S2 Elise, is it for me???
Discussion
Hi folks, I'm a long term Pistonheader but not posted in this section before.
I'm wondering is an S2 Elise will suit me, I have in the past had 3 TVRs, a Westfield, 3 Impreza's and currently have an S3 as a daily and a 987 Boxster S as a "toy".
I currently have the Boxster up for sale and am thinking about an S2 111S or 111R as a replacement and am wondering what they are like to live with?
I'd be doing something like 2000 miles a year in one, what sort of running costs should I expect?
Are they reliable cars? I'm looking for something I can take out and enjoy on a weekend, not looking to spend a lot of time working on it, the last TVR went as I didn't have time to tinker with it enough.
I'm looking for something more entertaining than the Boxster, its a very capable car but needs to be going too fast before it feels entertaining, I suspect the Elise would achieve this without being quite as open to the elements as my Westfield was.
I've not driven an Elise yet but have been out in my mates S1 and liked it, my reasoning behind a 111S or R is that my daily is relatively quick and I've owned really fast cars in the past.
Any advise or comments would be appreciated, thanks in advance.
Nigel
I'm wondering is an S2 Elise will suit me, I have in the past had 3 TVRs, a Westfield, 3 Impreza's and currently have an S3 as a daily and a 987 Boxster S as a "toy".
I currently have the Boxster up for sale and am thinking about an S2 111S or 111R as a replacement and am wondering what they are like to live with?
I'd be doing something like 2000 miles a year in one, what sort of running costs should I expect?
Are they reliable cars? I'm looking for something I can take out and enjoy on a weekend, not looking to spend a lot of time working on it, the last TVR went as I didn't have time to tinker with it enough.
I'm looking for something more entertaining than the Boxster, its a very capable car but needs to be going too fast before it feels entertaining, I suspect the Elise would achieve this without being quite as open to the elements as my Westfield was.
I've not driven an Elise yet but have been out in my mates S1 and liked it, my reasoning behind a 111S or R is that my daily is relatively quick and I've owned really fast cars in the past.
Any advise or comments would be appreciated, thanks in advance.
Nigel
Choose a well maintained one and you’ll have trouble free motoring and virtually no depreciation. Very low running costs.
And best of all all great to drive. Much more analog and raw. Lots of versions to suit your pocket and speed requirements!
I’ve had a 118hp S1 which was nice and nimble but felt underpowered. Then an S2 SC with 220 hp. That was the sweet spot IMHO still nimble but plenty of proper grunt if you wanted it. But still involving at normal speeds. Now have V6 Exige, as it was an itch that needed scratching!
Sign up to SELOC and do your research and then try a few out.
And best of all all great to drive. Much more analog and raw. Lots of versions to suit your pocket and speed requirements!
I’ve had a 118hp S1 which was nice and nimble but felt underpowered. Then an S2 SC with 220 hp. That was the sweet spot IMHO still nimble but plenty of proper grunt if you wanted it. But still involving at normal speeds. Now have V6 Exige, as it was an itch that needed scratching!
Sign up to SELOC and do your research and then try a few out.
Based on your ownership, I'd suggest aiming for the 111S or 111R, as you may find anything <150bhp a little 'light' after the Boxster, but it does depend on how you like your power! If you prefer to really rev a car out, lower powered cars can be more fun.
Also, will refinement be an issue? Bear in mind they're noisy, can be a bit rattly too so long journeys or motorways can be tiresome. However, they ride well and have good seats, so are really quite comfy, but the noise can wear you down.
And please, please, please don't let anyone tell you to avoid the K-Series. I've seen it far too many times on here, but it's a brilliant engine. Yes, there is the HGF issue, but it's rare and easily sorted if caught early.
As always, see if you can drive a few first, they're all subtlety different.
Maybe not a 111S if you want to keep running costs down. They're all getting a bit old now. Yes, the K can be maintained, but it's the bloody hassle of doing so, not so much the cost.
111R, or maybe a SC would suit you very nicely. The Toyota engine takes a lot of the ownership cost worries away, and the SC would be grunty enough to satisfy, while the basic 190bhp 111R would still offer lots of revvy fun, just a bit less of a torque shove.
Judging from your enthusiast's collection, I'd say absolutely without doubt a Lotus is something you need to tick off the list. It will be different to everything else you've had. Not as fast as the Subarus on the road. Not as grunty as the TVRs. Not as light as the Westy. Not as nice inside as the Boxter. But if you really love your driving, none of that will matter. They really are a car everyone should own at least once (although warning, they get under your skin and you'll be trading up and up to Exige, Evora, and soon you'll be wondering if you really need a house more than a 430GT...
111R, or maybe a SC would suit you very nicely. The Toyota engine takes a lot of the ownership cost worries away, and the SC would be grunty enough to satisfy, while the basic 190bhp 111R would still offer lots of revvy fun, just a bit less of a torque shove.
Judging from your enthusiast's collection, I'd say absolutely without doubt a Lotus is something you need to tick off the list. It will be different to everything else you've had. Not as fast as the Subarus on the road. Not as grunty as the TVRs. Not as light as the Westy. Not as nice inside as the Boxter. But if you really love your driving, none of that will matter. They really are a car everyone should own at least once (although warning, they get under your skin and you'll be trading up and up to Exige, Evora, and soon you'll be wondering if you really need a house more than a 430GT...
I would go for the 111r, i have had mine for 4 years.
done 20k and its cost me a set of disks and pads and a set of tyres, i would say they are middle ground between your westy and boxster, feel special to drive like thee westy but more usable and comfy but not as much as the boxster.
No worries around engine issues and when the cam change come on it feels great.
Prices are good doubtful you will loose if you buy private.
done 20k and its cost me a set of disks and pads and a set of tyres, i would say they are middle ground between your westy and boxster, feel special to drive like thee westy but more usable and comfy but not as much as the boxster.
No worries around engine issues and when the cam change come on it feels great.
Prices are good doubtful you will loose if you buy private.
Thanks for the replies.
111R is my preference to be honest, timing chain over a belt will reduce maintenance cost especially on a car that's not doing many miles.
An SC would be nice but over what I really want to spend.
MattyB mentions they can be rattly, how bad are we talking, is this the odd trim rattle or am I going to feel like I'm in a bag of bolts, I have seen anti rattle door pins mentioned a few times?
I've notice a number have had the heater resister pack replaced, I gather it's a big job, how common is the failure?
Anything else in particular I should worry about?
Thanks again.
111R is my preference to be honest, timing chain over a belt will reduce maintenance cost especially on a car that's not doing many miles.
An SC would be nice but over what I really want to spend.
MattyB mentions they can be rattly, how bad are we talking, is this the odd trim rattle or am I going to feel like I'm in a bag of bolts, I have seen anti rattle door pins mentioned a few times?
I've notice a number have had the heater resister pack replaced, I gather it's a big job, how common is the failure?
Anything else in particular I should worry about?
Thanks again.
I ran a 111R as a daily for 13yrs, did about 75K miles in it, before it was written off.
Someone previously said if you like to rev the engine, that lower capcity makes it more fun, well the 111R needs to get above 6250rpm, before the fun really starts. You can get this lowered to 5250rpm(I think) with an ECM s/w flash.
Not sure what the draw of the Elise is to you, if it is the fact it is a convertible, then the Exige S2 is capable of having the roof removed and the Elise soft top added if that is of interest to you.
Rattles are not that bad and certainly not on the newer cars. With the roof off, you cant hear them at all
Someone previously said if you like to rev the engine, that lower capcity makes it more fun, well the 111R needs to get above 6250rpm, before the fun really starts. You can get this lowered to 5250rpm(I think) with an ECM s/w flash.
Not sure what the draw of the Elise is to you, if it is the fact it is a convertible, then the Exige S2 is capable of having the roof removed and the Elise soft top added if that is of interest to you.
Rattles are not that bad and certainly not on the newer cars. With the roof off, you cant hear them at all
The major problem with the heater is the plastic casing which falls apart. There is a very nice aluminium cased replacement heater just coming on the market for the VX220 which is an S2 under the skin. It is being made by T7 Design and costs £300. Look on VX220.org, there is loads about it there.
I have had my 111R for over 3 years but put it up for sale on Autotrader yesterday. ( Don’t think i am allowed to link but it is red and has done 49k)
It is a fun car to drive and very cheap to run. Mine is a second car/ toy but I have found it comfortable enough and done a few 100 mile plus motorway journeys.
It is a fun car to drive and very cheap to run. Mine is a second car/ toy but I have found it comfortable enough and done a few 100 mile plus motorway journeys.
As I am sure you are finding there are many views on which engine to go for, the K series or Toyota. I had the same choice and went for a 2005 111S, the reasons being there is something quite old school with the k series a long way from a modern engine. Also in real terms the difference between a 111S and a 111R is small, some gains for each depending on revs. Just google one vs the other and see the two camps supporting their choice.
I used to have a Celica so know the engine, in a heavier car, and the need to use high revs to access the extra power was wearing. The big kick at 6250 rpm is great but that is fast even in 2nd gear so not often used on the road in traffic. It is however much smoother than a K Series.
You really should try both and think will i track the car?
I used to have a Celica so know the engine, in a heavier car, and the need to use high revs to access the extra power was wearing. The big kick at 6250 rpm is great but that is fast even in 2nd gear so not often used on the road in traffic. It is however much smoother than a K Series.
You really should try both and think will i track the car?
With your history of enthusiasts' cars, it's definitely for you. It's the same engaging, analogue drive as the Westfield without the buffeting. It's surprisingly useable: I use it mostly on my 30 mile commute in good weather.
Running costs comparable to our Mini Cooper S and old MX~5 NC.
The K~series is so well matched to the car, so don't believe all the bad press. They're rising in value.
Mine's a 111s BTW, not even the best example but still a joyous thing to drive.
Running costs comparable to our Mini Cooper S and old MX~5 NC.
The K~series is so well matched to the car, so don't believe all the bad press. They're rising in value.
Mine's a 111s BTW, not even the best example but still a joyous thing to drive.
Thanks for all the responses and information.
I'm leaning towards the 111r but would look at a 111s depending what's available once I've sold the Porsche.
Sounded d daft but I prefer the exhaust positioning on the 111s, suppose I'd never be seeing that though.
Just had a little go in my mates s1, nice little thing and fairly easy to drive, difficult to get into but they have the bigger sills.
I'm leaning towards the 111r but would look at a 111s depending what's available once I've sold the Porsche.
Sounded d daft but I prefer the exhaust positioning on the 111s, suppose I'd never be seeing that though.
Just had a little go in my mates s1, nice little thing and fairly easy to drive, difficult to get into but they have the bigger sills.
nigelj77 said:
MattyB mentions they can be rattly, how bad are we talking, is this the odd trim rattle or am I going to feel like I'm in a bag of bolts, I have seen anti rattle door pins mentioned a few times?
I owned a s2 exige for a while and found the suspension too harsh for the roads up here, think the mistake I made was getting an exige as I believe the softer versions ride much better (not sure about the 111R). I had planned of running it as a daily but in the end I couldn't be bothered driving it and used the Volvo instead. Previous daily was a Cayman S.It's all down to roads and preference really but that was my experience (didn't find it to be too rattly), best giving whatever you plan to buy a drive a run down a moderately bumpy road to see how you find it prior to purchase
Dunc.
My mate says his S1 is rattly, I didn't think it was too bad the other day although the roof was off which probably helps.
The Boxster sold this week so the search can begin properly, there's a 111S very local which I haven called about but it looks from the MOT history that it may have been off the road for the last year or two.
There's also a 111R relatively close by, it seems over its time to have been laid up a couple of times and may have missed a service or two, being Toyota engine I'm sure it wont have done it any harm, just worries me come resale.
Being very up north (Newcastle) there aren't many cars near by to look at.
The Boxster sold this week so the search can begin properly, there's a 111S very local which I haven called about but it looks from the MOT history that it may have been off the road for the last year or two.
There's also a 111R relatively close by, it seems over its time to have been laid up a couple of times and may have missed a service or two, being Toyota engine I'm sure it wont have done it any harm, just worries me come resale.
Being very up north (Newcastle) there aren't many cars near by to look at.
Nigel, one very important consideration imo for reliability and build quality is to buy as late a model as possible. Build quality has apparently improved considerably over time.
I purposely went for a 2006 111R as I wanted a pre-airbag, post pedal box change, 2zz-ge car, but I have paid the price a little in buying an (at the time) 10 yr old Lotus, even though it is low mileage.
My CDL unit failed and there is apparently no replacement part available so that's been broken over 12 months.
My heater resistor pack failed, which is a clam off job to replace, so i did the recommended radiator replacement at the same time. Then steering rack play developed, so that got replaced. Then, no fault of the car as they were replacement (although Lotus factory parts) i got a leaky shock which needs replacing. That's in 2 years using it as an occasional car. Because I have to import all parts from the UK the car spends more time off the road than on it. But these are all the 'known weak points' that you read about. I think they have all occurred at once for me though.
There is also the expensive suspension refresh to consider on an older car at some point.
A newer car would not only be better built, but things that wear out would be a lot less likely to wear out for a while.
On the other hand, the car is so wonderful to drive I can easily forgive it all of the above. It is much more extreme that i was expecting, much rawer. My old Boxster (986) was lovely, but still a 'normal car'. The Elise is a pure sports car in comparison.
The other point is to drive the various models, so many differences that you either like or don't, engine, servo/non-servo brakes, S1/S2 etc. One of the hardest parts is deciding on a model as they are all different, but equally wonderful imo.
GL with the search
I purposely went for a 2006 111R as I wanted a pre-airbag, post pedal box change, 2zz-ge car, but I have paid the price a little in buying an (at the time) 10 yr old Lotus, even though it is low mileage.
My CDL unit failed and there is apparently no replacement part available so that's been broken over 12 months.
My heater resistor pack failed, which is a clam off job to replace, so i did the recommended radiator replacement at the same time. Then steering rack play developed, so that got replaced. Then, no fault of the car as they were replacement (although Lotus factory parts) i got a leaky shock which needs replacing. That's in 2 years using it as an occasional car. Because I have to import all parts from the UK the car spends more time off the road than on it. But these are all the 'known weak points' that you read about. I think they have all occurred at once for me though.
There is also the expensive suspension refresh to consider on an older car at some point.
A newer car would not only be better built, but things that wear out would be a lot less likely to wear out for a while.
On the other hand, the car is so wonderful to drive I can easily forgive it all of the above. It is much more extreme that i was expecting, much rawer. My old Boxster (986) was lovely, but still a 'normal car'. The Elise is a pure sports car in comparison.
The other point is to drive the various models, so many differences that you either like or don't, engine, servo/non-servo brakes, S1/S2 etc. One of the hardest parts is deciding on a model as they are all different, but equally wonderful imo.
GL with the search
Well today I looked at a 111S which was advertised locally, it was sensibly priced but needed a service and timing belt, wheel refurb and had particularly shabby suspension arms.
It seemed to go well, I let the seller drive and he did seem to struggle with gear shift linkage so something else required.
It did persued me that an Elise is what I'm looking for but that one just needed too much work.
It seemed to go well, I let the seller drive and he did seem to struggle with gear shift linkage so something else required.
It did persued me that an Elise is what I'm looking for but that one just needed too much work.
sege said:
Nigel, one very important consideration imo for reliability and build quality is to buy as late a model as possible. Build quality has apparently improved considerably over time.
I purposely went for a 2006 111R as I wanted a pre-airbag, post pedal box change, 2zz-ge car, but I have paid the price a little in buying an (at the time) 10 yr old Lotus, even though it is low mileage.
My CDL unit failed and there is apparently no replacement part available so that's been broken over 12 months.
My heater resistor pack failed, which is a clam off job to replace, so i did the recommended radiator replacement at the same time. Then steering rack play developed, so that got replaced. Then, no fault of the car as they were replacement (although Lotus factory parts) i got a leaky shock which needs replacing. That's in 2 years using it as an occasional car. Because I have to import all parts from the UK the car spends more time off the road than on it. But these are all the 'known weak points' that you read about. I think they have all occurred at once for me though.
There is also the expensive suspension refresh to consider on an older car at some point.
A newer car would not only be better built, but things that wear out would be a lot less likely to wear out for a while.
On the other hand, the car is so wonderful to drive I can easily forgive it all of the above. It is much more extreme that i was expecting, much rawer. My old Boxster (986) was lovely, but still a 'normal car'. The Elise is a pure sports car in comparison.
The other point is to drive the various models, so many differences that you either like or don't, engine, servo/non-servo brakes, S1/S2 etc. One of the hardest parts is deciding on a model as they are all different, but equally wonderful imo.
GL with the search
HiI purposely went for a 2006 111R as I wanted a pre-airbag, post pedal box change, 2zz-ge car, but I have paid the price a little in buying an (at the time) 10 yr old Lotus, even though it is low mileage.
My CDL unit failed and there is apparently no replacement part available so that's been broken over 12 months.
My heater resistor pack failed, which is a clam off job to replace, so i did the recommended radiator replacement at the same time. Then steering rack play developed, so that got replaced. Then, no fault of the car as they were replacement (although Lotus factory parts) i got a leaky shock which needs replacing. That's in 2 years using it as an occasional car. Because I have to import all parts from the UK the car spends more time off the road than on it. But these are all the 'known weak points' that you read about. I think they have all occurred at once for me though.
There is also the expensive suspension refresh to consider on an older car at some point.
A newer car would not only be better built, but things that wear out would be a lot less likely to wear out for a while.
On the other hand, the car is so wonderful to drive I can easily forgive it all of the above. It is much more extreme that i was expecting, much rawer. My old Boxster (986) was lovely, but still a 'normal car'. The Elise is a pure sports car in comparison.
The other point is to drive the various models, so many differences that you either like or don't, engine, servo/non-servo brakes, S1/S2 etc. One of the hardest parts is deciding on a model as they are all different, but equally wonderful imo.
GL with the search
My CDL wasn't working when I bought my Elise. I waited a while as Lotus said they may be making some more but it didn't happen. The module was removed and sent for repair and now works perfect. I think its mainly a relay inside the CDL that goes and can be replaced.
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