Exige S2 or S3 for road use - opinions please
Discussion
Contemplating getting back into the Lotus fold. The car would be a toy and used sparingly for euro road trips and short dry day blats. Won't be tracking it as I already race.
So my question is, which would be more of a pleasurable option and why? Not interested in out and out speed but which would be the more fun road car for the scenarios above.
So my question is, which would be more of a pleasurable option and why? Not interested in out and out speed but which would be the more fun road car for the scenarios above.
I think all you can do is drive both. And also an Evora (400 would be my suggestion). I've had an S2, a V6, an Evora 400 and now have an S2 cup. All exiges are epic so don't take anything what follows as me dumping on the car; I love them. The V6 feels better built than the S2 and the engine has a lot more torque; and looks more like a super car. And you could get it with cruise control. But it still rattled; the fuel tank is tiny for the size of the engine and you don't get a roof scoop (gotta love the roof scoop, it's worth at least 100hp on it's own). No exige is what you would call civilized as as a pure road trip car - the lights are rubbish, the interior is noisy - I wear earplugs now as my first S2 gave me tinnitus - and the radio is rubbish if not uprated. And you only get a 38l tank in the S2 and S3. Even the newest S2 is going to be 12 years old now, so you need to what work has been done. Personally, I think my current exige is more of an event than my S3 was; it does look more like a racing car and its covered in carbon fibre. And it has been ridiculously over-restored to OE+ levels by a very kind previous owner!
For what you want it for, the Evora would probably be the better car IMO.
For what you want it for, the Evora would probably be the better car IMO.
gashead1105 said:
I think all you can do is drive both. And also an Evora (400 would be my suggestion). I've had an S2, a V6, an Evora 400 and now have an S2 cup. All exiges are epic so don't take anything what follows as me dumping on the car; I love them. The V6 feels better built than the S2 and the engine has a lot more torque; and looks more like a super car. And you could get it with cruise control. But it still rattled; the fuel tank is tiny for the size of the engine and you don't get a roof scoop (gotta love the roof scoop, it's worth at least 100hp on it's own). No exige is what you would call civilized as as a pure road trip car - the lights are rubbish, the interior is noisy - I wear earplugs now as my first S2 gave me tinnitus - and the radio is rubbish if not uprated. And you only get a 38l tank in the S2 and S3. Even the newest S2 is going to be 12 years old now, so you need to what work has been done. Personally, I think my current exige is more of an event than my S3 was; it does look more like a racing car and its covered in carbon fibre. And it has been ridiculously over-restored to OE+ levels by a very kind previous owner!
For what you want it for, the Evora would probably be the better car IMO.
Thanks Gashead, thats really helpful and interesting you have gone back to an S2 Cup which certainly says something and I think from what you are saying above I too fit into that category. I am looking for something visceral and fun to drive, interesting about the tank size, did not know this.. Not bothered about super car looks, the one thing that puts me off about the S3 is the size (width) means its going to be less agile down a british B road but wanted to hear if this compromised the S3 or is it marginal compared to an S2?For what you want it for, the Evora would probably be the better car IMO.
I also ride motorbikes, so earplugs are fine with me
Not too fussed about lights that much, as I would avoid driving much at night (unless necessity just like a motorbike). Not bothered about radio, as I want to hear what the car is doing. A lack of cruise control would be a pain though for all the average speed cameras, it's almost become a vital bit of equipment on any vehicle. Can it be retrofitted to an S2?Not interested in an Evora as it looks too civilised and I don't think the roof can be unbolted ?
Edited by Omaruk on Wednesday 23 March 14:49
You've got to drive both. The V6 has a wider arse compared to the S2 but it's hardly a big car by modern standards. I loved mine, I spec'd it new in one off sprint colours and if I could have bought it back from the current owner in December rather than my S2 cup, I may well have done so (even at current prices which don't make much sense to me!). He had no interest in selling it sadly. Any s3 is properly, ridiculously, fast. The mid range shove is awesome and it still pulls like a train at the top of 4th, which is well north of 120mph (on track obviously). Front end isn't as nice as the S2 though, much more understeer with the factory set up. I can only imagine what the chargecooled 400HP version is like to drive, possibly too fast for the road.
The Cup I have now is a different animal, it's a proper screamer compared to the V6 which is all done at 7k, the 260s rev to 8.5k. I have ohlins on mine, recently refreshed, though I would think that if you got a Sport 410 - much more money of course - with the 3 way nitrons they would be even better. The ride is remarkably comfortable (with these ohlins) even so. Around Bedford last month I saw 130 indicated on the back straight though I couldn't rev it out fully due to noise issues. The Sport 410 that was also there was doing 150ish. But as we all know, going fast in a straight line isn't the most fun part of driving after a while ;-)
Yes, the Evora roof doesn't come off. Although I only ever took the roof off my first Exige twice, and I have no plans to do so now.
You need to make sure the AC works by the way, it gets very hot in the cabin without it and the windscreen won't demist without it either. Even with AC it's bloody slow. A lot of S2s will have had new (more flexible) sill pipes fitted by now. Expect that eventually that will probably need to be done on the S3.
I don't believe it's possible to retrofit cruise to the S2, the stalk switch on the S3 is very simple but the S2 ECU doesn't know what cruise control is.
Edit: one other point - have you got a garage? Particularly with the S2, I wouldn't want to keep one outside but really that applies to all of them.
Also, if you are looking at S2 exiges don't rule out the S3 Elise Cup either (unless a roof scoop is absolutely essential!). You could argue that it's an S2 exige with a more modern and chargecooled engine and you can get it with cruise...
The Cup I have now is a different animal, it's a proper screamer compared to the V6 which is all done at 7k, the 260s rev to 8.5k. I have ohlins on mine, recently refreshed, though I would think that if you got a Sport 410 - much more money of course - with the 3 way nitrons they would be even better. The ride is remarkably comfortable (with these ohlins) even so. Around Bedford last month I saw 130 indicated on the back straight though I couldn't rev it out fully due to noise issues. The Sport 410 that was also there was doing 150ish. But as we all know, going fast in a straight line isn't the most fun part of driving after a while ;-)
Yes, the Evora roof doesn't come off. Although I only ever took the roof off my first Exige twice, and I have no plans to do so now.
You need to make sure the AC works by the way, it gets very hot in the cabin without it and the windscreen won't demist without it either. Even with AC it's bloody slow. A lot of S2s will have had new (more flexible) sill pipes fitted by now. Expect that eventually that will probably need to be done on the S3.
I don't believe it's possible to retrofit cruise to the S2, the stalk switch on the S3 is very simple but the S2 ECU doesn't know what cruise control is.
Edit: one other point - have you got a garage? Particularly with the S2, I wouldn't want to keep one outside but really that applies to all of them.
Also, if you are looking at S2 exiges don't rule out the S3 Elise Cup either (unless a roof scoop is absolutely essential!). You could argue that it's an S2 exige with a more modern and chargecooled engine and you can get it with cruise...
Edited by gashead1105 on Wednesday 23 March 17:21
Edited by gashead1105 on Wednesday 23 March 17:21
As said before they are all brilliant fun but have slightly different characteristics.
The S1 Elise is the lightest and marginally the most agile, but also a bit edgy if you are not on it...the later cars have become slightly more refined in most areas...and heavier. They are still very light and agile compared to almost anything else apart form Caterhams or the like.
The S3 Exige is probably the choice if you are going to do the odd Euro trip and siting on any motorway/Autoroute in a screaming Elise is not fun...but of course when you hit the twisties all the negatives are temporarily forgotten. Whilst not exactly quiet the S3 Exige is surprisingly refined at 70-90mph and still a ball on twisty roads aswell as having gob fulls of torque when you want to calm down a bit. I`ve owneda V6 roadster Exige and a 430 Cup, and whilst the 430 is a brilliant track car and noticeably faster, I wouldn't say the any of the lower spec cars are any less fun and infact probably better road cars.
The S1 Elise is the lightest and marginally the most agile, but also a bit edgy if you are not on it...the later cars have become slightly more refined in most areas...and heavier. They are still very light and agile compared to almost anything else apart form Caterhams or the like.
The S3 Exige is probably the choice if you are going to do the odd Euro trip and siting on any motorway/Autoroute in a screaming Elise is not fun...but of course when you hit the twisties all the negatives are temporarily forgotten. Whilst not exactly quiet the S3 Exige is surprisingly refined at 70-90mph and still a ball on twisty roads aswell as having gob fulls of torque when you want to calm down a bit. I`ve owneda V6 roadster Exige and a 430 Cup, and whilst the 430 is a brilliant track car and noticeably faster, I wouldn't say the any of the lower spec cars are any less fun and infact probably better road cars.
I'm going to throw a curved ball in here. An S3 Elise may offer what you're after. It does not have the screaming engine the S2 Exige has, but it has more power and torque and makes a far better road car than the S2 Exige as a result. You can also tune it to make it a lovely tool. I have 300bhp in mine and it makes it a fast road car - but not a loud, twitchy, fragile track thing... just a potent road car... and with the back window the Exige lacks. Not the fastest straight-line on the track I'm sure, but its a well built, no rattles, agile, powerful and a very plesurable road car... Perfect for twisty's, especially if the suspension is upgraded. Years ago the S2 Exige was the harder car, but the S3 Elise offers the performance without as much compromise. It would be the character of the engine that would sway you one way or the other... and a stupid as it may be to some on here, the S3 has better dash vents, which in the small hot cabin are welcomed. Obviously just my opinion, but the S3 Elise was the decision I came to and bought when I had the same questions as you and for me I think I made the right choice. Its fugal, fast, agile and a nice road car, which is where most of its life is. All the best on your buying journey.
So here's my verdict on the S3 Exige on the road - i'm not a huge fan and if it weren't for the fact I plan to do 8-10 track days a year I wouldn't keep it for road duties. I absolutely LOVE the car, but for track, european road trips and car meets
On the road I find it;
a) too wide at the back to give much movement within lane for the country roads i'm often on
b) the set up is stiff which isn't an issue if the roads were smooth without loads of holes, but how they are I end up feeling sorry for the car with the pounding it takes so am always scanning for holes etc which takes the enjoyment out of driving somewhat
c) A less fast car (mine is a Exige 420 so no shortage of poke) may be more fun when you can use more of the performance
d) Can't see much out the back, again a pain in the arse when having to reverse down a country lane
At Silverstone last week there were a few of the latest model Elise's like a 250 Cup, that is probably a far better road car. Smaller and softer sprung but with greater visibility etc.
From my comments above, don't take it as the car being at fault. It's just for me, i'm not able to get the most out of the Exige on the roads I drive on. If they were smooth/flowing etc then great (hence European road trips being a positive!)
Having said all that....the sound is epic and is one of the main reasons I went for it. Looks are subjective, but I think it looks epic. Good luck with the search!
On the road I find it;
a) too wide at the back to give much movement within lane for the country roads i'm often on
b) the set up is stiff which isn't an issue if the roads were smooth without loads of holes, but how they are I end up feeling sorry for the car with the pounding it takes so am always scanning for holes etc which takes the enjoyment out of driving somewhat
c) A less fast car (mine is a Exige 420 so no shortage of poke) may be more fun when you can use more of the performance
d) Can't see much out the back, again a pain in the arse when having to reverse down a country lane
At Silverstone last week there were a few of the latest model Elise's like a 250 Cup, that is probably a far better road car. Smaller and softer sprung but with greater visibility etc.
From my comments above, don't take it as the car being at fault. It's just for me, i'm not able to get the most out of the Exige on the roads I drive on. If they were smooth/flowing etc then great (hence European road trips being a positive!)
Having said all that....the sound is epic and is one of the main reasons I went for it. Looks are subjective, but I think it looks epic. Good luck with the search!
Edited by CM96 on Tuesday 29th March 15:35
CM96 said:
So here's my verdict on the S3 Exige on the road - i'm not a huge fan and if it weren't for the fact I plan to do 8-10 track days a year I wouldn't keep it for road duties. I absolutely LOVE the car, but for track, european road trips and car meets
On the road I find it;
a) too wide at the back to give much movement within lane for the country roads i'm often on
b) the set up is stiff which isn't an issue if the roads were smooth without loads of holes, but how they are I end up feeling sorry for the car with the pounding it takes so am always scanning for holes etc which takes the enjoyment out of driving somewhat
c) A less fast car (mine is a Exige 420 so no shortage of poke) may be more fun when you can use more of the performance
d) Can't see much out the back, again a pain in the arse when having to reverse down a country lane
At Silverstone last week there were a few of the latest model Elise's like a 250 Cup, that is probably a far better road car. Smaller and softer sprung but with greater visibility etc.
From my comments above, don't take it as the car being at fault. It's just for me, i'm not able to get the most out of the Exige on the roads I drive on. If they were smooth/flowing etc then great (hence European road trips being a positive!)
Having said all that....the sound is epic and is one of the main reasons I went for it. Looks are subjective, but I think it looks epic. Good luck with the search!
I think where you live is a big factor on the suitability of an S3 Exige for road use. I’m fortunate to live in the north of Scotland where the roads are fast, open, quiet and reasonably well surfaced. If I lived further south I would just get frustrated. Up here, it’s perfect. On the road I find it;
a) too wide at the back to give much movement within lane for the country roads i'm often on
b) the set up is stiff which isn't an issue if the roads were smooth without loads of holes, but how they are I end up feeling sorry for the car with the pounding it takes so am always scanning for holes etc which takes the enjoyment out of driving somewhat
c) A less fast car (mine is a Exige 420 so no shortage of poke) may be more fun when you can use more of the performance
d) Can't see much out the back, again a pain in the arse when having to reverse down a country lane
At Silverstone last week there were a few of the latest model Elise's like a 250 Cup, that is probably a far better road car. Smaller and softer sprung but with greater visibility etc.
From my comments above, don't take it as the car being at fault. It's just for me, i'm not able to get the most out of the Exige on the roads I drive on. If they were smooth/flowing etc then great (hence European road trips being a positive!)
Having said all that....the sound is epic and is one of the main reasons I went for it. Looks are subjective, but I think it looks epic. Good luck with the search!
Edited by CM96 on Tuesday 29th March 15:35
alasdair-GGG said:
I'm going to throw a curved ball in here. An S3 Elise may offer what you're after. It does not have the screaming engine the S2 Exige has, but it has more power and torque and makes a far better road car than the S2 Exige as a result. You can also tune it to make it a lovely tool. I have 300bhp in mine and it makes it a fast road car - but not a loud, twitchy, fragile track thing... just a potent road car... and with the back window the Exige lacks. Not the fastest straight-line on the track I'm sure, but its a well built, no rattles, agile, powerful and a very plesurable road car... Perfect for twisty's, especially if the suspension is upgraded. Years ago the S2 Exige was the harder car, but the S3 Elise offers the performance without as much compromise. It would be the character of the engine that would sway you one way or the other... and a stupid as it may be to some on here, the S3 has better dash vents, which in the small hot cabin are welcomed. Obviously just my opinion, but the S3 Elise was the decision I came to and bought when I had the same questions as you and for me I think I made the right choice. Its fugal, fast, agile and a nice road car, which is where most of its life is. All the best on your buying journey.
Worth just mentioning that the latest S2 Exiges have the same dash (and ventilation) as the S3 Elise (and S3 exige?). My 2008 Exige has the later dash. I would offer a suggestion that the original Rover powered S1 and S2 cars are where you should look for road thrills. I’d argue that the most astonishing feat the platform performed was delivering life changing steering and dynamics on a puff of power. A perfect, unspoiled execution of automotive purity of vision.
You can drive one of these early cars at pace on the public roads much harder and with more vigour than you will manage with any of the later models which of course went chasing power. They’re wonderful - every one of them - but if it’s just pure driving, then the skinny front tyres and amazing lightweight offer a delicacy that is unrepeatable pretty much anywhere, regardless of price.
Money where my mouth is I was all fired up to buy a new cup 250 in 2018 but I ended up with a 2003 Sport 135R and I have to say that my 20 year wait to get an Elise was well worth it! I absolutely love it.
Best of luck with whatever you choose.
You can drive one of these early cars at pace on the public roads much harder and with more vigour than you will manage with any of the later models which of course went chasing power. They’re wonderful - every one of them - but if it’s just pure driving, then the skinny front tyres and amazing lightweight offer a delicacy that is unrepeatable pretty much anywhere, regardless of price.
Money where my mouth is I was all fired up to buy a new cup 250 in 2018 but I ended up with a 2003 Sport 135R and I have to say that my 20 year wait to get an Elise was well worth it! I absolutely love it.
Best of luck with whatever you choose.
^^^^
Exactly this.
The newer cars are great. Nothing wrong with them and almost everything right.
I went from a 220 Cup (S3) which was brilliant and perfectly suited to the road and track, to a 1999 S1 which is perfectly suited to the road and can wring it out even more than the S3. And, for my money, the K series is better than the Toyota engines.
Exactly this.
The newer cars are great. Nothing wrong with them and almost everything right.
I went from a 220 Cup (S3) which was brilliant and perfectly suited to the road and track, to a 1999 S1 which is perfectly suited to the road and can wring it out even more than the S3. And, for my money, the K series is better than the Toyota engines.
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