Thinking of coming back into the fold - S1 160
Discussion
I've had an S2 Elise and a 340R, but haven't had a lotus for a few years. After taking delivery of a very capable auto BMW, I think I need a little manual sportscar for sunny weekends, so my mind wanders back towards Lotus!
I've never had an S1, and really fancy a Sport 160 (scandal green or maybe black if I'm being really picky). But, my knowledge is rusty....
How limited were they? I'm assuming I've picked the most expensive variant (190 aside), as that's what usually happens?
What sort of money am I looking at for a nice, usable one?
Are there any other variants worth thinking about?
Thanks all
I've never had an S1, and really fancy a Sport 160 (scandal green or maybe black if I'm being really picky). But, my knowledge is rusty....
How limited were they? I'm assuming I've picked the most expensive variant (190 aside), as that's what usually happens?
What sort of money am I looking at for a nice, usable one?
Are there any other variants worth thinking about?
Thanks all
If you really fancy one, then don't be put off, but I owned a black 160 (after having owned a standard 118bhp S1 previously), and I have to say that it wouldn't be my first choice if I were to buy another Elise.
The mapping of the engine in the 'standard' cars (as they left Lotus) was simply atrocious, so they had lumpy idle and were pretty gutless at low revs.
The seats on the 'full' Sport 160 (as opposed to the plain 160 - which were different) were pretty uncomfortable, I found, being little more than rigid shells.
The Lotus Sport Suspension will be shagged by now, if original, but in any case Nitrons are better.
If I were looking for another S1 Elise, Honda conversions aside, I'd be looking for a 111S. Better seats, very nearly as much power, but delivered in a much more tractable and usable manner.
The mapping of the engine in the 'standard' cars (as they left Lotus) was simply atrocious, so they had lumpy idle and were pretty gutless at low revs.
The seats on the 'full' Sport 160 (as opposed to the plain 160 - which were different) were pretty uncomfortable, I found, being little more than rigid shells.
The Lotus Sport Suspension will be shagged by now, if original, but in any case Nitrons are better.
If I were looking for another S1 Elise, Honda conversions aside, I'd be looking for a 111S. Better seats, very nearly as much power, but delivered in a much more tractable and usable manner.
Edited by Equus on Monday 3rd October 00:38
Thanks for the comments - helpful to know!
My 340R was pretty uncivilised (it was the 190 VHPD) and the seats were probably similar, so I've an idea what to expect I think. I remember back in the day, people were putting 'emerald' ECUs on cars to improve the mapping, so I'd probably look to do something similar.
I appreciate suspension is going to be knackered now - I'd want a full refresh anyway (do people still use Nitrons)?
To be honest, its the look of the 160 I really like - lower, higher spoiler, wheels etc - I know I could make a 111s look like that, but I think it's more sensible to start with the right car and make it a little more drivable if I need to.
My 340R was pretty uncivilised (it was the 190 VHPD) and the seats were probably similar, so I've an idea what to expect I think. I remember back in the day, people were putting 'emerald' ECUs on cars to improve the mapping, so I'd probably look to do something similar.
I appreciate suspension is going to be knackered now - I'd want a full refresh anyway (do people still use Nitrons)?
To be honest, its the look of the 160 I really like - lower, higher spoiler, wheels etc - I know I could make a 111s look like that, but I think it's more sensible to start with the right car and make it a little more drivable if I need to.
Maxf said:
I remember back in the day, people were putting 'emerald' ECUs on cars to improve the mapping, so I'd probably look to do something similar.
It's the cam timing that's the other part of the problem - you need to fit vernier cam pulleys and get them properly timed.But you're still left with an engine with fixed cam timing, so it will still be peakier than the VVC, and significantly more gutless at lower revs.
If you get one, make sure it has the CR box, which if I remember correctly was optional.
I have a 160 - great little machine. Mine is upgraded and most will no doubt require work.
I think you may be waiting a while for any 160, irrespective of colour. If it has to be black or scandal and you want something lowish mikes and decent, you may be in for an even longer wait. I don't think there are many around as a lot have been exported. Think Castle Lotus had a 85k mile car in Scandal for about £19k I think.
I think you may be waiting a while for any 160, irrespective of colour. If it has to be black or scandal and you want something lowish mikes and decent, you may be in for an even longer wait. I don't think there are many around as a lot have been exported. Think Castle Lotus had a 85k mile car in Scandal for about £19k I think.
Thanks - mileage doesnt bother me, but I dont want a basketcase either. I'm flexible on colour.
Castle had that a while ago I think - I must admit I'm somewhat tempted by their 190 S2, which would be hilarious fun (until the rebuild). It's pushing the budget a little too far though, as I've told the Mrs I'd get one for about £12k, so am already employing some stealth topping up to S160 money.
Castle had that a while ago I think - I must admit I'm somewhat tempted by their 190 S2, which would be hilarious fun (until the rebuild). It's pushing the budget a little too far though, as I've told the Mrs I'd get one for about £12k, so am already employing some stealth topping up to S160 money.
Yeah, if you managed to actually get one for £12k then it'd have to be a high miler or some other kind of downer.
If you needed that specific colour then you might even need to consider buying one and going for a respray or living with it.
I'm on my 2nd Sport 160 now, first one was a WVTA - sold it to buy an engine converted S1 which didn't really work out. Tried a Boxster S (boring) and ended up with a VX220 Turbo for a couple of years - whilst that in itself was pretty flipping brilliant I still really missed the 160, it's something special that gets under your skin.
The one I've got now is one of the first 50 SVA cars which I've been told are "the real deal", "more raw", etc. Maybe they are but I can't tell a huge difference from the WVTA though that one did have a carbon airbox and decat.
Glad to say that mine is still 100% original aside from the sensible swop from LSS to Nitrons.
I've not overly considered the ECU 'upgrade' as I like the fact that it's occasionally moody and cantankerous. It's got character - in bucketloads!!
Whilst I agree that on paper, and as a logical proposition, then the 111S makes a very sensible choice. I didn't want sensible though, I wanted something that rewards and does that rump-rump-rump on idle rather than sewing machine power.
Keep your eyes peeled on the classifieds, they do come up occasionally but fairly infrequently - I think you might need to get working on that man-maths though
If you needed that specific colour then you might even need to consider buying one and going for a respray or living with it.
I'm on my 2nd Sport 160 now, first one was a WVTA - sold it to buy an engine converted S1 which didn't really work out. Tried a Boxster S (boring) and ended up with a VX220 Turbo for a couple of years - whilst that in itself was pretty flipping brilliant I still really missed the 160, it's something special that gets under your skin.
The one I've got now is one of the first 50 SVA cars which I've been told are "the real deal", "more raw", etc. Maybe they are but I can't tell a huge difference from the WVTA though that one did have a carbon airbox and decat.
Glad to say that mine is still 100% original aside from the sensible swop from LSS to Nitrons.
I've not overly considered the ECU 'upgrade' as I like the fact that it's occasionally moody and cantankerous. It's got character - in bucketloads!!
Whilst I agree that on paper, and as a logical proposition, then the 111S makes a very sensible choice. I didn't want sensible though, I wanted something that rewards and does that rump-rump-rump on idle rather than sewing machine power.
Keep your eyes peeled on the classifieds, they do come up occasionally but fairly infrequently - I think you might need to get working on that man-maths though
Equus said:
The seats on the 'full' Sport 160 (as opposed to the plain 160 - which were different) were pretty uncomfortable, I found, being little more than rigid shells.
Both my 160's (WVTA and SVA) had the correct seats, solid shells with not much padding and a nice alcantara seat pad.I've done hundreds of miles at a stretch in these and find them great, personally if I bought a 160 without them (some were fitted with namby-pamby leather) then I'd definitely be on the lookout for the right ones. It's part of the whole 'package'
Equus said:
The Lotus Sport Suspension will be shagged by now, if original, but in any case Nitrons are better.
Yeah, mine had only done 30k but after erm... 14-ish years (guessing) they were doing that billiard ball noise all the time. Weren't overly bad at damping but when I went to Nitrons, well, it was worthwhile doing for sure.At the time I wanted to get the LSS rebuilt but couldn't find anywhere to do it. It is possible to get these refurbed now.
Equus said:
Maxf said:
I remember back in the day, people were putting 'emerald' ECUs on cars to improve the mapping, so I'd probably look to do something similar.
It's the cam timing that's the other part of the problem - you need to fit vernier cam pulleys and get them properly timed.But you're still left with an engine with fixed cam timing, so it will still be peakier than the VVC, and significantly more gutless at lower revs.
If you get one, make sure it has the CR box, which if I remember correctly was optional.
Can't say that I ever thought of a 0-60 in 5-ish car as 'gutless', I must admit that sometimes I do wish it was a Sport 200 - but realistically it's more than enough down a country lane. Plus we're only talking about having more fun around 3,500 upwards, it's not like a vtec "gotta hunt down 6k" type of challenge.
Good shout on the CR box, but realistically if you wait for one to come up in the classifieds then you could be waiting for a veeeerrry long time. Better to get the car and change the box if you want, a relatively cheap upgrade.
Moospeed said:
Yeah, if you managed to actually get one for £12k then it'd have to be a high miler or some other kind of downer.
Oh I know I wont get a 160 for that - I initially thought about 'an' S1 Elise, which I'd have got for that I think.Good point on the respray! I hadn't thought about that.
If it's not a 160, I'd just get an S2 - and there's no point in that
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