Elise vs 205GTI
Discussion
This is mainly a question for Tony Hetherington, as I notice in your profile you used to have a 205GTI and now have an Elise - I'm about to become a father and have been "told" by several people I need to buy a more sensible car, but have annoyed them by keeping the Elise and buying a 205 1.9 GTI as a second, sensible car! How would you compare the two? I have only had the 205 for a couple of weeks, and to start with have been taking it very easy as it's 14 years old and I don't want to blow it up!
Now I'm starting to give it "more beans" it seems pretty darned quick point to point, and in some ways seems a more involving drive than the Elise. This seemed strange at first but then I realised the Elise is sooooo capable that I don't worry about cornering hard and you're so low down in the car you don't notice half the corners unless you're really going for it! The 205 in comparison feels like you're sitting up high in a comfy sofa and every hard corner feels like you're going to tip out of your seat, and the lack of power steering in a heavier car seems to make it a fight to turn the wheel sometimes!
On Top Gear the other day Jeremy Clarkson was hooning around the twisties in a 205GTI saying "Nothing would keep up with this car - not even Ferraris or Lambos" but I think he's wrong - the Elise would! Am I right, or am I just not trying hard enough in the 205?
Stoker.
you should have gone for a 106gti, clarkson did a vid a few years back where they group tested a load of cars to find the best handling one..the 106gti came 2nd, beat the elise S1. Richard burns and some touring car guy reckoned the 106gti was the best handling car there, but clarkson wasnt having it, and put some ferrari at number 1 
poweller said:
you should have gone for a 106gti, clarkson did a vid a few years back where they group tested a load of cars to find the best handling one..the 106gti came 2nd, beat the elise S1. Richard burns and some touring car guy reckoned the 106gti was the best handling car there, but clarkson wasnt having it, and put some ferrari at number 1
The 106GTI isn't bad, but a bit too small to be my sensible car
Wow I feel so popular, thanks 
To answer your question: may I first say, GIT! I'd love to have both those cars in my garage but, alas, the 205 is merely part of my memory now!
The two cars are, in terms of their ethos, I think very similar. Lightweight, more 'fun' than 'speed' though they are relatively quick, great in the twisties.
Certainly the Elise is faster, of that there is no doubt at all. 0-60 is about 2 seconds difference I think, and the Elise's cornering ability will far out control the 1.9, not withstanding the torque steer and understeer the 1.9 will give you.
BUT...in terms of smiles per pound, they are indistinguishable. To the conneisseur of cars, a clean 1.9 will attract as much attention as an Elise on any road, but to the 'general public' I think the Elise would win in the looks/attention stakes.
Oh, and you wouldn't have a bbq full of girls begging me to take them all for rides yesterday afternoon (while wearing short skirts) if I turned up in a 205 (god bless Lotus, Amen).
So, to summarise - Elise is without doubt the faster car in all circumstances, but both have the same "more fun, more fun, and a bit more fun" ethos that just makes you want to take the long way to work!
To answer your question: may I first say, GIT! I'd love to have both those cars in my garage but, alas, the 205 is merely part of my memory now!
The two cars are, in terms of their ethos, I think very similar. Lightweight, more 'fun' than 'speed' though they are relatively quick, great in the twisties.
Certainly the Elise is faster, of that there is no doubt at all. 0-60 is about 2 seconds difference I think, and the Elise's cornering ability will far out control the 1.9, not withstanding the torque steer and understeer the 1.9 will give you.
BUT...in terms of smiles per pound, they are indistinguishable. To the conneisseur of cars, a clean 1.9 will attract as much attention as an Elise on any road, but to the 'general public' I think the Elise would win in the looks/attention stakes.
Oh, and you wouldn't have a bbq full of girls begging me to take them all for rides yesterday afternoon (while wearing short skirts
) if I turned up in a 205 (god bless Lotus, Amen). So, to summarise - Elise is without doubt the faster car in all circumstances, but both have the same "more fun, more fun, and a bit more fun" ethos that just makes you want to take the long way to work!
poweller said:
drop an Mi16 lump in it, then see how it goes
you gotta watch out for the lift off oversteer in 205gtis, can be pretty unforgiving..
We have stuck a mi16 lump in one, gutted the interior and re designed the suspension (standard is not that good). We have a video of a £150k evo coming round a corner with the pug nipping round the outside of it and thrashing it home.
Still prefer the liz!
stoker said:
We have a video of a £150k evo coming round a corner with the pug nipping round the outside of it and thrashing it home.
Still prefer the liz!
So when are you uploading it to pistonheads.tv then?
I thought that would be the next question.... I have just phoned Tom (video and technically, car owner) He is on vacation!
The current project is to stick the engine, gearbox and drivetrain from a legasy (sp?) into the pug. We are having a hard time chopping and re-joining the drive shafts.
The other project is taking up spare car time. so the pug is making his house look like a chavs front garden with a gutted pug and a semi gutted scooby.
Hmmm the other car project ... drool.
It fired up and ran a couple of weeks ago. Have you ever seen a car go from standstill to 25mph and back to standstill in twice its own length....
Hi mate i have owned four, 1.9 205 gti in the past a good trick to know is lower the back end 5mm, its on torsion bar suspension so should be easy to do. This will stop the back end jumping suddenly when really cornering hard. Also there use to be a good second hand parts company in sheffield called pug parts not sure if they are still about as it was a while ago, any way hope that helps.
cheers matt
cheers matt
stoker said:
This is mainly a question for Tony Hetherington, as I notice in your profile you used to have a 205GTI and now have an Elise - I'm about to become a father and have been "told" by several people I need to buy a more sensible car, but have annoyed them by keeping the Elise and buying a 205 1.9 GTI as a second, sensible car! How would you compare the two? I have only had the 205 for a couple of weeks, and to start with have been taking it very easy as it's 14 years old and I don't want to blow it up!
Now I'm starting to give it "more beans" it seems pretty darned quick point to point, and in some ways seems a more involving drive than the Elise. This seemed strange at first but then I realised the Elise is sooooo capable that I don't worry about cornering hard and you're so low down in the car you don't notice half the corners unless you're really going for it! The 205 in comparison feels like you're sitting up high in a comfy sofa and every hard corner feels like you're going to tip out of your seat, and the lack of power steering in a heavier car seems to make it a fight to turn the wheel sometimes!
On Top Gear the other day Jeremy Clarkson was hooning around the twisties in a 205GTI saying "Nothing would keep up with this car - not even Ferraris or Lambos" but I think he's wrong - the Elise would! Am I right, or am I just not trying hard enough in the 205?
Stoker.
205 gti is a cult car up there with the mk1 & 2 golf gti etc but in no way is it a match for a ferrari, lambo elise etc theres no comparison handling, cornering, straigtline acceleration etc between them journo's just love to make these kinda contraversial statesments as it gets everyone talking and keeps them in the limelight dont think for one minute they belive a word of it
mooman said:
Hi mate i have owned four, 1.9 205 gti in the past a good trick to know is lower the back end 5mm, its on torsion bar suspension so should be easy to do. This will stop the back end jumping suddenly when really cornering hard. Also there use to be a good second hand parts company in sheffield called pug parts not sure if they are still about as it was a while ago, any way hope that helps.
cheers matt
Anyone know if the insurance company would consider that a "modification"? I'm getting a bit paranoid in my old age!
Also - There appears to be a small oil leak - Just a few drips under the car wherever I park it, the pressure gague seems to suggest there's no problem, but is there a common place for them to leak that I should check first? Looking at the engine there's some oil to the right hand side fairly near the top, and the back of the engine looks fairly manky - I guess I need to clean it off to see where it's coming from...
I've owned 2 205 1.9's in the early 90's.
They are sinply the greatest all round sporting car ever made in my book. Massive fun (even more than my Exige in day to day driving) and mega practical. Steering feedback is wondrous, and the handling just begs for hooliganism - chucking the things into corners then stamping on the accelerator to drag it through the other side.
Really light with no superfluous equipment or safety stuff. Consequently the agilty is leagues ahead of today's cars, and it has that "stop on a sixpence" braking experience that again my Exige lacks despite it's low weight.
>> Edited by aelord on Thursday 25th August 11:46
They are sinply the greatest all round sporting car ever made in my book. Massive fun (even more than my Exige in day to day driving) and mega practical. Steering feedback is wondrous, and the handling just begs for hooliganism - chucking the things into corners then stamping on the accelerator to drag it through the other side.
Really light with no superfluous equipment or safety stuff. Consequently the agilty is leagues ahead of today's cars, and it has that "stop on a sixpence" braking experience that again my Exige lacks despite it's low weight.
>> Edited by aelord on Thursday 25th August 11:46
I had a Pug 205 GTi 1.9 for three years and 50,000 miles, followed by a Renault Clio Williams for the next three years and around 30,000 miles. Both were more plain fun than any of the three Subaru that followed - as mentioned above, lightness confers a lot of agility. As Colin Chapman said, a powerful car is fast on the straights; a light car is fast everywhere. But of the two, I'd take the Renault ahead of the Peugeot; I think the build quality was a little better and I know the handling was. I remember a scary moment coming downhill on a bend, northbound on the A3 Guilford by-pass, whilst joining from the A31. I was accelerating hard and had to lift off for a faster car coming up behind in the lane I was joining. I only just managed to stop it swapping ends.
I didn't have another car that was as much fun as either, until buying a VW Golf R32, some 17 years later...
I didn't have another car that was as much fun as either, until buying a VW Golf R32, some 17 years later...
HappyJack said:
I had a Pug 205 GTi 1.9 for three years and 50,000 miles, followed by a Renault Clio Williams for the next three years and around 30,000 miles. Both were more plain fun than any of the three Subaru that followed - as mentioned above, lightness confers a lot of agility. As Colin Chapman said, a powerful car is fast on the straights; a light car is fast everywhere. But of the two, I'd take the Renault ahead of the Peugeot; I think the build quality was a little better and I know the handling was. I remember a scary moment coming downhill on a bend, northbound on the A3 Guilford by-pass, whilst joining from the A31. I was accelerating hard and had to lift off for a faster car coming up behind in the lane I was joining. I only just managed to stop it swapping ends.
I didn't have another car that was as much fun as either, until buying a VW Golf R32, some 17 years later...
Speaking of waiting 17 years.... that is how old this thread is. And, it took you 15 years to make your first post. Well done. That is pretty impressive. I didn't have another car that was as much fun as either, until buying a VW Golf R32, some 17 years later...
I had a Williams too. Great memories of that car. I bought a Honda S2000 to replace it but sold the Honda and kept the Clio. It eventually had to go when a friend crashed it.
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