Just been in an Elise
Discussion
My freinds dad has bought an Elise and I've just been out in it.
Very dissapointed, we were trundling along nicely at 70 and went to overtake something and brrrrrrrr it just didn't go, to get from 70-100 took about a week, ok sorry bit of an exaggeration, but it was pretty slow.
Sorry i'm all dissapointed now, I used to really like them, and they are horrible of tall people getting in and out but i'm not fussed about that, used to it with the westfield!
Very dissapointed, we were trundling along nicely at 70 and went to overtake something and brrrrrrrr it just didn't go, to get from 70-100 took about a week, ok sorry bit of an exaggeration, but it was pretty slow.
Sorry i'm all dissapointed now, I used to really like them, and they are horrible of tall people getting in and out but i'm not fussed about that, used to it with the westfield!
I had a v similar experience in a mates Lotus Elise S1 (i think it was the 120 bhp one). I was v disappointed with its straight line go.
I have always looked forward to buying a 2 seater sports car and will hopefully be in that position within a year.
I know that its a vastly more amusing driving experience than my little 106 Gti, but that lotus was not much quicker in a straight line (serveral races proved that point - he always won, but was only about 5 cars lengths ahead at 100)
I have always looked forward to buying a 2 seater sports car and will hopefully be in that position within a year.
I know that its a vastly more amusing driving experience than my little 106 Gti, but that lotus was not much quicker in a straight line (serveral races proved that point - he always won, but was only about 5 cars lengths ahead at 100)
Very dissapointed, we were trundling along nicely at 70 and went to overtake something and brrrrrrrr it just didn't go, to get from 70-100 took about a week, ok sorry bit of an exaggeration, but it was pretty slow.
The motorway is *not* the Elise's domain. For that work it simply is underpowered.It's still only a 120hp 1.8 engine in stock form.
I guess your friend didn't take you out on some twisties? This is where the car really shines.On the motorway it's boooooring..
The Elise is not in the least about straight-line speed or traffic-light sprints (get a TVR for those jobs please. It will do a much better job), but take it on the track or around some mountain roads and you'll be grinning like mad.
Rigt tools for the right job and all that..
If you can live with even less practicality and better handling then a Caterham or similar is really crazy fun. (or some of the bike-powered maniacal machines)
Bye, Arno.
Drop it down 2 gears! Most people are "scared" of dropping down 2 gears in an elise - but it's where it excells. If you are wandering along at 70 in 5th - getting to 100 in 5th will take an age and a year.
Drop it down to 3rd (with the appropiate throttle *stab* (bit more than a blip)), then floor it, snatch 4th, and before you know it you'll be at 110+ if you aren't careful.....
The elise is one of those cars that really only comes alive in the 4.5-6.25krpm range.
Cue old stories about original tubo esprits - they were just the same in long gears. 5th is for getting 40mpg - not for having fun
If you've ever been out in an S2000 you'll know all about dropping down 2 (or in some cases 3!) gears....
J
Drop it down to 3rd (with the appropiate throttle *stab* (bit more than a blip)), then floor it, snatch 4th, and before you know it you'll be at 110+ if you aren't careful.....
The elise is one of those cars that really only comes alive in the 4.5-6.25krpm range.
Cue old stories about original tubo esprits - they were just the same in long gears. 5th is for getting 40mpg - not for having fun
If you've ever been out in an S2000 you'll know all about dropping down 2 (or in some cases 3!) gears....
J
He did talk about changing down 2 gears but said that his work collegue (inspiration for buying) did that once and blew the head gasket. And as he had only just got the car didn't want to blow the gasket, I think he may try it sometime though, when it's on it's way out perhaps.
>> Edited by Graham.J on Friday 8th November 23:08
>> Edited by Graham.J on Friday 8th November 23:08
I know that feeling well, never happened to me, but there is always that niggling feeling that it could happen anytime.
I think all Lotus Elise owners have to drive it in a mechanically sympathetic way since they aren't built with any 'toughness' in mind. If only we can get that new Honda engine conversion over here then Elise owners would be able to thrash their cars with little worry. (plus have some power/speed at last!)
I think all Lotus Elise owners have to drive it in a mechanically sympathetic way since they aren't built with any 'toughness' in mind. If only we can get that new Honda engine conversion over here then Elise owners would be able to thrash their cars with little worry. (plus have some power/speed at last!)
The K series engine just loves to be pushed - it is not a fragile engine!! It will stand tweaking (at considerable expense!)to 210bhp no probs without super/turbo assistance (revving in 8 to 8.5k range) so output in std Elise 118bhp = one v lightly stressed unit. Elise is about handling not outright speed. If its straightline speed you crave recommend look elsewhere.
Sorry clanger may I suggest you read the comments in this thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=3&f=0&t=10735&h=0&hw=tuning+k+series
Esp the comments made by Peejay who clearly knows a lot about engines.
The K-series engine is underpowered and not an out and out performance engine, above 190bhp reliability becomes an issue. Also my experience of the Exige/160 etc. is that the car does not run smoothly with more power (tracked all over the place in idle)
I'm not slagging the Elise I think its a fantastic car but the biggest complaint is that it is underpowered. Lotus responded to that by releasing more powerful engines. (then going and making the S2 with 118bhp, doh!). IMHO I think uderpowering the car is a problem ie the quick overtake of numpty doing 40 on NSL doesn't inspire confidence.
Its not just the Elise though the M100 Elan (my wonderful x-car) was excellent at everything apart from out and out power. Lotus seem to do this a lot and its a shame.
>> Edited by smeagol on Saturday 9th November 00:45
Esp the comments made by Peejay who clearly knows a lot about engines.
The K-series engine is underpowered and not an out and out performance engine, above 190bhp reliability becomes an issue. Also my experience of the Exige/160 etc. is that the car does not run smoothly with more power (tracked all over the place in idle)
I'm not slagging the Elise I think its a fantastic car but the biggest complaint is that it is underpowered. Lotus responded to that by releasing more powerful engines. (then going and making the S2 with 118bhp, doh!). IMHO I think uderpowering the car is a problem ie the quick overtake of numpty doing 40 on NSL doesn't inspire confidence.
Its not just the Elise though the M100 Elan (my wonderful x-car) was excellent at everything apart from out and out power. Lotus seem to do this a lot and its a shame.
>> Edited by smeagol on Saturday 9th November 00:45
GrahamJ, give your mates dad a chance to get used to the car a little more, then ask him to take you out for a blast. He probably just is not driving it quite as it was designed yet. You know new toy and all that, you tend to go steady at first.
You have to really work the gears, keep the engine revving high, once he has cracked this it will be far more fun.
It depends what your used to really, no good expecting the straightline performance of a TVR or such. For all you out there with some bandwidth you may be interested to see how an elise does against a F40;
www.tvrfreak.com/Albums/Video/Auto/Lotus/Elise%20vs.%20F40.mpeg
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Mark
You have to really work the gears, keep the engine revving high, once he has cracked this it will be far more fun.
It depends what your used to really, no good expecting the straightline performance of a TVR or such. For all you out there with some bandwidth you may be interested to see how an elise does against a F40;
www.tvrfreak.com/Albums/Video/Auto/Lotus/Elise%20vs.%20F40.mpeg
--
Mark
Sorry Smeagol must disagree, out and out top speed not what any current or previous Lotus about - about chassis engineering and balance. I have an Exige (190bhp - and recent Lotus recall has sorted the lumpy running out), also have a M100SE (vastly under-rated car) which I use on a daily basis. More than sufficient power available in both for me. Standard Elise is a jewel and in the price band is IMHO unrivalled.
My personal experience of K series engine, to date, has been excellent. Yes there are now probably better, more suitable engines available and I will no doubt in the future consider upgrading one day - who knows.
My personal experience of K series engine, to date, has been excellent. Yes there are now probably better, more suitable engines available and I will no doubt in the future consider upgrading one day - who knows.
adeewuff said: I know that feeling well, never happened to me, but there is always that niggling feeling that it could happen anytime.
I think all Lotus Elise owners have to drive it in a mechanically sympathetic way since they aren't built with any 'toughness' in mind.
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Eh? I thrash mine all the time. 31000 miles total, 20000 down to me and not a hint of engine trouble. Nothing. Nada. Absolutely no problems at all with the engine. It's a bit lumpy at lows revs but that's because I've had a few upgrades and the stock ECU struggles to cope. I've lost gears once due to a problem with the gear linkage which also happened on my Dad's old Rover 214i. The starter motor might need changing soon. I rev it all the time, occasionally hit the rev limiter on track days and it's never overheated, no blown head gaskets, nothing. Trips to Spain in hot weather, trips to the Lakes in snow, no problems.
Graham, I think the crap experience you had is down to the driver simply not trying to show you what the car is about, and I thought you would have realised that seeing as you are a subscriber to the small engine, light car school of motoring (I mean your Westie not Land Rover!). Although the 111S pulls a lot better than the standard car from 70 to 100 as Arno said, it's BORING and not where I get my kicks.
Where the Elise shines is on small twisty hilly roads, in the 5-7000rpm rev band. You can't buy a car like that and drive it like you're worried it's gonna blow the head gasket if you thrash it. Buy a Daewoo if you're gonna think like that!
Honestly, some people!
Where the Elise shines is on small twisty hilly roads, in the 5-7000rpm rev band. You can't buy a car like that and drive it like you're worried it's gonna blow the head gasket if you thrash it. Buy a Daewoo if you're gonna think like that!
Honestly, some people!
clanger said: Sorry Smeagol must disagree, out and out top speed not what any current or previous Lotus about - about chassis engineering and balance. I have an Exige (190bhp - and recent Lotus recall has sorted the lumpy running out), also have a M100SE (vastly under-rated car) which I use on a daily basis. More than sufficient power available in both for me. Standard Elise is a jewel and in the price band is IMHO unrivalled.
My personal experience of K series engine, to date, has been excellent. Yes there are now probably better, more suitable engines available and I will no doubt in the future consider upgrading one day - who knows.
I don't actually think we are in disagreement. The power argument is not about top speed its how it gets there. My experience of the Elise was that it simply didn't have the kick it needed to zoom past the numpty on the road. Indeed the m100 with the turbo kicking in was better from 40+ than the Elise IMHO but even that I felt wasn't that quick. (compared to say a svenesk, Ultima, tvr etc.) Before I sold it my only critism of the m100 Elan was that it lacked power. (I even looked into upgrading to 200bhp)
The run-in 190 Exige I had to play with was uninspiring, sorry to say. I thought I would love it but it simply looks the dogs dangly bits but didn't feel quick. Knowing the strengths of Lotus I drove it on the country roads which I knew very well and it simply didn't punch out of the corners.
Lotus has always been about handling but Chapmans cars were also often the fastest as well (using the old performance through lack of weight principal). The Elise started as the light weight sports car and really a modern version of the seven. I think they are losing their way. The K-series engine with 118bhp was the wrong choice IMHO (even the Elan had 165bhp), at the time there weren't that many alternatives but for the heavier S2 there are a lot more.
The Elise deserves more power (NB not massive top speed, I agree thats not what a Lotus is about) it should easily force you back in your seat and overtake even the most enthusiastic hot-hatch. At the moment it doesn't which as I say is a real shame.
smeagol said:The Elise deserves more power (NB not massive top speed, I agree thats not what a Lotus is about) it should easily force you back in your seat and overtake even the most enthusiastic hot-hatch. At the moment it doesn't which as I say is a real shame.
Err - you must be driving it wrong..... Comparing the Elise with the Noble (which really does throw you back into your seat) - the elise is still good between 40-80/90 - really only not giving a kick above ~90.
However, it's all about gears and matching the revs to the road speed on the way down in my experience - where as the Noble you just floor the throttle and hang on
Honestly the Exige nearly shoves you through the seat into the engine compartment - power a plenty, but you've really got to use the revs above 5k to achieve max performance - I'm still awestruck at how good the acceleration is - top speed is of little interest to me.
M100 above 60mph just pulls and pulls - 3rd gear is an absolute gem. Std Elise is no sloutch either and leaves the M100 in its wake to 60/70 mph, then M100 will begin to gain as you'd expect with their respective power/wt ratios..
M100 above 60mph just pulls and pulls - 3rd gear is an absolute gem. Std Elise is no sloutch either and leaves the M100 in its wake to 60/70 mph, then M100 will begin to gain as you'd expect with their respective power/wt ratios..
adeewuff said: I know that feeling well, never happened to me, but there is always that niggling feeling that it could happen anytime.
I think all Lotus Elise owners have to drive it in a mechanically sympathetic way since they aren't built with any 'toughness' in mind. If only we can get that new Honda engine conversion over here then Elise owners would be able to thrash their cars with little worry. (plus have some power/speed at last!)
What absolute BS, nobody I know shows their cars excessive (or any) mechanical sympathy and very few people suffer any mechanical problems, with the engine or the car in general. That would include 10+ cars with an average of 30K miles each . . . all regularly tracked, driven all year round . . .
In comparison to some other marques (say later TVR's with the straight 6 TVR handgrenade engine) the Elise is an exceptionally robust and reliable car.
Fd
I've thrashed 2 S2's now - not one mechanical fault ever in 2 years, just a few minor niggles with the first one (early build).
My current S2 has a B&C 160 engine mod, makes it pull much better above 70. The standard is a little weedy over 70, but not that bad if driven correctly.
I am yet to meet a passenger who is not impressed with the speed - graham, your driver must have been very cautious. A standard elise will have all but the most hardened supercar fanatics grinning like a w@nking monkey
My current S2 has a B&C 160 engine mod, makes it pull much better above 70. The standard is a little weedy over 70, but not that bad if driven correctly.
I am yet to meet a passenger who is not impressed with the speed - graham, your driver must have been very cautious. A standard elise will have all but the most hardened supercar fanatics grinning like a w@nking monkey
Joust no I didn't drive it wrong, on the track I was as quick as the Lotus guy at Hethel (my fathers words not mine) he had the tail sliding out I was just nice and smooth. Even on the Lotus track straight the car ran out of puff (and its not that big a track). I said to the guy when we were flat out "is that it?"
The Exige only gives any performance above 5k and even then its not that great although of all the Lotus derivatives its the best by a long way.
No disrespect Clanger but have you been in other high performance cars. May I suggest you go in an Ultima, porsche, TR6, or even a powerful westfield/caterham. Under full throttle you would feel the difference (honestly). The exige doesn't even come close.
If you just look at the figures from Evo: The standard Elise takes 18.5 and the S218.9 to get to 100. Thats not that good. The standard Elise takes 6.1s to reach sixty that means its takes a further 12seconds to increase speed by 40mph. Its that figure that gives you the ooph past the car. In country lane driving that is vital as you always catch up someone doing 30 on the corners and 60 on the straights which you want to get past. Its the same problem as teh Elan ie all over them in the corners but can't just nip past on a short straight.
Quite agree and I think thats the point clanger the Elise should never be caught by the Elan, the elan was a comfortable cruiser which weighed a lot more than the Elise. I was genuinely interested in the Elise, I was prepared to get wet etc. for the joys of the performance, and I can see why Graham J who is used to westfields performance was disappointed, I was the same.
I'm not putting down the Elise as a performance car it is a brilliant drive no doubt about it but it could be better. Lotus themsleves kept releasing the next version with more power and even in your profile Clanger you mention you may go the TT conversion route.
Graham if you get the chance go in an Exige far better, now if only I could get into a TT version
The Exige only gives any performance above 5k and even then its not that great although of all the Lotus derivatives its the best by a long way.
clanger said: Honestly the Exige nearly shoves you through the seat into the engine compartment - power a plenty, but you've really got to use the revs above 5k to achieve max performance - I'm still awestruck at how good the acceleration is - top speed is of little interest to me.
No disrespect Clanger but have you been in other high performance cars. May I suggest you go in an Ultima, porsche, TR6, or even a powerful westfield/caterham. Under full throttle you would feel the difference (honestly). The exige doesn't even come close.
If you just look at the figures from Evo: The standard Elise takes 18.5 and the S218.9 to get to 100. Thats not that good. The standard Elise takes 6.1s to reach sixty that means its takes a further 12seconds to increase speed by 40mph. Its that figure that gives you the ooph past the car. In country lane driving that is vital as you always catch up someone doing 30 on the corners and 60 on the straights which you want to get past. Its the same problem as teh Elan ie all over them in the corners but can't just nip past on a short straight.
M100 above 60mph just pulls and pulls - 3rd gear is an absolute gem. Std Elise is no sloutch either and leaves the M100 in its wake to 60/70 mph, then M100 will begin to gain as you'd expect with their respective power/wt ratios..
Quite agree and I think thats the point clanger the Elise should never be caught by the Elan, the elan was a comfortable cruiser which weighed a lot more than the Elise. I was genuinely interested in the Elise, I was prepared to get wet etc. for the joys of the performance, and I can see why Graham J who is used to westfields performance was disappointed, I was the same.
I'm not putting down the Elise as a performance car it is a brilliant drive no doubt about it but it could be better. Lotus themsleves kept releasing the next version with more power and even in your profile Clanger you mention you may go the TT conversion route.
Graham if you get the chance go in an Exige far better, now if only I could get into a TT version
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