consensus on the MG, Z3, MX5 compared to elise ?
Discussion
Hi,
I thought i knew a few things about cars until i joined this forum and listened to some of the things being said ...... in actual fact i know bugger all.
Anyway, im always really annoyed by people showing off in MG's, Z3's, MX5's (especially MX5's) etc... the way i see it these cars are nothing compared to an Elise. They may look the part (in some peoples eyes) but they are not real sports cars. The 111R especially is ferrari and porche beating performance for £30K.
I mean how good are these so called sports cars mentioned above (MG, Z3, MX5) ?
Is my judgement misfounded ?
Thanks
Scott
I thought i knew a few things about cars until i joined this forum and listened to some of the things being said ...... in actual fact i know bugger all.
Anyway, im always really annoyed by people showing off in MG's, Z3's, MX5's (especially MX5's) etc... the way i see it these cars are nothing compared to an Elise. They may look the part (in some peoples eyes) but they are not real sports cars. The 111R especially is ferrari and porche beating performance for £30K.
I mean how good are these so called sports cars mentioned above (MG, Z3, MX5) ?
Is my judgement misfounded ?
Thanks
Scott
MGF - I consider this to be a nice ladies car
MX5 - Sisters car
Z3 - Hair dressers car.
To be honest though, the cars look soft and are setup for compromise. Top Z3 may be a blast but not as well balanced as an MX5.
If there is such a term I would say the MGF and MX5 are soft family convertables. These people may upgrade to cars such as the Honda S2000 or Boxster but when you are in this range you can stay soft or consider a more basic and raw elise. Less roll, more noise, spot on handling that is built with alot less compromise on features.
Personal preference at the end of the day but if they all looked the same and you just drove them you would see that they fit very different requirements.
Just my 2p worth.
MX5 - Sisters car
Z3 - Hair dressers car.
To be honest though, the cars look soft and are setup for compromise. Top Z3 may be a blast but not as well balanced as an MX5.
If there is such a term I would say the MGF and MX5 are soft family convertables. These people may upgrade to cars such as the Honda S2000 or Boxster but when you are in this range you can stay soft or consider a more basic and raw elise. Less roll, more noise, spot on handling that is built with alot less compromise on features.
Personal preference at the end of the day but if they all looked the same and you just drove them you would see that they fit very different requirements.
Just my 2p worth.
It depends what you consider a sports car I guess.
The Elise/VX actually look quite compromised compared to the 340R and Caterfields.
Even if the MX5/MGTF/Z3 were really rubbish to drive they would still sell because they look the part and a soft enough to live with for most people.
If the Elise/VX don't handle well, aren't fast then they are totally and utterly pointless. The roof, boot and CD player are about the only concessions the car makes!
The Elise/VX actually look quite compromised compared to the 340R and Caterfields.
Even if the MX5/MGTF/Z3 were really rubbish to drive they would still sell because they look the part and a soft enough to live with for most people.
If the Elise/VX don't handle well, aren't fast then they are totally and utterly pointless. The roof, boot and CD player are about the only concessions the car makes!
scotte said:
I mean how good are these so called sports cars mentioned above (MG, Z3, MX5) ?
MG - presume you mean MGF? If so, crap. It's a birds car, well not even a birds car... it's what Mrs Robinson drives on her way to the tennis club. I think it was designed to emulate a Philips Ladyshave, hence being a familiar shape for the ladies.
Z3 - overpriced and overrated unless it's got ZM on the back (and even then it's got to be the Coupe - apparently the Roadster is pants in comparison). Another poseurs car. A 'sports car' for people who know absolutely nothing about cars and see only the badge.
MX-5 - above all it's a hairdressers car, BUT handles and drives like a proper 2-seater sportscar should. Of the 3 it's miles ahead of the other 2 pretenders. It's what I'd recommend to any of my lady friends if they wanted a 'sporty' car or a drop-top but didn't want a 'proper' sportscar.
IMvHO none can touch an Elise for either design, dynamics, heritage or performance.
I had an L-reg, 60k mile Eunos Roadster (Jap-spec MX-5) 1.8 with limited slip diff for a couple of years before my 111R.
It was great fun, but curiously soulless as most Japanese cars are. Objectively it did everything you could ask of it, predictable handling, easy to power oversteer, good enough brakes, quick and easy watertight roof, acceptable boot, etc. It was utterly reliable too.
It wasn't that quick though and also quite softly sprung. I was tempted to modify it from the day I bought it.
The main reason I didn't bother was that the body structure is pretty flexible, as are most convertibles. The fundamental difference of the Elise that puts it above other sports cars for me is that the aluminium structure gives you lightness and stiffness. You feel the benefit of it every time you drive the car, whether you're dodging a pothole in town or flying round a track.
It was great fun, but curiously soulless as most Japanese cars are. Objectively it did everything you could ask of it, predictable handling, easy to power oversteer, good enough brakes, quick and easy watertight roof, acceptable boot, etc. It was utterly reliable too.
It wasn't that quick though and also quite softly sprung. I was tempted to modify it from the day I bought it.
The main reason I didn't bother was that the body structure is pretty flexible, as are most convertibles. The fundamental difference of the Elise that puts it above other sports cars for me is that the aluminium structure gives you lightness and stiffness. You feel the benefit of it every time you drive the car, whether you're dodging a pothole in town or flying round a track.
I had an Eunos before my Elise and I still say it's a great way to learn RWD. They're cheap and reliable (important when you're young, broke and saving for an Elise) and hugely chuckable.
Of course they don't compare to an Elise, but if your skin's thick enough to fend off the hairdresser digs then they're great fun and (in the right hands) very capable.
Bottom line: two totally different, very good cars serving two groups of buyers.
Gruffy
Of course they don't compare to an Elise, but if your skin's thick enough to fend off the hairdresser digs then they're great fun and (in the right hands) very capable.
Bottom line: two totally different, very good cars serving two groups of buyers.
Gruffy
I don't think that it is really fair to try and compare the MGF/MX5 with the Elise as apart from having 4 wheels, 2 seats and a soft top they are different animals
For one thing you get a MGF/MX5 for about £15K but an Elise will cost upwards of £25 and if you go for a fully specc'd 111R your looking at £32K.
Its a bit like comparing a Yaris with Scooby STI - they both have 4 wheels, 4 seats and a hard roof.
I have not mentioned the Z3 as I can't bring myself to defend them!
PS Don't take this too seriously!
For one thing you get a MGF/MX5 for about £15K but an Elise will cost upwards of £25 and if you go for a fully specc'd 111R your looking at £32K.
Its a bit like comparing a Yaris with Scooby STI - they both have 4 wheels, 4 seats and a hard roof.
I have not mentioned the Z3 as I can't bring myself to defend them!
PS Don't take this too seriously!
GF used to have an MGTF - I could hang the back end out as much as in the Elise, if not more and it gave lots of fun! It wasn't actually a bad car IMO - shockingly put together but about 10k less than the Elise new. A bit girly though 
MX-5s looks terrible IMO, but actually drive rather well - bloody good fun actually.
Z3 - horrible, perhaps with the exception of the later M roadster (with the current M3 engine)
Not sure how it can be said that the MG has less heritage than Lotus? They have been making cars much longer! Racing heritage might be a seperate issue
The Elise is sublime as you all know, a real sportscar and I enjoy driving mine a lot. Uncompromised it isn't though, just less compromised than other 'soft-tops' on the market. A caterham is closer to uncompromised IMO.
MX-5s looks terrible IMO, but actually drive rather well - bloody good fun actually.
Z3 - horrible, perhaps with the exception of the later M roadster (with the current M3 engine)
Not sure how it can be said that the MG has less heritage than Lotus? They have been making cars much longer! Racing heritage might be a seperate issue
The Elise is sublime as you all know, a real sportscar and I enjoy driving mine a lot. Uncompromised it isn't though, just less compromised than other 'soft-tops' on the market. A caterham is closer to uncompromised IMO.
Well, I've had two MX-5's, one of which I took up to 250hp with a turbo, programmable ECU and just about everything else. Now I've got a S1 111S and I'm looking for another MX-5 right now (in addition to the Elise that is). All this hairdresser stuff is bullsh**, people go on the stereotype image of the cars. Drive one, and you'll understand what they're about.
The Z3 and MGF are not even similar to the MX-5. Given the choice I'd take a Z3 over an F, but that's just my preference.
Sure, the MX-5 is not really that quick, but neither is the Elise in a straight line. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on a downer with the Elise - I love it but I do really miss the character of the MX-5 which is why I'm looking for another one.
FWIW, most MX-5 drivers actually aspire to owning an Elise as it is the next logical step up from the Mazda. I've been in the MX5OC many years, everyone there would probably admit the Elise is an awesome car but with it comes compromises. The Mazda is more your everyday sports car whereas the Elise is an out and out driving machine that only the hardcore few are happy to run everyday. I hate motorways in the Elise whereas in the Mazda they never bothered me.
I think if you had the opportunity to compare both the Mazda and an Elise back to back on the same road you'd find qualities you liked in both cars. The ability to hang the tail out in the Mazda is great fun and easily achievable at low speeds. The Mazda's gearbox is about as good a change as it gets. Ask Andrew Walsh - he thinks a lot of the MX-5.
Phil.
The Z3 and MGF are not even similar to the MX-5. Given the choice I'd take a Z3 over an F, but that's just my preference.
Sure, the MX-5 is not really that quick, but neither is the Elise in a straight line. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on a downer with the Elise - I love it but I do really miss the character of the MX-5 which is why I'm looking for another one.
FWIW, most MX-5 drivers actually aspire to owning an Elise as it is the next logical step up from the Mazda. I've been in the MX5OC many years, everyone there would probably admit the Elise is an awesome car but with it comes compromises. The Mazda is more your everyday sports car whereas the Elise is an out and out driving machine that only the hardcore few are happy to run everyday. I hate motorways in the Elise whereas in the Mazda they never bothered me.
I think if you had the opportunity to compare both the Mazda and an Elise back to back on the same road you'd find qualities you liked in both cars. The ability to hang the tail out in the Mazda is great fun and easily achievable at low speeds. The Mazda's gearbox is about as good a change as it gets. Ask Andrew Walsh - he thinks a lot of the MX-5.
Phil.
If they show off when I'm in my elise I'll give them a lesson or two. 
Speaking of away from the lights though, Scoobies do this all the time and I think they are very good cars.
Someone who knows about cars will expect this and those that don't will just think the driver is a tw@t. Of course in an MGF, MX5 or Z3 if the driver is acting like a loon then those in the know will think the driver is a tw@t just as much as those who consider all cars the same.
In the MX5 defence, I have never seen one being driven wildly. I have seen some MGF's on motorways break 100. Not seen many Z3's about the place for quite a while, usually white cap wide boy though.
So I have MGF as a ladies car, MX5 as a Sisters car/sensible conv, Z3 wide boy/bond wannabe.
Anyone have any idea on how owners of these marques see us?
Speaking of away from the lights though, Scoobies do this all the time and I think they are very good cars.
Someone who knows about cars will expect this and those that don't will just think the driver is a tw@t. Of course in an MGF, MX5 or Z3 if the driver is acting like a loon then those in the know will think the driver is a tw@t just as much as those who consider all cars the same.
In the MX5 defence, I have never seen one being driven wildly. I have seen some MGF's on motorways break 100. Not seen many Z3's about the place for quite a while, usually white cap wide boy though.
So I have MGF as a ladies car, MX5 as a Sisters car/sensible conv, Z3 wide boy/bond wannabe.
Anyone have any idea on how owners of these marques see us?
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