Next Elise - what do you want?

[bcr5784]

Well? Lotus owners? I'm an Alpine A110 owner and ex Elise owner and fan. You first.

[Venisonpie]

No more weight.
Better quality interior materials but no tech or more spec
Easier ingress/ egress
A smidge more luggage space
Better headlights

Otherwise I'd leave it as is.

[Zarco]

Keep it NA but I expect it'll be turbocharged.

[highway]

Update that Original Dinoesque styling. The S2 insectoid look was getting familiar by 2010. The S3 styling is one of the cars weakest points so big change please. Won't be sorry to see the awful door mirrors binned as well.

I'd love some innovation with brakes, like MMC's on the first S1. Maybe a carbon option if they can't reengineer the MMC tech.

Properly engineered air con with pipes that don't rust in the sill and are considered a service item. I took my Boxsters to Switzerland as without air con the Elise would have been unpleasant.

A slightly bigger, wider cabin. A properly engineered audio option. Maybe nav as well.

Not electric. Don't want it yet. Wait till the tech is properly there, don't rush to be first.

Under £50k



Design

[bcr5784]

Bit disappointed with the response to date. If this was a new Porsche by now we'd have had a hundred posts about contrasting stitching and the need for a colour matched nappa leather willy warmer.

But my thoughts. I'm probably one of the many who would like an Elise but who would find it just too impractical for the way I' d want to use the car and would have an impossible task selling it to the OH - except as my weekend fun car. She'd probably never go in it and certainly not drive it - hence the Alpine.

Clearly existing virues must be retained - steering feel and (for me) the lack of width. It doesn't make sense to go head to head with the Alpine, but some significant improvements in practicality are needed if the Elise is to appeal to a wider audience. The car will need to be a daily driver and/or holiday car for some - at least as a model variant. So:

1) Easier access - not much of an issue to me, I'm small, but it will be for many
2) More luggage space. I'd say 2 aircraft carry on bags plus a few odds and sods. That will almost certainly mean some extra length, which I don't mind so long as width is not affected. It will help with the drag coeffient, which currently is poor by class standards. (circa cd of .4 vs .3 for the opposition)
3) Much more refinement - enough so a decent infotainment system is useable on the motorway. This should be an option - not everyone wants it to be as quiet as the Alpine. Perhaps a seperate model (what the last Europa failed to deliver)
4) Steering needs assistence - so a real dilemma, which I notice Gordon Murray is grappling with for his new T50. Fully manual from (say) 40mph with decreasing assistance up to that speed. But how to engineer that without suffering feel robbing drag from the mechanism, I'll leave to the engineers. The scrubby understeer near full lock which makes the car feel clumsy on mini roundabouts and right angle junctions needs fixing (I don't remember it being so bad on my S1 but was dire on the Sport 220 I drove recently)
5) Engine. Another dilemma. I personally prefer the S220 engine to the turbo of the Alpine - less artificiallity to the noise - and delivers on improved throttle response over the Alpine (which many modern NA engines don't at medium to high revs). However the Alpine engine is much more "effective" - the 0-60 time advantage the Elise Sport 220 has is misleading. At higher speeds the Alpine is faster through the gears and vastly more flexible. The Alpine feels a lot faster car in practise. Economy of the Elise is also pretty poor. The engine needs more midrange to be competitive.
6) weight - no more than existing model spec for spec. If, as rumoured it's going to have a carbon tub it had better be lighter.
7) Trim - the Alpine comes in for some criticism in this area - but is far better than the Elise, so the more luxurious versions need to at least match the Alpine.
8) Again (optionally) similar to the base Alpine - but I would expect things like air con and sat nav to be extra or included in a "luxury" model
9) Price perhaps £50k for the base model if it has the kudos of a carbon tub.

[otolith]

I'd like it to remain a small, low, light car
I'd like it to retain unassisted steering
I'd like it to retain a simple, minimalist interior
I'd like it to remain a distinctive choice, not merely to ape the way bigger sellers drive

I'd like an exterior redesign which is visibly related to the Elise, but which looks fresh and is brave - it should look a bit exotic
I'd like it to have nicer materials in the cabin, particularly on the touch points
I'd like it not to have interior tech for the sake of it, but for the tech it does have to be modern - TFT dash, etc
I'd like it to feel better screwed together
I'd like better HVAC, lights
I'd like it to have a better power to weight ratio than its obvious competitors
If it has to be turbocharged, which it probably does, I'd like it to use mild hybrid torque fill or electrically assisted turbocharging to conceal that

I don't want it to be, but it will probably need to be slightly larger to give more shoulder room
I don't really care, but it will probably need easier ingress and exit
I'd rather a manual, but it will probably need a flappy paddle gearbox as at least an option

[300bhp/ton]

Priced closer to the MX-5 like the original S1 was. That way I stand a cat in hells chance of being able to afford one.

[bcr5784]

otolith said:

I'd rather a manual, but it will probably need a flappy paddle gearbox as at least an option

I should have mentioned that too. Alpine concluded that the market for manuals was small and even the Evora sells 50% with the auto option. Manual is still essential to maintain the existing fan base.

[otolith]

300bhp/ton said:

Priced closer to the MX-5 like the original S1 was. That way I stand a cat in hells chance of being able to afford one.

Needs to be more like Boxster money really. Mazda's pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap policy doesn't work for Lotus, and they're busy trying to take the brand upmarket.

[Composite Guru]

I think they need to stick to the original ethos.

Just don't go turning it into an over refined boredom mobile like the all the other cars on the market.

Up to date styling and better quality parts will see it good as there is nothing wrong with the underpinnings of that car.

[Tickle]

Minimal but well-built interior.
Unassisted steering
Light, sub-ton.
Lightweight achieved by innovative materials/production methods rather than crap build quality!
A light power-plant, the Toyota engine and associated sub frame was quite a bit heavier than K-Series.
If it’s a Geeley sourced turbo make sure its tuned to suite the car. Ideally a N/A revvy thing but I can’t see that happening!
Different trim options, from pared back to more touring spec and anything in-between
Keep the relatively small wheels, no need to go massive like other brands (and the Evora)
If possible, make the cars dimension, particularly the width the same (thinner sill design?) part of the appeal is the dimensions and placing the car on a road.
Quite importantly, it’s got to be a looker! Pretty, yet aggressive if that makes sense.

[otolith]

One of the things which might necessitate an increase in width is the need to meet current and future US safety standards for side impact protection, which is likely to require side airbags.

[bcr5784]

Composite Guru said:

I think they need to stick to the original ethos.

Just don't go turning it into an over refined boredom mobile like the all the other cars on the market.

Up to date styling and better quality parts will see it good as there is nothing wrong with the underpinnings of that car.

Unfortunately that ethos alone doesn't sell enough cars - 274 in total in the UK last year across all models (and that was the best year globally since 2011). A decent dealer base can't be maintained on so few cars. They absolutely must widen their appeal. Caterham sell more 7s than all the Elise/Exige variants put together in the UK!

[gareth h]

bcr5784 said:

Unfortunately that ethos alone doesn't sell enough cars - 274 in total in the UK last year across all models (and that was the best year globally since 2011). A decent dealer base can't be maintained on so few cars. They absolutely must widen their appeal. Caterham sell more 7s than all the Elise/Exige variants put together in the UK!

Crikey, that’s a surprising statistic!
In terms of a new car, I’d like to see a convertible 2 seater based on the Evora chassis, not sure about engine, I’m quite attached to the Toyota v6, although I don’t think it will be available for too much longer.

[otolith]

bcr5784 said:

Unfortunately that ethos alone doesn't sell enough cars - 274 in total in the UK last year across all models (and that was the best year globally since 2011). A decent dealer base can't be maintained on so few cars. They absolutely must widen their appeal.

There's a real tension there, though, because widening the appeal of the cars necessarily dilutes their distinctiveness. Most people want something ordinary, that's why ordinary things are ordinary. The challenge is; circumvent the things that narrow their appeal which are not in themselves part of their appeal (improve ease of ingress, for example); or, persuade more people that what they want is what Lotus offer; or, make the cars more ordinary but puff up the brand image so that people who are buying something ordinary think they are getting something special (strap door pulls and cosmetic carbon fibre on heavy cars, for example). An engineering solution or two marketing solutions.

bcr5784 said:

Caterham sell more 7s than all the Elise/Exige variants put together in the UK!

Which is interesting, because they're much narrower in appeal - but also start at much cheaper prices and are cheaper to build and design. I think Lotus's direction of travel is towards higher prices and more complete cars sold in global markets.

[Composite Guru]

bcr5784 said:

Unfortunately that ethos alone doesn't sell enough cars - 274 in total in the UK last year across all models (and that was the best year globally since 2011). A decent dealer base can't be maintained on so few cars. They absolutely must widen their appeal. Caterham sell more 7s than all the Elise/Exige variants put together in the UK!

I’ll be keeping mine then. If they water it down like all the other boring chod on the roads then that’s us done for.

[giveitfish]

bcr5784 said:

Unfortunately that ethos alone doesn't sell enough cars - 274 in total in the UK last year across all models (and that was the best year globally since 2011). A decent dealer base can't be maintained on so few cars. They absolutely must widen their appeal. Caterham sell more 7s than all the Elise/Exige variants put together in the UK!

They sold 3000 a year of the original S1 which was the most basic of the lot, and like you say the more focused Caterham also sells well,

I can see where you’re coming from in your earlier post but none of your requirements would be on my wish list. Room for two carry-on suitcases? More refinement? You’re not even describing an MX5, you’ve gone all the way to a Z4. Sounds like you want an Evora roadster, which would be a fine car but it’s not an Elise.

[highway]

Definitely needs to be wider in the cabin. It's uncomfortable driving with another man in the passenger seat. You are literally touching shoulders.

[bcr5784]

giveitfish said:

They sold 3000 a year of the original S1 which was the most basic of the lot, and like you say the more focused Caterham also sells well,

I can see where you’re coming from in your earlier post but none of your requirements would be on my wish list. Room for two carry-on suitcases? More refinement? You’re not even describing an MX5, you’ve gone all the way to a Z4. Sounds like you want an Evora roadster, which would be a fine car but it’s not an Elise.

I'm describing a car that covers more or less where the current Elise is to half way to an Alpine in terms of practicality (the Alpine takes two carry on cases in the front boot and a rear boot is at least as big as that of the Elise). The rear boot of an Elise has the volume for a carry on suitcase - but the limited opening and shape precludes it. Let me put it this way I'm looking for a car the size of my Lotus Europa S2 (not the more recent one) with similar (rather less in fact) boot space. Nothing like the length width or weight of a Z4. Gordon Murray said that the Alpine would be the perfect sports car if it was 4" narrower. I'm not sure I'd entirely agree - steering would need to match the Elise as well, but he's not far off the mark

[Kenzle]

Honestly I'd change very little. I love my little Elise.

The only things I want changed are the headlights - they desperately need to be upgraded to have a longer beam throw.
Sure, getting in an out isn't a particularly elegant manoeuvre but it all adds to the character of the car and makes driving it an event.

If I wanted a luxury two-seater with refinement, room for luggage, electric roof etc I would have bought a Z4 or a Boxster.