Lotus Elise S2 or S3

[survivalist]

Not sure if this is a contentious question, but having done loads of searches, watched You Tube Videos, I'm struggling to find a comparison between the S2 and S3 Elise.

I realise that the early S2 was K-Series and no TC/ABS etc. But how would a Toyota Engined 111R compare with a current 1.8L Elise?

Thanks in Advance.

S

[SeanyD]

Earlier s2's were k series, 120bhp or 160bhp.
Later s2's were toyota, 135bhp or 190bhp.
S3's are all toyota, not sure of power.

All of the above are much of a muchness 80% of the time on 80% of roads, although clearly different head to head.

The main difference you'll find is build quality, lotus confinually improve build quality so newer models will appear better built, less rattles, less leaks, better interior.

[survivalist]

Thanks.

I drove a S1 back when it was new and get that the early S2's were still bare bones i terms of spec (no ABS etc) and K_series.

Would be interested in a 190HP S2 vs 220HP S3 Comparison. Build quality improvements would be interesting. Clearly neither is a limo and for my purposes either would live in a garage and be used at weekends. So a bit more noise isn't an issue.

This is really what I'm struggling with. Is the S3 a better car, or just an S2 with a new front end and some better carpets.

Cheers
RG

[SeanyD]

190 s2 was normally aspirated and you have to work it hard to take advantage of the second cam kicking in, the 220 s3 is Supercharged so always on power. Very different behaviour and experience.

[kambites]

You could get a supercharged S2 as well.

The difference between the different series of Elise has never been enormous in itself; however Lotus have continually evolved the cars over the years, so each year has seen incremental improvements in build quality (and, at least until very recently, weight).

Re. supercharged vs naturally aspirated Toyota units - the 111R was a very high-revving engine; it had to be worked hard to produce its best. It also has a very pronounced cam change point which you'll either love or hate. The 220bhp supercharged engine doesn't actually make the car that much faster but it does make it much easier to drive fast. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is down to personal opinion.

ETA: Worth noting that Lotus have actually put two different 220(ish)bhp supercharged Toyota engines into the Elise - the 2ZZ and the 2ZR. The change over was around the time of the S2 to S3 switch but I don't think it exactly coincided. The earlier 2ZZ was higher-revving and is generally considered to be the more interesting/charismatic unit.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 12th May 20:26

[survivalist]

Thanks Kambites, exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Outside of the engine stuff, has the suspension changed much? Braking etc?

Or to put it another way, if you had 20-40k to spend on an Elise would you spend 20k on a good s2 or £40k on a newish s3?

[Thorburn]

I wrote a comparison piece between a facelift SC and one of the first MY12 Elise S' here: https://www.seloc.org/articles/driven/driven-elise...

[SeanyD]

Thorburn said:

I wrote a comparison piece between a facelift SC and one of the first MY12 Elise S' here: https://www.seloc.org/articles/driven/driven-elise...

That's a fab write up. Very informative.

[kambites]

survivalist said:

Thanks Kambites, exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Outside of the engine stuff, has the suspension changed much? Braking etc?

Or to put it another way, if you had 20-40k to spend on an Elise would you spend 20k on a good s2 or £40k on a newish s3?

Nothing fundamental has changed but lots of small things have.

You need to drive various models and form your own opinion. Personally I would (and did) buy a K-series car... primarily because I greatly prefer the unassisted brakes. If I wanted more power, my money would go on a Honda conversion based on a K-series car.

[survivalist]

kambites said:

survivalist said:

Thanks Kambites, exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Outside of the engine stuff, has the suspension changed much? Braking etc?

Or to put it another way, if you had 20-40k to spend on an Elise would you spend 20k on a good s2 or £40k on a newish s3?

Nothing fundamental has changed but lots of small things have.

You need to drive various models and form your own opinion. Personally I would (and did) buy a K-series car... primarily because I greatly prefer the unassisted brakes. If I wanted more power, my money would go on a Honda conversion based on a K-series car.

Thanks. Have to say I hadn’t even considered a Honda conversion. Do they hold their value or is it something people typically only do for longer term keepers?

I’m going to try and drive a few but the relatively low numbers of cars for sale makes that difficult.

On another topic, do people tend to tune the k series? Driven the Caterham variants with the 1.8 K and they were putting out some serious power. Given the light weight of an early S2 could you tune it to the extent of an R500? Or would the modest additional weight still be an issue?

[kambites]

Lotus themselves sold the K-series cars in power output ranging from 120bhp to 190bhp (although the Sport 190 is quite rare and expensive). I suspect that up to about 160bhp, it's cheaper to buy a car with the power you want than tune an existing one; beyond that it's probably cheaper to swap the engine out for something with more power out of the box. There are a few supercharged K-series Elises around.

I think the problem with tuning the K-series to the ~230bhp of the top end Caterhams is simply cost. There's a reason R500s are bloody expensive.

[survivalist]

Good point about the K-Series being expensive to tune. Also seem to remember that the R500 had to be rebuilt or refreshed every 5000 miles.