Newbie Help - Rev Limits?
Discussion
Hi,
I am the proud owner since yesterday of a '98 S1 Elise.
Drove back to Bedfordshire from Castle Lotus in torrential rain, couldn't be worse for a first trip in my new baby, but I still loved it!
A simple question (I hope): There's no red line on the rev limiter, so how far do you rev these? It's a standard S1, although it does gave sports exhaust and some kind of induction kit fitted.
TIA.
I am the proud owner since yesterday of a '98 S1 Elise.
Drove back to Bedfordshire from Castle Lotus in torrential rain, couldn't be worse for a first trip in my new baby, but I still loved it!
A simple question (I hope): There's no red line on the rev limiter, so how far do you rev these? It's a standard S1, although it does gave sports exhaust and some kind of induction kit fitted.
TIA.
THere is no red line on the rev counter, but there is a rev limiter fitted to the engine management system.
IIRC (it's a while since I had my Elise), the rev limiter cut in at about 6,800rpm, and despite what some people say about the non-VVC engine getting a bit breathless at the top end, mine seemed enthusiastic enough at those revs.
>> Edited by Martin_S on Monday 28th March 09:55
IIRC (it's a while since I had my Elise), the rev limiter cut in at about 6,800rpm, and despite what some people say about the non-VVC engine getting a bit breathless at the top end, mine seemed enthusiastic enough at those revs.
>> Edited by Martin_S on Monday 28th March 09:55
The rev limiter on my standard MEMS ECU kicked in at 7000 RPM with the power still climbing! 
(Please note engine is not standard.) As stated above, with a standard engine, after 5500 RPM you're just wasting time and you're out of the power band.
Set the Emerald limit to 7400 RPM as this is as far as I'm prepared to go with a standard bottom end.
Dan
(Please note engine is not standard.) As stated above, with a standard engine, after 5500 RPM you're just wasting time and you're out of the power band. Set the Emerald limit to 7400 RPM as this is as far as I'm prepared to go with a standard bottom end.
Dan
S Works said:
From memory the standard S1 is happy to 6000 rpm, no point in pushing beyond that. Peak power is around 5500 any way.
When 'pushing on' I change up at around 5.5, after that you're wasting valuable time
Depends upon the type of road you are 'pushing on' along! If you're doing a straight-line 0-whatever dash, then sure, it may be quicker to change up at 5.5K rpm.
If, on the other hand, you are on the twisties and the choice is between holding a gear until 7K rpm or changing up, only to change down again a second and a half later for a bend, wasting time with two gearchanges and unsettling the car for the bend, then it's a different matter.
It's called 'skilled driving judgement' I believe!
I believe "skilled driving judgement" would involve having the engine performing within its power band for as much of the time as possible! 
Just my 2p.
Dan
p.s. Skilled driving would also involve "heel and toeing" therefore not unsettling the car during gearchanges. This is after all a basic performance driving technique.
(Is it just me or am I in an argumentative mood tonight!)
>> Edited by djroadboy on Tuesday 29th March 21:31
Just my 2p.
Dan
p.s. Skilled driving would also involve "heel and toeing" therefore not unsettling the car during gearchanges. This is after all a basic performance driving technique.
(Is it just me or am I in an argumentative mood tonight!)
>> Edited by djroadboy on Tuesday 29th March 21:31
Yep, your in an argumentative mood, Dan.
Suggest you take a course at Prescott Hillclimb School with Roy Lane and Russ Ward.
Even if your heel-and-toe changes are so perfect that you never unsettle the car even slightly (and I must admit, mine aren't!), there still isn't any point in wasting time changing up a gear if you're going to change down again immediately afterward.
Changing gear takes time and you would be dropping to the bottom of the power band. Remember, it's a power curve - the power doesn't drop off dramatically anyway (specially with a bigger throttle body and a sports 'zorst)and the difference between torque at the wheels in a higher gear and the torque at the wheels holding a gear past the power peak in a lower gear isn't going to be worth the effort and delay of a gearchange.
Edited to add: anyway, bugger the hundredths of a second...it's worth holding the gears to 7,000 every now and then to savour the wail of the sports 'zorst!
>> Edited by Martin_S on Tuesday 29th March 22:14
Suggest you take a course at Prescott Hillclimb School with Roy Lane and Russ Ward.
Even if your heel-and-toe changes are so perfect that you never unsettle the car even slightly (and I must admit, mine aren't!), there still isn't any point in wasting time changing up a gear if you're going to change down again immediately afterward.
Changing gear takes time and you would be dropping to the bottom of the power band. Remember, it's a power curve - the power doesn't drop off dramatically anyway (specially with a bigger throttle body and a sports 'zorst)and the difference between torque at the wheels in a higher gear and the torque at the wheels holding a gear past the power peak in a lower gear isn't going to be worth the effort and delay of a gearchange.
Edited to add: anyway, bugger the hundredths of a second...it's worth holding the gears to 7,000 every now and then to savour the wail of the sports 'zorst!
>> Edited by Martin_S on Tuesday 29th March 22:14
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I can see you're point to a certain extent but in the short instances of going above 5.5k to avoid 2 gearchanges in quick succession I can't see how you would get close to 7k. With the drop-off in power/torque after 5.5k it will take quite a while to reach 7k and a gearchange or two would probably have been quicker.
Anyway, its your car and you can drive it how you like so enjoy!
Anyway, its your car and you can drive it how you like so enjoy!
Does depend on what gear you're in though, doesn't it?
5.5K to 7K in first or second on tight twisties would take not very long at all.
3rd to 4th might be a different matter.
If you're using 5th on any sort of challenging road, you're not trying.
And remember, since the thread originated mainly with near standard non-VVC cars, we are probably talking about standard, wide-ratio gearboxes.
5.5K to 7K in first or second on tight twisties would take not very long at all.
3rd to 4th might be a different matter.
If you're using 5th on any sort of challenging road, you're not trying.
And remember, since the thread originated mainly with near standard non-VVC cars, we are probably talking about standard, wide-ratio gearboxes.
So, in a nut shell Si,
Change up at 5500, or there abouts, when moving up through the gears.
Holding on for another 1000 won't do any harm if you are on a section of road that might otherwise demand lots of up /down shifts.
Or buy a 111S and let rip to 6500 all the time!
Everyone happy?
Duncs
Change up at 5500, or there abouts, when moving up through the gears.
Holding on for another 1000 won't do any harm if you are on a section of road that might otherwise demand lots of up /down shifts.
Or buy a 111S and let rip to 6500 all the time!
Everyone happy?
Duncs
Bob_Defly said:
Ha ha, at least I know it's not going to blow a gasket!!
You're talking to a guy who traded in a perfectly good Elise for a TVR Griffith.
What makes you think I'd be even remotely interested in reliability?!
edited to add: or revs, or changing gear, come to think of it...I'll get me coat...
>> Edited by Martin_S on Tuesday 29th March 23:41
Martin_S and djroadboy said:
...had a good rant
Frankly, skilled driving judgement or no, I'm no GP driver and neither are you, so it's mainly about having fun. I'm getting to know how to enjoy my car within my limits, and that doesn't mean ragging it's tits off. Frankly most days out driving, you really don't need to go above 5.5k do you?
Dunno. Obviously we have very different driving styles, and possibly very different skill levels.
In the Elise, yes, I did exceed 5.5K every time I used the car, almost without exception. I probably didn't need to, but then I couldn't honestly say that I needed to spend a 5-figure sum on a 2 seat, mid-engined weekend toy when my company gives me perfectly practical, reliable transport and the petrol to run it on, both for free.
Ditto the company tin box (Seat Leon). It would be a very unusual day when I didn't come close to the rev limiter (6,750 rpm), but I probably don't need to drive it that hard.
No, I'm no GP driver (though I have made part of my living setting up race cars in the past), but the limits of the Elise are low enough and benign enough that bouncing it off the rev limiter every now and then doesn't exactly constitute gross recklessness.
I don't often take the Griffith above 5K, but then that's a very different beast and 5K+ through the lower gears is twilight zone stuff, with much wheelspin and lairy handling. A 5-litre V8 is more about torque than revs, anyway, of course.
Didn't realise I was ranting, though - sorry!
Each to their own, but I reckon Duncs' last post has got closest to a concise, sensible answer to the original question.
>> Edited by Martin_S on Wednesday 30th March 01:15
In the Elise, yes, I did exceed 5.5K every time I used the car, almost without exception. I probably didn't need to, but then I couldn't honestly say that I needed to spend a 5-figure sum on a 2 seat, mid-engined weekend toy when my company gives me perfectly practical, reliable transport and the petrol to run it on, both for free.
Ditto the company tin box (Seat Leon). It would be a very unusual day when I didn't come close to the rev limiter (6,750 rpm), but I probably don't need to drive it that hard.
No, I'm no GP driver (though I have made part of my living setting up race cars in the past), but the limits of the Elise are low enough and benign enough that bouncing it off the rev limiter every now and then doesn't exactly constitute gross recklessness.
I don't often take the Griffith above 5K, but then that's a very different beast and 5K+ through the lower gears is twilight zone stuff, with much wheelspin and lairy handling. A 5-litre V8 is more about torque than revs, anyway, of course.
Didn't realise I was ranting, though - sorry!
Each to their own, but I reckon Duncs' last post has got closest to a concise, sensible answer to the original question.
>> Edited by Martin_S on Wednesday 30th March 01:15
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff