Ohlins or nitrons for s2
Discussion
I realise that many people have discussed the various merits of nitrons on s1's and S2's. I have a set of oz's with yoko 048's for track. Does anyone have experience of comparing the nitrons to the 2 way adjustable Ohlins - as on the 240r wrt:
1) Handling on the track
2) Ride quality on the road. I considered the LSS as on the 135R - great for track, but too stiff for the roads imho. Car bounces too much on rough surfaces.
3) Are the ohlin's worth the extra money? Knowing myself, I will end up having a standard road setting for the normal tyres, and a track setting for the OZ's.
Any advice on the comparison would be appreciated.
1) Handling on the track
2) Ride quality on the road. I considered the LSS as on the 135R - great for track, but too stiff for the roads imho. Car bounces too much on rough surfaces.
3) Are the ohlin's worth the extra money? Knowing myself, I will end up having a standard road setting for the normal tyres, and a track setting for the OZ's.
Any advice on the comparison would be appreciated.
IMO - no - you dont need 2 way adjustable unless you are a chassis setup guru - 1 way Nitrons are just fine.
as for 2 - completely agree and the reason why I upgraded to Nitrons. Im running stiffer springs than the norm - 400/550lb ...my car is a little heavier at 835Kg and the ride quality on the road is far better than the LSS...on track, with the damping wound up it will be much better too.
LSS is just a compromise and the Ohlins are great, but I wouldnt pay £500 more for 2 way adjustable over 1 way unless you really are experienced at what you are doing - having one knob to play with is bad enough
as for 2 - completely agree and the reason why I upgraded to Nitrons. Im running stiffer springs than the norm - 400/550lb ...my car is a little heavier at 835Kg and the ride quality on the road is far better than the LSS...on track, with the damping wound up it will be much better too.
LSS is just a compromise and the Ohlins are great, but I wouldnt pay £500 more for 2 way adjustable over 1 way unless you really are experienced at what you are doing - having one knob to play with is bad enough
Thanks bogie - I was initially set on the nitrons, then the lotus guys at hethel spent a great deal of effort slagging them off - vested interest perhaps? I know I do no need the 2 ways in terms of adjustability - fine to adjust the damping, but everything else would be left as is.
So you don't feel there is any handling advantage of the ohlins vs the nitrons - especially not worth the £500 difference? I was interested to find that Andy Walsh was involved in setting up the S2 nitrons. He knows a thing or two about car handling!
So you don't feel there is any handling advantage of the ohlins vs the nitrons - especially not worth the £500 difference? I was interested to find that Andy Walsh was involved in setting up the S2 nitrons. He knows a thing or two about car handling!
The problem with chatting to the lotus guys is that they will only endorse OEM equipment. They emphasised the virtues of the LSS suspension, yet while it is great on a smooth track, it sucks on B-roads. They are never going to endorse a non lotus product. The track gurus seem to have an even split of ohlins and nitrons. Some top GT cars are running on ohlins.
The other thing I was considering is that I am probably too idle to set up 2 or 3 ways. I could just about manage the damper settings. I would fork the extra £500 for ohlins if they really are going to be that much better. Thats what I want to find out.
The other thing I was considering is that I am probably too idle to set up 2 or 3 ways. I could just about manage the damper settings. I would fork the extra £500 for ohlins if they really are going to be that much better. Thats what I want to find out.
"Thanks bogie - I was initially set on the nitrons, then the lotus guys at hethel spent a great deal of effort slagging them off - vested interest perhaps?"
yep - they only back the factory stuff as usual...and look what that got you with fecking LSS
Nitrons can be rebuilt/serviced for £50 each, you then get the warranty renewed on them...so effectively shocks for ever if you do this every few years.
If you have a money no-object budget then get a full Pilbeam set up - if you just want top quality adjustable stuff then get Nitrons.
Nothing wrong with Ohlins at all...other than the price
yep - they only back the factory stuff as usual...and look what that got you with fecking LSS
Nitrons can be rebuilt/serviced for £50 each, you then get the warranty renewed on them...so effectively shocks for ever if you do this every few years.
If you have a money no-object budget then get a full Pilbeam set up - if you just want top quality adjustable stuff then get Nitrons.
Nothing wrong with Ohlins at all...other than the price
Are you saying that 1 "quality damper" is the same as another? The valving on the LSS, ohlins and nitrons (for the elise), were specifically set up for the car. LSS set up by lotus, nitrons in part by andy walsh, ohlins presumably also by lotus. The LSS dampers are not adjustable like the ohlins or the nitrons. I do not want to have to buy a set of dampers and then have to play with the valving. I want them to work "out of the box" with just the damper settings to have to adjust. More than this and I might be making things worse.
Many other aftermarket dampers have 'one size fits all' valving so the adjuster goes all the way from nothing at all to rock solid. You might have forty clicks on the adjuster but most of them are pretty much unusable. With Nitrons the valves will be set to give you a sensible range of adjustment for your application. If you want to use them for a very different application (for example, massively changing the spring rate) then you would need to have the valving changed. I do not want to do this.
Many other aftermarket dampers have 'one size fits all' valving so the adjuster goes all the way from nothing at all to rock solid. You might have forty clicks on the adjuster but most of them are pretty much unusable. With Nitrons the valves will be set to give you a sensible range of adjustment for your application. If you want to use them for a very different application (for example, massively changing the spring rate) then you would need to have the valving changed. I do not want to do this.
You are the one who mentioned valving. I am not trying to suggest that valving is simply a matter turning the damper setting. The valving of say a nitron for a TVR will be different out of the box to say an elise etc etc. I took this to be a fixed feature on the damper that would have a range of adjustability. What I would like is a damper set up for the car that is valved appropriately off the shelf and has a range of adjustability say between a track setting and a useable road setting. I am not likely to be getting an advantage from the 2 or 3 way ohlins as I would likely be only adjusting the compression/rebound once they had been set up by the dealer / plans.
Ironically the LSS suspension is in very much the same price league as the nitrons, but I have never been that impressed by it. This has now gotten way complicated. All I was interested in finding out, was that of the two, ohlins or nitrons, set up properly, which would offer the best performance on track with good levels of grip and ride comfort on the road by softening the damping settings. That was all I was asking. Bogie gave a very informative response and you went on to call the debate pointless and said it was all about "valving and service". I am now even more baffled thatn when I started the post. Given the choices for the S2 elise, I have narrowed it down to 2 and am simply trying to get informed feedback on people's experience before throwing down over a grand. I am by no means learned here and would appreciate honest advice.
>> Edited by shangani on Saturday 29th October 21:25
Ironically the LSS suspension is in very much the same price league as the nitrons, but I have never been that impressed by it. This has now gotten way complicated. All I was interested in finding out, was that of the two, ohlins or nitrons, set up properly, which would offer the best performance on track with good levels of grip and ride comfort on the road by softening the damping settings. That was all I was asking. Bogie gave a very informative response and you went on to call the debate pointless and said it was all about "valving and service". I am now even more baffled thatn when I started the post. Given the choices for the S2 elise, I have narrowed it down to 2 and am simply trying to get informed feedback on people's experience before throwing down over a grand. I am by no means learned here and would appreciate honest advice.
>> Edited by shangani on Saturday 29th October 21:25
you sound to me like your making this much harder than you need to?
Ohlins make all sorts of dampers, the onles Lotus are pushing are just one of the std Ohlin types that have been configured and valved accoringly (as in to what Lotus probably asked for) in the same way that LSS is made by Bilstien.
Nitron are much the same, they have a range of dampers that can be made in several configurations and valving depending on the application.
Guy has been working on Elise dampers for several years now, and with the help and feedback fom people like Andy Walsh/Steve Gugliemi/etc. over the years, they have deleloped the product to suit most needs (and this has not stopped, I have been runnign their 3 ways for this year and between us, we are fine-tunning the setup for race appliaction).
the real question for you is EXACTLY what you want them for.
the bit to remeber is that whist dampers can be adjustable, springs arn't, and dampers are no substitute for springs (this is part of the reason why LSS is the way it is, they were trying to give a sporty feel without the spring rate, thus you end up with a very harsh damper that's hopless on the road and under-sprung on the track.
in simple terms, the damper controls the speed of change, ie. how harsh the ride is and how fast the car can pitch/react to stuff.
the spring is there to hold the car up, stiffer springs = less wheel travel (for a given load).
for example, if you want to lower the car, you MUST increase the spring rate accorindingly to limit the wheel travel, otherwise you will be on the bump rubbers all the time.
now, no amlounbg of me or anybody else writing this stuff is going to tell you what you need/want. only way really is to go and try other cars with the varius options fitted.
for an S2, road only car on non A048's, I would suggest ~350/425Lb springs on single way Nitrons, with the adjuster set to 18 clicks from full hard (ie. almost full soft). that said, you really need to drive a car like this to decide.
other point to remeber, springs are cheap, dampers are not, if you don't like the choice of spring, it's no big deal to change them, this is prefferable to try and get the dampers to make up for a poor spring setup.
Ohlins make all sorts of dampers, the onles Lotus are pushing are just one of the std Ohlin types that have been configured and valved accoringly (as in to what Lotus probably asked for) in the same way that LSS is made by Bilstien.
Nitron are much the same, they have a range of dampers that can be made in several configurations and valving depending on the application.
Guy has been working on Elise dampers for several years now, and with the help and feedback fom people like Andy Walsh/Steve Gugliemi/etc. over the years, they have deleloped the product to suit most needs (and this has not stopped, I have been runnign their 3 ways for this year and between us, we are fine-tunning the setup for race appliaction).
the real question for you is EXACTLY what you want them for.
the bit to remeber is that whist dampers can be adjustable, springs arn't, and dampers are no substitute for springs (this is part of the reason why LSS is the way it is, they were trying to give a sporty feel without the spring rate, thus you end up with a very harsh damper that's hopless on the road and under-sprung on the track.
in simple terms, the damper controls the speed of change, ie. how harsh the ride is and how fast the car can pitch/react to stuff.
the spring is there to hold the car up, stiffer springs = less wheel travel (for a given load).
for example, if you want to lower the car, you MUST increase the spring rate accorindingly to limit the wheel travel, otherwise you will be on the bump rubbers all the time.
now, no amlounbg of me or anybody else writing this stuff is going to tell you what you need/want. only way really is to go and try other cars with the varius options fitted.
for an S2, road only car on non A048's, I would suggest ~350/425Lb springs on single way Nitrons, with the adjuster set to 18 clicks from full hard (ie. almost full soft). that said, you really need to drive a car like this to decide.
other point to remeber, springs are cheap, dampers are not, if you don't like the choice of spring, it's no big deal to change them, this is prefferable to try and get the dampers to make up for a poor spring setup.
Thanks a ton - that is really useful info. I have a set of O48's on OZ's that I got on Ebay a year or so ago. I thought it too expensive to run them all the time on the road, so have used them on the track a couple of times, but they really do not work with the standard suspension. Hence the need for an upgrade of suspension. The problem is that there are few opportunities to drive cars with the suspension mods - especially with the number of elise variants around. I drove the 135r and did not like the ride or handling on rough roads. The nitrons are pretty decent on the road with what I have experienced so far. I am pretty sure also that they will be capable enough for the sort of track work I do, as well as my limited ability compared to the committed racers. It would be nice to be able to use the 048's on track. I was told that I would have to opt for stiffer springs - much in the range you mentioned.
Nice to hear from guys with experience.
Looks as though I will be headed for the one way nitrons in "bang for buck terms".
Thanks a ton for taking the time to reply.
Cheers
Nice to hear from guys with experience.
Looks as though I will be headed for the one way nitrons in "bang for buck terms".
Thanks a ton for taking the time to reply.
Cheers
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