S2 Brake upgrades

[jitsukadave]

I know a lot of people say the braided brake lines do wonders for the car, and I happy to put the extra time in to make sure they stay in good nick. However, if I was after a whole lot more stopping power, which way should I start out for?

Better pads, better discs, better calippers, bigger brake system?

This is all theoretical, but as I'm after a supercharged Honda type-R powerplant, I want to know it can stop.

[arno]

Only 1 answer: bigger/wider/stickier tyres.

These determine how hard you can brake as they provide your friction to the road surface. The rest (pads, discs, etc.) are more about control and feedback improvement.

Upgrade to LSS size wheels (195/50R16 front) and uprated suspension and you'll notice a massive difference in how hard you can brake without locking up compared to the original 175 front tyres.

Once a wheel locks up you won't get any better braking, so putting more agressive pads or bigger brakes on the car while retaining the 175 front tyres is futile.

Bye, Arno.

[bogie]

braided lines give better feel...but only really noticiable if you are suffering a spongey pedal after a few laps on circuit.

If you have std discs and they dont need replacing then best bet is just to change pads

Road/Track use then Pagid RS-42s (blue colour - Lotus Motorsport fit these)

Trackday superstar then Pagid RS-14s - these tend to squeal a bit on the road when cold

Disc wise - when they are worn out fit ally belled AP rotors from www.eliseparts.com

no point in fitting big calipers etc - will cost you £3k and you'll more than likely end up with an on/off switch for a brake pedal...I had a go in a development car with some aftermarket 6 pots on - far too grabby, no feel, well out of balance...waste of money on an Elise IMO

[Tupolev]

i've had similar issues with stopping the s2 and as arno said.
1)TYRES (and in an S2 go for wider on the front)
2) technique/practice -stamp on the brakes and they will lock, be progressive and modulate and you will stop quicker.
3) braided hoses will improve feel and pagids(i run 42's) will improve bite on wet disks compared to the oem.

or option 4) upgrade to a lardy 111r and use the abs which compensates for 1,2 &3
cheers
tup

[cfoster]

What type of tyres can you fit on a STD S2 rim then to make them wider?

Or do you need to buy a new set of wheels?

[jitsukadave]

bogie said:

braided lines give better feel...but only really noticiable if you are suffering a spongey pedal after a few laps on circuit.

Do you notice any fade on the road?
The test drives I did weren't what you'd call hard or fast, so while I did get a feel for the braking power, I didn't really ever find out how well they can stand up.

My current car, and the misses' car both suffer brake fade on some of the local blatts, and whilst it is harder driving, we don't push the speed very hard as it's still a public road.

[sja]

cfoster said:

What type of tyres can you fit on a STD S2 rim then to make them wider? Or do you need to buy a new set of wheels?

Yeah I would be interested to know that as well, would you need a geo change? And do Lotus do a larger wheel for 111s to match tyre or are you limited to a small increase in tyre size? I think 185 has been qouted somewhere on here, not sure how much difference that would make?

[Arno]

Both 185/50R16 and 195/50R16 do fit on the normal front wheels.

With 195 it does get a little 'tight', but it's still OK to fit on a 5.5J wide wheel.

For track use 195 does tend to overwhelm the regular front suspension somewhat and it feels bouncy on longer fast corners, but for road use it's fine IMHO.

Bye, Arno.

[sja]

Great thanks Arno, another daft question though..
Love my car to bits (obviously) but it does understeer and in my own opinion its not as stable at the front as I would like. So fitting a couple of new 195's on the front would help this? Looked on mytyres and they have Potenza RE 88 195/60 R15 88V. Would be £100 for two fitted. Seems like a small price to pay if it would solve my issues. Anyone think this is ok? I dont do track days in my car yet..

[gfun]

sja said:

Great thanks Arno, another daft question though.. Love my car to bits (obviously) but it does understeer and in my own opinion its not as stable at the front as I would like. So fitting a couple of new 195's on the front would help this? Looked on mytyres and they have Potenza RE 88 195/60 R15 88V. Would be £100 for two fitted. Seems like a small price to pay if it would solve my issues. Anyone think this is ok? I dont do track days in my car yet..

Think the down side for none track use will be when it rains, as you will have reduced the pressure that the tyer has on the road.

A bigger ‘foot print’ gives a lower pressure so it will not clear the water so well giving even more understeer in the wet.

This could make the car interesting as it would give a big contrast between wet and dry condtions.

[sja]

So not a good idea then...

[MJK 24]

sja said:

So not a good idea then...

I've got 185/50 R16 Dunlop Sport SP9000's on the front (with matching standard sized rears) on my S2. There's a fraction less understeer at the front, much more predictable on the limit and far superior wet weather grip. On;y downside is that they need a good 600 - 700 miles to bed in.

Seem to get the advantages of a 195 front tyre without the disadvantages.

Much cheaper thann Bridgestones too. Budget £340 for a set fitted.

[sja]

Wasn't keen on mixing the brands, hence the bridgestones.. MAy go for a 185 then, would just like less understeer and bit more stbility, Tries searching forum but cant seem to get a definitive (cheapish) answer, if indeed there is one!

[MJK 24]

sja said:

Wasn't keen on mixing the brands, hence the bridgestones.. MAy go for a 185 then, would just like less understeer and bit more stbility, Tries searching forum but cant seem to get a definitive (cheapish) answer, if indeed there is one!

I wouldn't mix brands either but you could claw a few pennies back by selling your old Bridgestones on ebay. They tend to do good money.

[bogie]

dont get any fade on the road at all so wouldnt bother with hoses for 100% road use, unless you are feeling flush

[jitsukadave]

bogie said:

dont get any fade on the road at all so wouldnt bother with hoses for 100% road use, unless you are feeling flush

Thinking of using it on track a fair bit, hence I'm quite keen on the Supercharged K20a engine

>> Edited by jitsukadave on Thursday 8th September 15:32

[DPR]

MJK 24 said:

sja said: So not a good idea then... I've got 185/50 R16 Dunlop Sport SP9000's on the front (with matching standard sized rears) on my S2. There's a fraction less understeer at the front, much more predictable on the limit and far superior wet weather grip. On;y downside is that they need a good 600 - 700 miles to bed in. Seem to get the advantages of a 195 front tyre without the disadvantages. Much cheaper thann Bridgestones too. Budget £340 for a set fitted.

What pressures are you using? I'm probably getting a set to replace my worn (read: ruined on a walshy day) bridgestones.

[gfun]

sja said:

So not a good idea then...

No did not say that – more a ‘if you change any part of the set up then it will always have an effect somewhere else’. It’s been set up for road use as a compromise the more you change the less forgiving it is to drive.

By putting bigger tyres on the front it will under steer less in the dry and more in any standing water – just physics.

I’m sure you would be fine with it but will have to remember that its handling characteristics will have a much bigger step change when it rains. More grip than you have to less grip than you have – which is fine so long as you can live with it and remember how it will change. The bigger the front tyre you put on the more the effect it will have.

Not sure how much extra stress it will put on the suspension but I’m sure you will be able to get advice from some of the more serious track people re stiffer springs and shocks, all that extra energy will have to go somewhere.

[MJK 24]

DPR said:

MJK 24 said: sja said: So not a good idea then... I've got 185/50 R16 Dunlop Sport SP9000's on the front (with matching standard sized rears) on my S2. There's a fraction less understeer at the front, much more predictable on the limit and far superior wet weather grip. On;y downside is that they need a good 600 - 700 miles to bed in. Seem to get the advantages of a 195 front tyre without the disadvantages. Much cheaper thann Bridgestones too. Budget £340 for a set fitted. What pressures are you using? I'm probably getting a set to replace my worn (read: ruined on a walshy day) bridgestones.

Running standard 26psi front and 27.5psi rears.

I think they're a good tyre, just let them bed in as initially you'll think you've made a big mistake!