S2 Elise is not a future classic.... Discuss
Discussion
The Elise saved Lotus (well, just for a while at least). It was an instant hit. Everyone loved it. An industry sprang up about it to support the car, as did web sites and discussion rooms like this.
A future classic fr sure.
The S2 divided opinion on looks, on concept, on being 'too soft' etc...
Lotus will before long release an S3 based on their new platform (for the M250/future Esprit etc..). This car will have a better motor, more go as well through wider motor choice through platform sharing.
Will the S2 just be seen as an inbetween, a stop gap? Not an icon, just a an exercise in stretching the point?
What do you think?
A future classic fr sure.
The S2 divided opinion on looks, on concept, on being 'too soft' etc...
Lotus will before long release an S3 based on their new platform (for the M250/future Esprit etc..). This car will have a better motor, more go as well through wider motor choice through platform sharing.
Will the S2 just be seen as an inbetween, a stop gap? Not an icon, just a an exercise in stretching the point?
What do you think?
Agere with Chrome.....though for diferent reasons. I doubt that the car will be remembered because it saved Lotus (just simply cos people have short memories)...however the shape will be. If you look at almost ALL the 'classic' car shapes (Countach discounted) they tend to veer towards the 'rounded' rather than the angular....and the S2 is a bit fussy to be sconsiderd a classic anyway IMHO.....
Why is that every time a car is facelifted, and given the edgier lines it should have always had, it is saddled with the term "Jap Look" and cast aside as irelevant?
This really erks me.
The S2 was one of the other concepts originally forwarded by Thai Prince Thompson before E111 was first launched, but the bosses though it was too progressive (what? after the Elan!).
They should have had the balls to do it in the first place, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
...and what's wrong with the "Jap look" anyway?
Well honed, deliberate sufaces, joined by consistant pinsharp intersections that visually imply what all know is thuth beneath the skin of all Elises.
In truth the S1 is the charletain. It was made to look friendly, to fish people in, but gave very little away about its hard core underpinnings.
If anything, I'd say the E111 did alot to discredit itself through its own looks, and held up the development the Lotus look (you may say Jap) and brand for years.
...I discussed....
Mouse
This really erks me.
The S2 was one of the other concepts originally forwarded by Thai Prince Thompson before E111 was first launched, but the bosses though it was too progressive (what? after the Elan!).
They should have had the balls to do it in the first place, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
...and what's wrong with the "Jap look" anyway?
Well honed, deliberate sufaces, joined by consistant pinsharp intersections that visually imply what all know is thuth beneath the skin of all Elises.
In truth the S1 is the charletain. It was made to look friendly, to fish people in, but gave very little away about its hard core underpinnings.
If anything, I'd say the E111 did alot to discredit itself through its own looks, and held up the development the Lotus look (you may say Jap) and brand for years.
...I discussed....
Mouse
I feel that most of today's cars will not hold up to the test of time... designers just aren't quite as talented as they were back when the Esprit was first introduced. It seems as if designers now try to make cars with too much "future shock" appeal - and that type of look gets old after you see the car more than a few times.
Whether or not it becomes a classic will be governed by future aesthetics and whether or not future driving experience is similar to today's.
I would think the S1 has a decent chance as it was the first and obviously purest incarnation of the Elise. I also think the S1 will date better, the rear of the S2 is a bit of a mess IMHO! Whereas the S1 was spot on, especially the exhaust through the clam design. My guess was that the design brief was to build a track biased car for the road, in the S2 you still have that but it has been diluted, the interior in particular. If you look at some of the long run production cars, especially those attainable my the masses, (e.g mini, landrover, Rang rover (pushing it a bit!), fords etc that have become classic it is nearly always the Mk1s that are the most sought after. I don't think that type of attitude will change in future buying generations.
Cheers
Twit
I would think the S1 has a decent chance as it was the first and obviously purest incarnation of the Elise. I also think the S1 will date better, the rear of the S2 is a bit of a mess IMHO! Whereas the S1 was spot on, especially the exhaust through the clam design. My guess was that the design brief was to build a track biased car for the road, in the S2 you still have that but it has been diluted, the interior in particular. If you look at some of the long run production cars, especially those attainable my the masses, (e.g mini, landrover, Rang rover (pushing it a bit!), fords etc that have become classic it is nearly always the Mk1s that are the most sought after. I don't think that type of attitude will change in future buying generations.
Cheers
Twit
Mouse, don't get me wrong, I think the S2 is mean, angular and sexy, although the lights are a tad oriental. Personally I prefer the cute look of round lamps. That's why so many cars have a real personality 'face' and are so classic - the mini, 911, s1 elise, even the london cab! The front always looks welcoming and cute. A tuscan looks like a bloody insect by comparison. Striking, sure, but odd all the same. Horses and glue etc...
After spending months deliberating whether to buy an S1, S2 or an Exige the following were the main influences in my choice:
S1 - Loved the retro styling - it actually works! - Prices took a dive on S2 introduction, bargains to be had. Also it is the original model. Minimalistic, everything there for a purpose, no froth.
S2 - Sharp styling which I think will date in the future, have warmed to it since orig introduction. Better appointed and better hood action - drawback in my opinion, but accept totally necessary to attract new/upgrading buyers. Much, much better build quality. The consensus is that handling/performance better - I didn't notice any improvement.
Exige - Drive one
and make your own opinions. Many will hate its; noise, lack of roof off, refinement, practicability. But whatever you do make sure you actually drive one it is truly awe inspiring, similarly the 340r.
I think all will be future classics to some degree - but time will be the judge, the Exige/340r will be the most coveted of Elise built to date - but then I would say that!
S1 - Loved the retro styling - it actually works! - Prices took a dive on S2 introduction, bargains to be had. Also it is the original model. Minimalistic, everything there for a purpose, no froth.
S2 - Sharp styling which I think will date in the future, have warmed to it since orig introduction. Better appointed and better hood action - drawback in my opinion, but accept totally necessary to attract new/upgrading buyers. Much, much better build quality. The consensus is that handling/performance better - I didn't notice any improvement.
Exige - Drive one
and make your own opinions. Many will hate its; noise, lack of roof off, refinement, practicability. But whatever you do make sure you actually drive one it is truly awe inspiring, similarly the 340r. I think all will be future classics to some degree - but time will be the judge, the Exige/340r will be the most coveted of Elise built to date - but then I would say that!
The S2 perfected the little niggles the S1 had and it really beefed up the looks - dont get me wrong i like the S1 but i Love the S2 it has more power and a better chassis and handling and i hope the S3 will reflect on the S2 with looks ,handling,lower, wider and More power and the same luxurys as standard as a sport tourer S2.
The S2 is the best lotus Ever - MORE OF THIS PLEASE!
The S2 is the best lotus Ever - MORE OF THIS PLEASE!
hmm, not sure if given his flurry of posts chromeO is an 'S1_troll' or an 'S1_diehard' -will assume the later.
But to his question, I think that if any, the S1 will be the elise that is viewed as classic (re: Classic &Sports Car 08/2) -this was the orig. item, has a certain 60's look, and will prob. exceed the S2 production(if lotus get their act in gear &sort out an S3 for US or a full-on M250)
Imho both look good, but I prefer the s2 -to me it has a more contemporary feel (ferrari?) but as pointed out, this means it will date quicker.
What people want comes down to personal taste and affordability -not everyone can replace their 'cherished' investment every year -the S2 owners are prob. still outnumbered by S1s. Having owned a 1971 MG and then a S1,looks/price stability were superceded by my S2's practicalities/performance -if you want to drive a classic you are likely to miss out on real improvements of modern design.
Both s1/2 are minimalist (although the S2 does give you the option to go a bit shandy and have air-con etc)-from my experience having an S2 roof that was quick(ish) to put up & didn't leak was an improvement (although i was originally seduced by the S2 gull-wing that never happened -shame on lotus).
Clangers post was interesting -what i think i want is a soft-top, 190bhp exige that doesnt leak (S3? -who cares about the cd player?) or a m250 for £35k
tupolev
But to his question, I think that if any, the S1 will be the elise that is viewed as classic (re: Classic &Sports Car 08/2) -this was the orig. item, has a certain 60's look, and will prob. exceed the S2 production(if lotus get their act in gear &sort out an S3 for US or a full-on M250)
Imho both look good, but I prefer the s2 -to me it has a more contemporary feel (ferrari?) but as pointed out, this means it will date quicker.
What people want comes down to personal taste and affordability -not everyone can replace their 'cherished' investment every year -the S2 owners are prob. still outnumbered by S1s. Having owned a 1971 MG and then a S1,looks/price stability were superceded by my S2's practicalities/performance -if you want to drive a classic you are likely to miss out on real improvements of modern design.
Both s1/2 are minimalist (although the S2 does give you the option to go a bit shandy and have air-con etc)-from my experience having an S2 roof that was quick(ish) to put up & didn't leak was an improvement (although i was originally seduced by the S2 gull-wing that never happened -shame on lotus).
Clangers post was interesting -what i think i want is a soft-top, 190bhp exige that doesnt leak (S3? -who cares about the cd player?) or a m250 for £35k
tupolev
My feeling about the S1 has always been that Colin Chapmn did all he could get his Baby to grow up before he left us.
Witness the transition from 6's and Super 7's, through the Elites, Elans, Elcats/Excels to the Esprits. The company was always cutting edge and the cars looked it.
The the S1 came along, and pretty though it undeniabley is, I can't help feeling it undid some of that evolution and took the car back to the look of a well accomplished kit-car rather that the Ferrari bating Brit-supercar Chapman had created.
I agree with the argument that the Elise was intended as a 21st century seven, so the Kit car-ish look is suitable, but this was not a cheap, unacomplished car, but to my mind does look it from some angles.
I'm not having an "under bridge dweller" moment, it's just I've had a bugbear about ths S1 for a long time.
The perfect Elise would be an S2 exterior with an S1 interior. I love the stripped-out S1 interior, but feel the S2 carries it self with a treal touch of class.
I can't really talk though as I will try to persuade anyone who'll listen that S2 CR-X too is a future classic (but only the S2). It to has a sharp, chuckble chassis, not too much weight and middleing power. I think its sharper suit fer better communicates its intent. I love the jap style pokemon face too, which is very similar in expression to to the S1 Elise (you'll think i'm
now). It some mangaed to never get tarred with hot hacth brush (except by the insurers ), and remained a rare sight, that has got be an element in gaining classic status.
Around Cambridge there are more TVR's and Elises than peardrop profiled Hondas. An where did the engine they say will power the next Elise oringate?
So you Elise lovers keep the faith, which ever is yours', and I'll carry on keeping you talking...
Mouse
Witness the transition from 6's and Super 7's, through the Elites, Elans, Elcats/Excels to the Esprits. The company was always cutting edge and the cars looked it.
The the S1 came along, and pretty though it undeniabley is, I can't help feeling it undid some of that evolution and took the car back to the look of a well accomplished kit-car rather that the Ferrari bating Brit-supercar Chapman had created.
I agree with the argument that the Elise was intended as a 21st century seven, so the Kit car-ish look is suitable, but this was not a cheap, unacomplished car, but to my mind does look it from some angles.
I'm not having an "under bridge dweller" moment, it's just I've had a bugbear about ths S1 for a long time.
The perfect Elise would be an S2 exterior with an S1 interior. I love the stripped-out S1 interior, but feel the S2 carries it self with a treal touch of class.
I can't really talk though as I will try to persuade anyone who'll listen that S2 CR-X too is a future classic (but only the S2). It to has a sharp, chuckble chassis, not too much weight and middleing power. I think its sharper suit fer better communicates its intent. I love the jap style pokemon face too, which is very similar in expression to to the S1 Elise (you'll think i'm
now). It some mangaed to never get tarred with hot hacth brush (except by the insurers ), and remained a rare sight, that has got be an element in gaining classic status. Around Cambridge there are more TVR's and Elises than peardrop profiled Hondas. An where did the engine they say will power the next Elise oringate?
So you Elise lovers keep the faith, which ever is yours', and I'll carry on keeping you talking...
Mouse
If I were to buy a lotus it would be the lightest model with the most power. Hi-fi (low-fi!), aircon and puff all add unnecesary mass. This brings the decision down to a used Exige at 25k v new Sport 190 at 36k. Both the same power and soundtrack, both similar weight and similar handling. This just leaves the issue of hard top v soft top. Personally I would go for staying dry in the wet months, so the Exige wins here. Also the Exige has already gone through a 10k price dip due to depreciation, making it great value. So is it worth paying 10k more to get wet and have a shiny new car? Maybe, maybe not.
What does make it a trickier decision though, is the arrival of Turbo Technics offerings. If the S2 is your bag, then a used newish 111s with 8k of TT fettling will see 220bhp. Mmmm, very nice indeed. Quicker than the other two options, better everyday too I'm sure.
And don't forget the Honda S2000 options coming out. 250bhp of reliable power.
Bugger it, I'm confused now. Anyway, there all bloody tasty cars. Go for what you want I guess. Wet v dry, hot v cool, comfy v thrilling, mundane exhaust note v thrilling. Mmm....
What does make it a trickier decision though, is the arrival of Turbo Technics offerings. If the S2 is your bag, then a used newish 111s with 8k of TT fettling will see 220bhp. Mmmm, very nice indeed. Quicker than the other two options, better everyday too I'm sure.
And don't forget the Honda S2000 options coming out. 250bhp of reliable power.
Bugger it, I'm confused now. Anyway, there all bloody tasty cars. Go for what you want I guess. Wet v dry, hot v cool, comfy v thrilling, mundane exhaust note v thrilling. Mmm....
I like both, but when you see a S1 next to an s2 it looks old fashioned.
Take the s1's crude boot vents, compared to the dersigned ones of the s2. Check the build quality and compare the two cars, I guess Vauxhall funded the quality improvement program.
I think they will both be looked back upon as classic roadsters but personally i think the s2 is the (marginally) better looking car.
Bennno
Take the s1's crude boot vents, compared to the dersigned ones of the s2. Check the build quality and compare the two cars, I guess Vauxhall funded the quality improvement program.
I think they will both be looked back upon as classic roadsters but personally i think the s2 is the (marginally) better looking car.
Bennno
I think Both will become classics for different reasons the S1 was the original and cant be touched it lived 6 years and nobody was sick of it when it finnished!
The S2 is the way forward for lotus and the S2 will give styling cues to lotuses for the next 10 years i hope the S3 retains the S2 look but with loads more power,s tourer interior, stiffer suspension to become the car between the Esprit/M250 whatever comes and hopefully a smaller lighter car retaining the look of the S1 focused more for trackdays - HOPEFULLY
The S2 is the way forward for lotus and the S2 will give styling cues to lotuses for the next 10 years i hope the S3 retains the S2 look but with loads more power,s tourer interior, stiffer suspension to become the car between the Esprit/M250 whatever comes and hopefully a smaller lighter car retaining the look of the S1 focused more for trackdays - HOPEFULLY
S1. At first I didn't like the S2 but's I'm getting used to it. I'd like it more if all the slats dissappeared and were replaced with something more subtle.
The only problem with the S1 is that the front half and rear half don't always seem to match. The rear looks macho and the front sometimes looks a bit feminine.
One things for sure, the VX220 will not be a good looking car in 10, 50 or a 100 years time!
The only problem with the S1 is that the front half and rear half don't always seem to match. The rear looks macho and the front sometimes looks a bit feminine.
One things for sure, the VX220 will not be a good looking car in 10, 50 or a 100 years time!
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff