First Impressions
Discussion
Well, bought 111S S1 yesterday and am still grinning. Its got a lovely noise courtesy of sports exhaust - quite raspy and barky and its an absolute joy to drive. Its fast enough, but you soon get used to the performance. The seats are well comfortable and its really cosy as well - despite being nearly freezing outside. I've dragged it across a few speed bumps, which didn't feel too nice underfoot, but to all those thinking of getting one of these, do it, i don't think you'll be disappointed...
Great news but definately change the tyres ASAP, Pirelli Pzero tyres are not a good tyre for the Elise (the car is too light). Too many people have lost it due to these tyres on slippery surfaces. If you can change, to Yokos or bridgestone (although the Nooo thread seems to suggest that bridgestones aren't that great either). Drive carfully have fun 
>> Edited by smeagol on Friday 7th February 17:28
>> Edited by smeagol on Friday 7th February 17:28
ok, so i'm only taking it steady (well, steadyish!!) and I haven't got anything to compare it to, but it sticks to the road like no-one's business on those pirellis, ok, i've had the odd twitch whilst booting it up damp hills and the like, but thats not surprising given the power/weight, are you talking from track experience (as thats where i'll be heading soon...)
Hi Zebedee. From what I can gather the main problem with Pzeros is they were designed mainly for cars such as porsches. Whilst brilliant on these cars, the Elise is that they are that light that their grip isn't good in the wet (ie the tread doesn't shift the water). The worst part I hear is that they let go at relatively low speed without warning (eg 20mph round a roundabout, or 30mph on country road etc.)
This has come from the Lotus forums here and on the BBS one. The bit about Pzeros and proches is info gathered from a tyre friend of mine.
This has come from the Lotus forums here and on the BBS one. The bit about Pzeros and proches is info gathered from a tyre friend of mine.
hmmm must say that a lot of what is said about Pzeros is cobblers - they may not be the absolute best on the limit but generally are excellent as long as you know how far you can push them.
i was at elvington on jan 4th in the snow & slush and was amazed at just how far you can push them - so much that i've just put another set of rears on.
also they are far more hardwearing than advans - i got over 13k out of the rears compared to an estimated 6-8k for a set of advans.
and they're cheaper.....
nick
s1 111s
i was at elvington on jan 4th in the snow & slush and was amazed at just how far you can push them - so much that i've just put another set of rears on.
also they are far more hardwearing than advans - i got over 13k out of the rears compared to an estimated 6-8k for a set of advans.
and they're cheaper.....
nick
s1 111s
Nick can I ask, have you tried the Yoko's? On the BBS forum they reconned these were the best to have by a long way. Also on this forum when you hear that people have lost it at low speed its often admitted they were on Pzeros. Also ask yourself this Why do you think Lotus changed to Yokos for the 160S and Exige?
Pzeros are fine in the dry but the wet grip.....
BTW the point I made about porsche etc. came from a friend that is a tyre specialist (esp Pirellis). I asked about PZeros for the M100 Elan and he pointed out that they weren't going to be that good because the car would be too light. The Elise is even lighter than the Elan.
>> Edited by smeagol on Wednesday 12th February 00:05
Pzeros are fine in the dry but the wet grip.....
BTW the point I made about porsche etc. came from a friend that is a tyre specialist (esp Pirellis). I asked about PZeros for the M100 Elan and he pointed out that they weren't going to be that good because the car would be too light. The Elise is even lighter than the Elan.
>> Edited by smeagol on Wednesday 12th February 00:05
I'm with Nick here. I think a lot of these low speed accidents are as a result of people hitting the accelerator/brake too hard or apply power too soon etc. - see the thread NOOOO! - okay its an S2 but the principle (low weight/rear drive etc) is the same.
I'm no slouch with my Elise but the only time I've had any problems was in a couple of inches of snow last month - even then the chassis was shouting instructions at me!
I'm sure the Yoko's are better but these are still good enough for daily drivers like myself.
BTW I'm on PZeros.
>> Edited by alunr on Wednesday 12th February 00:11
I'm no slouch with my Elise but the only time I've had any problems was in a couple of inches of snow last month - even then the chassis was shouting instructions at me!
I'm sure the Yoko's are better but these are still good enough for daily drivers like myself.
BTW I'm on PZeros.
>> Edited by alunr on Wednesday 12th February 00:11
I've got P0's on my 111s (S1) and have had a variety of 'experiences'!!
When it's wet or decently damp you've got to be careful with them. Along as your smooth with your driving (smooth braking (before turning), steering and acceleration) you'll be ok - but this applies to the Elise anyway. You try and bully a Liz in the wet - she'll bite.
In the dry, they're great. At Hullavington Friday and was wet in the morning and the car and I had a few tail wagging moments!! but in the afternoon when it was dry the P0's were great. In summary where the P0's really lose out is in the wet, apparently the Advans are way ahead here (and that's what I'm getting next!!)
THe best way to improve the car though is by improving you. Just one day of instruction will make a massive differwnce to the speed you can drive the car safely at - especially if you're coming from fwd.
When it's wet or decently damp you've got to be careful with them. Along as your smooth with your driving (smooth braking (before turning), steering and acceleration) you'll be ok - but this applies to the Elise anyway. You try and bully a Liz in the wet - she'll bite.
In the dry, they're great. At Hullavington Friday and was wet in the morning and the car and I had a few tail wagging moments!! but in the afternoon when it was dry the P0's were great. In summary where the P0's really lose out is in the wet, apparently the Advans are way ahead here (and that's what I'm getting next!!)
THe best way to improve the car though is by improving you. Just one day of instruction will make a massive differwnce to the speed you can drive the car safely at - especially if you're coming from fwd.
smeagol
no i haven't tried advans - but then i've been happy with the Pzeros & didn't have the necessary £460 knocking about after xmas for a full set.
i'd like to try them one day - but as jo & alun have pointed out a lot resides on driver style.
how many people use the Pzeros as excuses when they spin or fishtail? ALL of them.
how many blame themselves for spinning/fishtailing when running advans? ALL of them.
'nuff said.
nick
no i haven't tried advans - but then i've been happy with the Pzeros & didn't have the necessary £460 knocking about after xmas for a full set.
i'd like to try them one day - but as jo & alun have pointed out a lot resides on driver style.
how many people use the Pzeros as excuses when they spin or fishtail? ALL of them.
how many blame themselves for spinning/fishtailing when running advans? ALL of them.
'nuff said.
nick
I had two sets of P0s and a set of Advans on my S1 for 40k miles. No contest. For road driving in the wet where you don't muild up much temperature the P0s will lock up *so* easily, especially the fronts. I've had the P0s acquaplaining and fishtailing on straight dual carriageways. The Advans are so much better in the wet and at least as good in the dry.
i did brake at about 60 (;-)) when overtaking a car and trying to pull back in behind another car in front - it was wet and as the left hand tyres passed over the white line (broken!!) the left hand side loocked up immediately - bit scary but as someone else said - the chassis started shouting instructions at me straight away! i wonder if the advans would have done that?
nick_houghton said: smeagol
no i haven't tried advans - but then i've been happy with the Pzeros & didn't have the necessary £460 knocking about after xmas for a full set.
i'd like to try them one day - but as jo & alun have pointed out a lot resides on driver style.
Quite agree but wouldn't you prefer a tyre that is better? I certainly will be changing tyres on my mini as I know that the grip is sh*t compared to what the car can do. With the Elise the difference isn't that great but still a sports car should have the best IMHO.
Was the difference between Pzeros and Advans really £460 that seems a bit excessive. Certainly the price difference I've seen between the tyres isn't that great.
how many people use the Pzeros as excuses when they spin or fishtail? ALL of them.
how many blame themselves for spinning/fishtailing when running advans? ALL of them.
'nuff said.
I don't think thats true, I thinks its more common for lots of people to say "I stupidly lost it" and then other drivers say "were you on Pzeros?"
Bought my S1 Sport 160 with P0's fitted since new, seen early signs of aquaplaning but able to control w/o concern. Rear has stepped out a couple of times when wet & accelerating in low gears, especially out of junctions with diesel spilt on road!
One of Don Palmer's driving development days at Bruntingthorpe was excellent fun & super value. My recognition of the limit & how 2 cope with it much higher, Elise contantly makes every journey such fun.
Mileage hit 17k in Dec so decided to fit new P0's on rear, fronts still have loads of meat & wanted 2 retain same make all round. Since fitted grip excellent in wet and the snow/slush, roundabouts are no concern in wet at 30mph.
Have not tried the various Yoko's so cannot comment either way, besides how could I turn down the P0's for £210 fitted (will be happy to provide my contact), Lotus quoted £250 per tyre and Kwik Fit £310!!
One of Don Palmer's driving development days at Bruntingthorpe was excellent fun & super value. My recognition of the limit & how 2 cope with it much higher, Elise contantly makes every journey such fun.
Mileage hit 17k in Dec so decided to fit new P0's on rear, fronts still have loads of meat & wanted 2 retain same make all round. Since fitted grip excellent in wet and the snow/slush, roundabouts are no concern in wet at 30mph.
Have not tried the various Yoko's so cannot comment either way, besides how could I turn down the P0's for £210 fitted (will be happy to provide my contact), Lotus quoted £250 per tyre and Kwik Fit £310!!
I've had several 'events' with the P0's fitted, but 95% of them were provoked by me when driving in cold damp conditions. They seem to be at their worst when it is very cold and the roads have that horrible damp glaze on them. In the rain, they are better but can be pushed over the adhesion limits quite easily. The P0's are essentially a harder compound than the Yokos it seems, and as a result, give good mileage. I have driven a collegues Elise with the Advans and can say they have more bite and predictabilty in the wet, but on the dry stuff theres not much in it. If youre a daily spirited driver who knows their cars limits and you've got a good set of P0's then I'd stick with them. If you like hooning in the rain, get the Yokies.
Agree, when tyres cold and/or road damp/greasy I am more aware not to stamp on the accelerator or carry to much speed through uneven tight bends and roundabouts.
Ultimately, the car has been everthing I expected & some sideways action adds the fun each time I go out in her
My email is down at moment, so cannot send mail. For cheap tyres try [www.merityre.co.uk/], I am not on commission!
Ultimately, the car has been everthing I expected & some sideways action adds the fun each time I go out in her
My email is down at moment, so cannot send mail. For cheap tyres try [www.merityre.co.uk/], I am not on commission!
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