Exige Cup 430 v Exige 410
Discussion
Looking over the past couple of months it appears that Cup 430’s are hanging around but 410’s and judging by dealers new Exige Car sales they are selling .
This could be expected as there is a significant price difference new but used the price difference is less, particularly as the Cup is fully covered in Carbon.
Having driven both on road on soft Nitron settings there is little to no difference in road noise, handling etc but on track a Cup should with the extra power, aero, potentially lower weight and with all the carbon , be quicker.
But why are 410’ s selling more than 430’s, as for anyone thinking of doing a few track days a year a Cup would be top and for just road use a Cup shouldn’t lose much to a 410
This could be expected as there is a significant price difference new but used the price difference is less, particularly as the Cup is fully covered in Carbon.
Having driven both on road on soft Nitron settings there is little to no difference in road noise, handling etc but on track a Cup should with the extra power, aero, potentially lower weight and with all the carbon , be quicker.
But why are 410’ s selling more than 430’s, as for anyone thinking of doing a few track days a year a Cup would be top and for just road use a Cup shouldn’t lose much to a 410
The Cup 430`s are the pinnacle of the Exige range from Lotus and we are lead to believe the last of the kind...so good for us there are not so many around.
My two penneth is that the 410 is 95% of a 430, at least on the face of it, but at least £10k less and unless you are in the know, why on earth would you dream of paying £85-90k for an Exige, never mind £95-100k+! I was thinking about buying a 410 for this reason, but saw both in the flesh side by side and the 430 stood out, then man maths won over...
I`d also imagine there are no lack of people who`d wonder why you`d even pay £50k for a 20 year old Elise with a mainstream V6 stuck in the back!
Obviously when you realise and compare the performance and driving experience they offer compared with some of the more extreme machinery from some of the leading brands, they offer fantastic value...if a little compromised when extricating yourself from the cabin, but that`s about it...
My two penneth is that the 410 is 95% of a 430, at least on the face of it, but at least £10k less and unless you are in the know, why on earth would you dream of paying £85-90k for an Exige, never mind £95-100k+! I was thinking about buying a 410 for this reason, but saw both in the flesh side by side and the 430 stood out, then man maths won over...
I`d also imagine there are no lack of people who`d wonder why you`d even pay £50k for a 20 year old Elise with a mainstream V6 stuck in the back!
Obviously when you realise and compare the performance and driving experience they offer compared with some of the more extreme machinery from some of the leading brands, they offer fantastic value...if a little compromised when extricating yourself from the cabin, but that`s about it...
I've heard rumours that the 410 and 430 have the same power output, despite the badge. Same as the Evora did. Other than the extra few carbon bits, front arches with gills and a different wing I can't see what else justifies the price jump. Surely you could just adjust the 410 suspension settings to the same as the 430 to achieve the same handling characteristics??
The 410 is based on the 380 Cup chassis and I'd bet if someone here with a 430 was to check their rear subframe they'd see a 380 Cup stamp too.
Both amazing cars. I took my 410 to Thruxton on Monday and it's got so much potential
The 410 is based on the 380 Cup chassis and I'd bet if someone here with a 430 was to check their rear subframe they'd see a 380 Cup stamp too.
Both amazing cars. I took my 410 to Thruxton on Monday and it's got so much potential
ecain63 said:
I've heard rumours that the 410 and 430 have the same power output, despite the badge. Same as the Evora did. Other than the extra few carbon bits, front arches with gills and a different wing I can't see what else justifies the price jump. Surely you could just adjust the 410 suspension settings to the same as the 430 to achieve the same handling characteristics??
The 410 is based on the 380 Cup chassis and I'd bet if someone here with a 430 was to check their rear subframe they'd see a 380 Cup stamp too.
Both amazing cars. I took my 410 to Thruxton on Monday and it's got so much potential
No doubt the 410 sport is the sweet spot in the range but :The 410 is based on the 380 Cup chassis and I'd bet if someone here with a 430 was to check their rear subframe they'd see a 380 Cup stamp too.
Both amazing cars. I took my 410 to Thruxton on Monday and it's got so much potential
Power outputs are certainly at least 20hp difference as the Cup feels torquier and will out drag a 410 comfortably although some of this could be down to the weight difference.
A Cup will be lighter than a 410 sport unless every Carbon option is included and has the optional titanium exhaust ( not many would have this ) in which case it would be closer. Would also add over £10k to the price
The Cup comes with a roll over hoop and has 50% more down force. The 430 Cup was also 1.5 secs quicker round Hethel .
I’m not sure though if the Cup has slightly stiffer Nitron springs also
Rocketreid said:
No doubt the 410 sport is the sweet spot in the range but :
Power outputs are certainly at least 20hp difference as the Cup feels torquier and will out drag a 410 comfortably although some of this could be down to the weight difference.
A Cup will be lighter than a 410 sport unless every Carbon option is included and has the optional titanium exhaust ( not many would have this ) in which case it would be closer. Would also add over £10k to the price
The Cup comes with a roll over hoop and has 50% more down force. The 430 Cup was also 1.5 secs quicker round Hethel .
I’m not sure though if the Cup has slightly stiffer Nitron springs also
Where's the Hethel laptimes for the 410 posted? So far I've not seen any and only heard a rumour that they won't post it because it wasn't slower than the 430. Power outputs are certainly at least 20hp difference as the Cup feels torquier and will out drag a 410 comfortably although some of this could be down to the weight difference.
A Cup will be lighter than a 410 sport unless every Carbon option is included and has the optional titanium exhaust ( not many would have this ) in which case it would be closer. Would also add over £10k to the price
The Cup comes with a roll over hoop and has 50% more down force. The 430 Cup was also 1.5 secs quicker round Hethel .
I’m not sure though if the Cup has slightly stiffer Nitron springs also
Anyway, for the purposes of science it'd be great to get some 410 and 430 models at a dyno day to see them back to back..
ecain63 said:
Where's the Hethel laptimes for the 410 posted? So far I've not seen any and only heard a rumour that they won't post it because it wasn't slower than the 430.
Anyway, for the purposes of science it'd be great to get some 410 and 430 models at a dyno day to see them back to back..
I’ve not seen dyno of a 410 but back to back the 430 is quicker , no doubt about that and particularly more so on track Anyway, for the purposes of science it'd be great to get some 410 and 430 models at a dyno day to see them back to back..
With regards to the Hethel times the possible reason that they weren’t publicised wasn’t because the 410 was quicker than a 430 but because it was faster than a 380 Cup. Dealers hadn’t sold their 380 Cup stock and for marketing reasons it just did not help Lotus
Rocketreid said:
Looking over the past couple of months it appears that Cup 430’s are hanging around but 410’s and judging by dealers new Exige Car sales they are selling .
This could be expected as there is a significant price difference new but used the price difference is less, particularly as the Cup is fully covered in Carbon.
Having driven both on road on soft Nitron settings there is little to no difference in road noise, handling etc but on track a Cup should with the extra power, aero, potentially lower weight and with all the carbon , be quicker.
But why are 410’ s selling more than 430’s, as for anyone thinking of doing a few track days a year a Cup would be top and for just road use a Cup shouldn’t lose much to a 410
new 50:50 finance deals on plentiful 410's which can be bought for £80k but very few (2 I think) 430's available new & therefore on 50:50 and £105k+. So £25k difference when new and available on 50:50 deal.This could be expected as there is a significant price difference new but used the price difference is less, particularly as the Cup is fully covered in Carbon.
Having driven both on road on soft Nitron settings there is little to no difference in road noise, handling etc but on track a Cup should with the extra power, aero, potentially lower weight and with all the carbon , be quicker.
But why are 410’ s selling more than 430’s, as for anyone thinking of doing a few track days a year a Cup would be top and for just road use a Cup shouldn’t lose much to a 410
Used 430's start around £85k, same as as a high spec 410 but used 430's won't be available on 50:50. Also very little colour / spec choice with new 430 as only 2 available at the moment (new) in green and black. 22 x 430's made / registered in 2018 and only 3 in 2019. For the 410 it was 16 in 2018 and 23 in 2019 so almost 8 times more brand new 410's available on 50:50 deal.
[quote=Bispal]
new 50:50 finance deals on plentiful 410's which can be bought for £80k but very few (2 I think) 430's available new & therefore on 50:50 and £105k+. So £25k difference when new and available on 50:50 deal.
Used 430's start around £85k, same as as a high spec 410 but used 430's won't be available on 50:50. Also very little colour / spec choice with new 430 as only 2 available at the moment (new) in green and black. 22 x 430's made / registered in 2018 and only 3 in 2019. For the 410 it was 16 in 2018 and 23 in 2019 so almost 8 times more brand new 410's available on 50:50 deal.
Yep, I imagine this is one of the main reasons , financing and the price differential new
So only 25 430 Cup’s, out there which may make them more desireable in the future.
new 50:50 finance deals on plentiful 410's which can be bought for £80k but very few (2 I think) 430's available new & therefore on 50:50 and £105k+. So £25k difference when new and available on 50:50 deal.
Used 430's start around £85k, same as as a high spec 410 but used 430's won't be available on 50:50. Also very little colour / spec choice with new 430 as only 2 available at the moment (new) in green and black. 22 x 430's made / registered in 2018 and only 3 in 2019. For the 410 it was 16 in 2018 and 23 in 2019 so almost 8 times more brand new 410's available on 50:50 deal.
Yep, I imagine this is one of the main reasons , financing and the price differential new
So only 25 430 Cup’s, out there which may make them more desireable in the future.
Edited by Rocketreid on Friday 4th October 17:00
Whilst at Hethel we tracked both a Sport 410 and a Cup 350. Ignoring the power difference, dynamically they were very different indeed.
It almost felt like in the Cup you just jammed a middle finger up at the laws of physics and stopped and turned at speeds where the Sport would have struggled. It was racing car Vs road car.
If it were me buying the Exige for track use, I'd stretch for the Cup if at all possible.
It almost felt like in the Cup you just jammed a middle finger up at the laws of physics and stopped and turned at speeds where the Sport would have struggled. It was racing car Vs road car.
If it were me buying the Exige for track use, I'd stretch for the Cup if at all possible.
Baldchap said:
Whilst at Hethel we tracked both a Sport 410 and a Cup 350. Ignoring the power difference, dynamically they were very different indeed.
It almost felt like in the Cup you just jammed a middle finger up at the laws of physics and stopped and turned at speeds where the Sport would have struggled. It was racing car Vs road car.
If it were me buying the Exige for track use, I'd stretch for the Cup if at all possible.
Presumably you meant Cup 430 not 350.It almost felt like in the Cup you just jammed a middle finger up at the laws of physics and stopped and turned at speeds where the Sport would have struggled. It was racing car Vs road car.
If it were me buying the Exige for track use, I'd stretch for the Cup if at all possible.
In any event I fully agree, the Cup 430 is a properly sorted track car with fantastic road manners. All the additions over the 410 add up to a far better track set up with few disadvantages for road use
Rocketreid said:
Baldchap said:
Whilst at Hethel we tracked both a Sport 410 and a Cup 350. Ignoring the power difference, dynamically they were very different indeed.
It almost felt like in the Cup you just jammed a middle finger up at the laws of physics and stopped and turned at speeds where the Sport would have struggled. It was racing car Vs road car.
If it were me buying the Exige for track use, I'd stretch for the Cup if at all possible.
Presumably you meant Cup 430 not 350.It almost felt like in the Cup you just jammed a middle finger up at the laws of physics and stopped and turned at speeds where the Sport would have struggled. It was racing car Vs road car.
If it were me buying the Exige for track use, I'd stretch for the Cup if at all possible.
In any event I fully agree, the Cup 430 is a properly sorted track car with fantastic road manners. All the additions over the 410 add up to a far better track set up with few disadvantages for road use
Baldchap said:
Whilst at Hethel we tracked both a Sport 410 and a Cup 350. Ignoring the power difference, dynamically they were very different indeed.
It almost felt like in the Cup you just jammed a middle finger up at the laws of physics and stopped and turned at speeds where the Sport would have struggled. It was racing car Vs road car.
If it were me buying the Exige for track use, I'd stretch for the Cup if at all possible.
You sure you drove the 410? It almost felt like in the Cup you just jammed a middle finger up at the laws of physics and stopped and turned at speeds where the Sport would have struggled. It was racing car Vs road car.
If it were me buying the Exige for track use, I'd stretch for the Cup if at all possible.
I'm not defending it just because I'm am owner, but I highly doubt you'd notice the difference on one track session. Power wise, 410 Vs 430 they are similar enough to not be noticed that easily. The suspension setup is very similar. Weight is very similar and they wear the same tyres. The 410 is built on the 380Cup chassis so your 350 cup argument doesn't figure. Did you mean the R model? The track only car? Can't imagine any 350 model would have felt better than a 410 unless it was the R.
Edited by ecain63 on Sunday 6th October 10:14
Rocketreid said:
Baldchap said:
No, it was a 350.
Not sure there was a Cup 350, The previous Cup models were 380, 360 and Cup V6s and Track only Cup R
I'll see if I can find a picture of it...
This is the car in question.
Ignore the nomenclature, that's a red herring. This is a car with all the CURRENT cup bits on and everyone of the people who drove it (including several professional racing drivers) agreed it was noticeably better handling in terms of turn and stop than the 1000 mile old Sport 410.
I would therefore expect the current 430 Cup to be the same degree of 'better', if not more.
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