Buying first Elise
Discussion
Hi guys,
(Firstly apologies for the length of this post)
I’m new to this forum and Lotuses in general and am currently considering buying my first Elise. Although I’ve done a fair bit of online research, scrolling through various forum threads, reading buyers guides and watching YouTube videos, I’ve only looked at one other Elise before, so I don’t really have much for comparison and very little experience with Elises. That’s why I’d really appreciate your views/opinions on this one:
I found a private seller offering a 2004 111R (see pictures) with around 63000km. Price wise I think it’s located towards the lower end of the price spectrum for a LHD 111R with this sort of mileage in Germany. So I went to see it and the first impression was quite good.
Mechanically, as far as I can tell it seems alright
- the engine sounds and idles pretty normal and gets up to and keeps temperature
- the gearbox feels quite good, shifting into all gears easily, no crunching sounds. I was just surprised by how far the shifter was tilted to the right, especially in 5th and 6th, although that might be normal (I don’t know)
- suspension and steering looks and feels fine to me, however when accelerating and letting go of the wheel it consistently pulls slightly to the left, which I think could be fixed with a proper alignment
- fluids all seemed fine
- tires and breaks were quite worn and I think need to be changed, but I guess that’s just normal wear and to be expected
In terms of history and service records however, there is basically no information. The current owner has had the car for about a year, after importing it from France and has absolutely no information or records from before that. While he claims that the car hasn’t seen rain or the race track, that obviously only applies to the short period of his ownership. Apparently the previous owner has also installed a baffled oil pan (what seems to be the only mod on this car), which to me would indicate at least some track usage. (Or perhaps I’m wrong and this is a common upgrade even if one doesn’t intend to track the Elise - please let me know). However, I think the lack of documentation is quite fairly reflected in the price and I’d be willing to live with that, considering that I was planning to get a PPI at a local Lotus service partner anyways.
However, there were 3 things I found on the car that seemed quite concerning to me:
1. The doors don’t open properly - this is worse on the passenger side, but happening on both: the door rubs against the end of the front clam and the door hinge cover panel, which has caused the paint to come off in that area on all 3 panels (unfortunately I don’t have a picture, but you can sort of see it on the passenger side even from afar). I don’t know whether this is due to poor fitment of the clam and hinge cover, damage on the door hinge, or perhaps indicative of a bent frame that messes up the panel gaps. If anyone has any experience with this, or knows how easy or difficult it is to fix and to repaint the edges I’d really appreciate your help.
2. There seems to be damage to the underbody right in front of the rear wheels on both sides. (See picture) The shear panel under the fuel tank seems to be bent and there are cracks in the sill panel. The owner says he doesn’t know how that happened, and I find it difficult to find a possible explanation, as it seems like quite a weird spot for hitting a bump. Perhaps the car has slid off the road, but then again I’d expect the damage not to be as far back as it is. Again if anyone has any ideas what might have caused it, how likely it is to have caused structural damage, or how difficult it is to fix the panel and the cracked sills, I’d be keen to know.
3. Finally, the car seems to have had some sort of damage in the rear. While the clam looks completely fine from the outside, you can see the fiberglass patches on the inside of the trunk. Also the floor of the trunk seems to have cracked and been fixed (see picture) but a bend remains. The fiber glass repair seems to be pretty nicely done, but I’m not entirely sure if there was damage to the rear frame. Does anyone know whether I can see if the rear frame is fine, without taking the clam off ?
As for the rest: A couple of rock chips on the clam and sills as well as the indicators - which, based on my research, seems to be quite normal wear and tear on a 17 year old Elise. The interior looks used but generally fine - the sill covers have quite a couple of scratches and the hard top has a sagging roof liner and is missing the velcro cover panels. Also the wheels are a bit scuffed up and wheel caps don’t match. The black plastic of the vents looks old and grey in some places but is generally intact. On the passenger side the side vents seem to fit rather loosely and there appears to be a tiny crack in the sill panel at the tip of the vent (see picture).
But again, lacking comparison, I don’t know if this is normal and to be expected on a 17 year old Elise, or if this one is just in bad condition.
If you’ve made it this far, thanks for taking the time to read all of this. Again, lacking experience with Elises, I’d highly appreciate your opinion on this one’s condition, the seriousness or fixability of the 3 main issues, whether buying a Lotus basically without history/service records is generally a bad idea, and wether there’s anything else I’ve missed or that I should be wary of.
So, long story short, my main question is: Do you guys think this Elise is worth considering and getting a PPI for, or is it not worth bothering with?
Many thanks for helping a newbie out
(Firstly apologies for the length of this post)
I’m new to this forum and Lotuses in general and am currently considering buying my first Elise. Although I’ve done a fair bit of online research, scrolling through various forum threads, reading buyers guides and watching YouTube videos, I’ve only looked at one other Elise before, so I don’t really have much for comparison and very little experience with Elises. That’s why I’d really appreciate your views/opinions on this one:
I found a private seller offering a 2004 111R (see pictures) with around 63000km. Price wise I think it’s located towards the lower end of the price spectrum for a LHD 111R with this sort of mileage in Germany. So I went to see it and the first impression was quite good.
Mechanically, as far as I can tell it seems alright
- the engine sounds and idles pretty normal and gets up to and keeps temperature
- the gearbox feels quite good, shifting into all gears easily, no crunching sounds. I was just surprised by how far the shifter was tilted to the right, especially in 5th and 6th, although that might be normal (I don’t know)
- suspension and steering looks and feels fine to me, however when accelerating and letting go of the wheel it consistently pulls slightly to the left, which I think could be fixed with a proper alignment
- fluids all seemed fine
- tires and breaks were quite worn and I think need to be changed, but I guess that’s just normal wear and to be expected
In terms of history and service records however, there is basically no information. The current owner has had the car for about a year, after importing it from France and has absolutely no information or records from before that. While he claims that the car hasn’t seen rain or the race track, that obviously only applies to the short period of his ownership. Apparently the previous owner has also installed a baffled oil pan (what seems to be the only mod on this car), which to me would indicate at least some track usage. (Or perhaps I’m wrong and this is a common upgrade even if one doesn’t intend to track the Elise - please let me know). However, I think the lack of documentation is quite fairly reflected in the price and I’d be willing to live with that, considering that I was planning to get a PPI at a local Lotus service partner anyways.
However, there were 3 things I found on the car that seemed quite concerning to me:
1. The doors don’t open properly - this is worse on the passenger side, but happening on both: the door rubs against the end of the front clam and the door hinge cover panel, which has caused the paint to come off in that area on all 3 panels (unfortunately I don’t have a picture, but you can sort of see it on the passenger side even from afar). I don’t know whether this is due to poor fitment of the clam and hinge cover, damage on the door hinge, or perhaps indicative of a bent frame that messes up the panel gaps. If anyone has any experience with this, or knows how easy or difficult it is to fix and to repaint the edges I’d really appreciate your help.
2. There seems to be damage to the underbody right in front of the rear wheels on both sides. (See picture) The shear panel under the fuel tank seems to be bent and there are cracks in the sill panel. The owner says he doesn’t know how that happened, and I find it difficult to find a possible explanation, as it seems like quite a weird spot for hitting a bump. Perhaps the car has slid off the road, but then again I’d expect the damage not to be as far back as it is. Again if anyone has any ideas what might have caused it, how likely it is to have caused structural damage, or how difficult it is to fix the panel and the cracked sills, I’d be keen to know.
3. Finally, the car seems to have had some sort of damage in the rear. While the clam looks completely fine from the outside, you can see the fiberglass patches on the inside of the trunk. Also the floor of the trunk seems to have cracked and been fixed (see picture) but a bend remains. The fiber glass repair seems to be pretty nicely done, but I’m not entirely sure if there was damage to the rear frame. Does anyone know whether I can see if the rear frame is fine, without taking the clam off ?
As for the rest: A couple of rock chips on the clam and sills as well as the indicators - which, based on my research, seems to be quite normal wear and tear on a 17 year old Elise. The interior looks used but generally fine - the sill covers have quite a couple of scratches and the hard top has a sagging roof liner and is missing the velcro cover panels. Also the wheels are a bit scuffed up and wheel caps don’t match. The black plastic of the vents looks old and grey in some places but is generally intact. On the passenger side the side vents seem to fit rather loosely and there appears to be a tiny crack in the sill panel at the tip of the vent (see picture).
But again, lacking comparison, I don’t know if this is normal and to be expected on a 17 year old Elise, or if this one is just in bad condition.
If you’ve made it this far, thanks for taking the time to read all of this. Again, lacking experience with Elises, I’d highly appreciate your opinion on this one’s condition, the seriousness or fixability of the 3 main issues, whether buying a Lotus basically without history/service records is generally a bad idea, and wether there’s anything else I’ve missed or that I should be wary of.
So, long story short, my main question is: Do you guys think this Elise is worth considering and getting a PPI for, or is it not worth bothering with?
Many thanks for helping a newbie out
Hi Jumo,
Like others have said, I'd walk away from this one - even if it is well priced.
The damage to the undertray and lack of service history is concerning. Probably had a shunt in the past. Also a bit weird - Elises are usually cheaper in Germany than in France (I live in France and before buying my Elise last year from the Uk I looked at importing a german one) so I find that bit odd as well.
Honestly, even if it didn't have the damage to the undertray area, the lack of service history also makes it a deal braker for me - unless you're planning on using it as a track car for some years to come, I think that you'd struggle to move it on when time comes to sell it, even if Elises are going up in price.
Other than that, the thin crack in the air intake area seems to be fairly normal - these are fiber glass cars which is a material that expands and contracts in cold and heat, and given how these cars are hand made I'd assume its normal build quality for an early Elise s2.
Also, doors that don't close well are probably another sign that its been in a shunt - not necessarily something to avoid but if so, its important to know how it was repaired (probably not very well in this case).
Before buying my '02 Elise I almost bought a '98 that had been left outside for 2 years, wasn't in working order, needed lots of fettling to get back on the road, etc.. I paid more and got a good example - and I don't regret it one bit. If you're really keen on getting into an Elise type car you can also look into k-series engined cars of the vx220/Speedster variants - I'd rather do that than get a car like the above!
In any case keep looking and I'm sure you'll find something great
Like others have said, I'd walk away from this one - even if it is well priced.
The damage to the undertray and lack of service history is concerning. Probably had a shunt in the past. Also a bit weird - Elises are usually cheaper in Germany than in France (I live in France and before buying my Elise last year from the Uk I looked at importing a german one) so I find that bit odd as well.
Honestly, even if it didn't have the damage to the undertray area, the lack of service history also makes it a deal braker for me - unless you're planning on using it as a track car for some years to come, I think that you'd struggle to move it on when time comes to sell it, even if Elises are going up in price.
Other than that, the thin crack in the air intake area seems to be fairly normal - these are fiber glass cars which is a material that expands and contracts in cold and heat, and given how these cars are hand made I'd assume its normal build quality for an early Elise s2.
Also, doors that don't close well are probably another sign that its been in a shunt - not necessarily something to avoid but if so, its important to know how it was repaired (probably not very well in this case).
Before buying my '02 Elise I almost bought a '98 that had been left outside for 2 years, wasn't in working order, needed lots of fettling to get back on the road, etc.. I paid more and got a good example - and I don't regret it one bit. If you're really keen on getting into an Elise type car you can also look into k-series engined cars of the vx220/Speedster variants - I'd rather do that than get a car like the above!
In any case keep looking and I'm sure you'll find something great
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