much easier to live with day to day. The looks are a personal thing - I'd say the S1 Elise is best, then VX, then S2, but I had them in exactly the opposite order a few months ago!
I've still not bought a VX though - I'm hoping the turbo will push the prices of a normal one down a bit more! Basically, if the VX had a Lotus badge on it, I'd already own one. If the Lotus didn't have the badge, I'd not even consider it.
Edited to say I'm fully expecting to be slated by the Elise owners!
Dan
>> Edited by DanL on Tuesday 1st April 12:35
Anyhow, last weekend I tested out an S2 sports tourer (20k miles, 2 years old) and was really hoping I'd like it. Sadly, it's almost exactly the same as the S1 - noisy, didn't like the pedal feel, and on this one the gear box was really vague.
The VX, on the other hand, is quieter and the pedal feel is the same as a normal car. Depends what you want from the car really, but (to my mind) the VX seemed better built, and would be much easier to live with day to day. The looks are a personal thing - I'd say the S1 Elise is best, then VX, then S2, but I had them in exactly the opposite order a few months ago!
I've still not bought a VX though - I'm hoping the turbo will push the prices of a normal one down a bit more! Basically, if the VX had a Lotus badge on it, I'd already own one. If the Lotus didn't have the badge, I'd not even consider it.
Edited to say I'm fully expecting to be slated by the Elise owners!
Dan
>> Edited by DanL on Tuesday 1st April 12:35
I started out buy drving a VX before even considering the S1 Elise which I eventually bought. The test drive in the VX was the best fun I have had this side of Alton Towers. The dealer correctly thought driving really fast would impress me, the VX went very well and the brakes felt better to me than on the Elise, although I'm having mine checked. The thing which concerned me was depreciation. I couldn't afford to give a large ammount of money away over a few years. Now I own an Elise I know I made the right decision.
DanL said:I've got to say I don't get on with Elises. I test drove an S1 a while ago, and really wanted to like it. I just couldn't get along with the pedal feel though, and it was *really* noisy at motorway speeds (which is what it's supposed to be like, but even so...).
Perhaps this had a sports exhaust or similar - mine is noisy on the motorway but not unbearably so (until I get my sports exhaust that is
)
DanL said:Anyhow, last weekend I tested out an S2 sports tourer (20k miles, 2 years old) and was really hoping I'd like it. Sadly, it's almost exactly the same as the S1 - noisy, didn't like the pedal feel, and on this one the gear box was really vague.
I found the S2 offered nothing more than a bigger boot when I tested one and went for an S1 instead as they'd had longer building that one so hopefully most of the problems had been ironed out... It was also half the price and meant I did'nt need finance.
DanL said:
The VX, on the other hand, is quieter and the pedal feel is the same as a normal car. Depends what you want from the car really, but (to my mind) the VX seemed better built, and would be much easier to live with day to day. The looks are a personal thing - I'd say the S1 Elise is best, then VX, then S2, but I had them in exactly the opposite order a few months ago!
What do'nt you like about the pedal feel? I love it myself although I suppose a number of people don't like the lack of ABS.
I know what you mean about the styling - I liked the VX220 in concept, couldn't stand it on release (boring silver didnt help) but don't mind the blue ones now.
I've always loved the S1
The S2 fades in and out on me - Bogie and Sarah's type 72(?) is pretty cool and Moose's (from SELOC) car looks ace on its lowered suspension in that nice Aqua (green/gray) colour but I just can't get excited about the standard coloured cars - Cobalt Blue, Aqua and Gun Metal are the only ones that do it for me.
DanL said:
I've still not bought a VX though - I'm hoping the turbo will push the prices of a normal one down a bit more! Basically, if the VX had a Lotus badge on it, I'd already own one. If the Lotus didn't have the badge, I'd not even consider it.
Edited to say I'm fully expecting to be slated by the Elise owners!
I'm obviously not very good at this Lotus ownership malarky then
DanL said:the pedal feel is the same as a normal car.
And this shows why personal preference is so important..
This, in my case, is exactly one of the reasons why I did choose the S2 over the Speedster when I test-drove both. (here they are almost identical in price)
The Speedster had hardly any feeling in the assisted brake pedal
and the ABS was very irritating (too trigger-happy) when driving 
. The Elise makes you feel what's happening.
The VX/Speedster is good
. No doubt about it (can't really be any different as it's very similar to the Elise 
).. But it's problem is that it's having difficulty defining itself.
It's not a track toy for the people who like that as it's set up too soft and has stuff like ABS, which gets in the way.
But it's also not a 'regular' open topped sportscar for the MX5, Boxter, etc. customers with easy accessiblity and such.
It is caught somewhere inbetween, which is not a good spot to be.
The Turbo Speedster is an interesting development (way too heavy though at 900+kg
), although I get the impression that it was built more to keep the german Opel customers happy (eg. autobahn stormer, able to cruise at 150mph 
) than the UK Vauxhall trackday fans. Bye, Arno.
alunr said: What don't you like about the pedal feel? I love it myself although I suppose a number of people don't like the lack of ABS.
I've never driven a car without servo'd brakes, and I couldn't make head nor tail of the pedal feel - to me it needed an alarming amount of pressure before the car started to slow down, and in a servo'd car I'd be expecting the car to lock up on what I was feeling. Obviously this is something I'd have to get used to, and given a bit more experience it's probably something I'd end up liking, but it's a bit off-putting on the first encounter!
Same with the accelerator, actually - I'm sure I'm used to my overly assisted MX-5, but the go pedal was quite firmly sprung. In contrast to these two pedals, the clutch was as light as the Mazda.
Steering effort was a bit odd too - very light (almost too light) at speed, but heavy (although not too bad) at parking speeds. Lack of power steering I suppose, and not a problem in itself - from test drives the VX's steering seems less 'nervous' at speed though (doubtless someone will say it's lacking feel as a result, but I preferred the extra stability).
The S1 I tested was a 111s, so I guess the gearing may not have been ideal for motorways.
Dan.
I've come from Mondeo to S1 Elise. A month ago, the Elise had steering that was too heavy, brakes that need far too much force to stop the car, was impossible to get in and out of, too noisy on the motorway, hardly any luggage space, slightly scary power and was worryingly close to the ground.
Now, the Mondeo has over-servoed grabby brakes, steering without feel, far too much luggage space (just done five days 2-up holiday), is horribly underpowered and can't go round corners. Still nicely quiet on motorway though. Going from Elise to Mondeo feels like going from Mondeo to Transit!
I guess it's just a case of what you're used to.
Now, the Mondeo has over-servoed grabby brakes, steering without feel, far too much luggage space (just done five days 2-up holiday), is horribly underpowered and can't go round corners. Still nicely quiet on motorway though. Going from Elise to Mondeo feels like going from Mondeo to Transit!
I guess it's just a case of what you're used to.
Arno said:
The Turbo Speedster is an interesting development (way too heavy though at 900+kg
Bye, Arno.
interesting...Ive now spent an entire day at Bedford Autodrome reaming a 220 turbo to pieces...and its a phenomenal car...I really cant agree that it isnt aimed at track...its more settled, more powerful, more adjustable and more forgiving than the original 220...and a bloody good laugh. Made my S2 feel slow....
I bought my Elise S2 entirely due to the depreciation issue with the VX...when they were released at near as dammit the same price, the Vauxhall made no sense at all.
now.....may well chop in the 'lise for a 220 turbo!
oh, and I think the brakes are decidedly suspect on the elise S2...and Ive NEVER owned a car with a servo!
Night
I totally agree with Rich N.
I've had my S1 111s for two months now and done two track days and 2000 miles. My other car is a Seat Leon Cupra R and at first I found the Elise an absolute sod to drive. But's it's just a case of getting used to it. Now the Cupra R is sloppy, handles badly, no braking feedback etc etc. The Elise definitely take effort to learn to drive (but that's the point, right??) but once you have the rewards are fantastic!
I've had my S1 111s for two months now and done two track days and 2000 miles. My other car is a Seat Leon Cupra R and at first I found the Elise an absolute sod to drive. But's it's just a case of getting used to it. Now the Cupra R is sloppy, handles badly, no braking feedback etc etc. The Elise definitely take effort to learn to drive (but that's the point, right??) but once you have the rewards are fantastic!
Snap (twice
Nightmare said:interesting...Ive now spent an entire day at Bedford Autodrome reaming a 220 turbo to pieces...and its a phenomenal car...I really cant agree that it isnt aimed at track...its more settled, more powerful, more adjustable and more forgiving than the original 220...and a bloody good laugh. Made my S2 feel slow....
). My only critism of the VX turbo is that the gearbox is just plain sloppy (compared to my S1 or Noble) - I hit 5th instead of 3rd when going from 4th a few times and the whole acceleration is totally without drama - bloddy fast, but no drama. But then I'm a notchy-turbo-nutty car person at heart that likes cars that have to be driven, not drive for you
Can't fault the new suspension mods on the VX - no understeer, and plenty of oversteer fun if you want to (the old VX you had to provoke into lift off oversteer if you actually wanted to get around a track corner rather than just run off wide....)
J
DanL said:
Steering effort was a bit odd too - very light (almost too light) at speed, but heavy (although not too bad) at parking speeds. Lack of power steering I suppose, and not a problem in itself - from test drives the VX's steering seems less 'nervous' at speed though (doubtless someone will say it's lacking feel as a result, but I preferred the extra stability).
Hmmm, that's not how the Elise steering should be.
It should be absolutely directionally stable at speed in a straight line, eg. motorway type stuff. However when you start moving away from dead centre you should have a lovely sharp, fast linear turn in, that ultimately blows you away at how much grip is there, it's difficult to describe but not all Elises have the geo properly setup and IMHO this can cause cars to feel less good than they should.
The elise is very sensitive to correct suspension geometry, and setting it up requires strict adherance to te factory procedure, few people go to the bother, but it does make a difference.
I usually set my car up every 6 months or so, and that level of maintainance seems to keep the handling the way I like it, as it should be . . .
I was just watching some video I took in my car at the last trackday I was on, and down the straights at 100mph+ the steering wheel barely moves +/- 2 degrees, you could more or less drive it with one finger . . .
Fd
>> Edited by fergusd on Tuesday 1st April 21:56
The VX220 is undoubtedly a good car but I wouldn't have one for a couple of reasons.
First, if I'm going to buy a mid engined sports cars I at least want it to look good and personally I think the VX is ugly and will still look ugly in 10, 20, 30 years time.
More importantly, the Elise was designed as a lightweight sportscar that gives maximum feedback to the driver. Good driving is rewarded, you have to work to get the best enjoyment out of it. The VX just moves away from this with every incarnation, it gets heavier and softer.
I didn't buy my S1 cos it was a Lotus, in fact I knew very little about Lotus at that point. But they have a heritage and they still build cars according to the original philosophy. Vauxhall have a heritage but it's completely worthless now, it's just a name that a faceless car company uses cos they think it will appeal to UK buyers more. They saw the S1 and thought, we'll have some of that. Oh, no we won't cos it's a bit too raw, too much driver involvement is required, lets tone it down a bit. Starts out as a fantastic concept and gets toned down to another marketing exercise.
Having said all that, I fully recognise that the Elise is too much, too raw for some people and so the VX is maybe a suitable alternative. Even the S2 is a bit easier to live with than the S1.
First, if I'm going to buy a mid engined sports cars I at least want it to look good and personally I think the VX is ugly and will still look ugly in 10, 20, 30 years time.
More importantly, the Elise was designed as a lightweight sportscar that gives maximum feedback to the driver. Good driving is rewarded, you have to work to get the best enjoyment out of it. The VX just moves away from this with every incarnation, it gets heavier and softer.
I didn't buy my S1 cos it was a Lotus, in fact I knew very little about Lotus at that point. But they have a heritage and they still build cars according to the original philosophy. Vauxhall have a heritage but it's completely worthless now, it's just a name that a faceless car company uses cos they think it will appeal to UK buyers more. They saw the S1 and thought, we'll have some of that. Oh, no we won't cos it's a bit too raw, too much driver involvement is required, lets tone it down a bit. Starts out as a fantastic concept and gets toned down to another marketing exercise.
Having said all that, I fully recognise that the Elise is too much, too raw for some people and so the VX is maybe a suitable alternative. Even the S2 is a bit easier to live with than the S1.
I think that since the VX is designed by Lotus, built next to the Elise, it basically is a Lotus. Also considering that Lotus tune/engineer much of GMs stock both here and in the USA, it's not such a jump to think of it as a Lotus model. Heard somewhere that Club Lotus even welcome it as such, although that probably has more to do with lining someones pockets...
I think of it as an alternative version of the Elise. It has, of course, the advantage of being supported by your Vauxhall dealerships, and has benefitted from serious pressure from GM for Lotus to up it's build quality. But being so obviously a reskinned Elise, you can't think of it as anything but a Lotus, badge or not. Same as the Lotus designed and engineered LT5 V8 that powered the Corvette ZR1 from '91-'95. It was a benchmark V8, but badged as GM Corvette. However, no ZR1 owner/enthusiast will tell you it's not a Lotus engine.
Regards,
Nicholas
I think of it as an alternative version of the Elise. It has, of course, the advantage of being supported by your Vauxhall dealerships, and has benefitted from serious pressure from GM for Lotus to up it's build quality. But being so obviously a reskinned Elise, you can't think of it as anything but a Lotus, badge or not. Same as the Lotus designed and engineered LT5 V8 that powered the Corvette ZR1 from '91-'95. It was a benchmark V8, but badged as GM Corvette. However, no ZR1 owner/enthusiast will tell you it's not a Lotus engine.
Regards,
Nicholas
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