Best Elise for Honda conversion
Discussion
Happy memories of the Civic Type R I bought in 2002. Really miss that engine and gearbox. Toying with an Elise to fill an empty space in the garage. If the Elise agrees with me I'd be looking to swap the engine for a Honda unit. With this in mind what would be the best Elise to fit with a Honda engine?
I'm not worried about absolute performance and I know that is an odd thing to say given what I'm planning. I just want to avoid the situation where my Honda conversion costs more than it needs to because I bought the wrong car and have to upgrade loads of other components or perhaps more annoyingly I spend a lot on a higher spec car which still isn't up to the extra Honda power.
I'm not worried about absolute performance and I know that is an odd thing to say given what I'm planning. I just want to avoid the situation where my Honda conversion costs more than it needs to because I bought the wrong car and have to upgrade loads of other components or perhaps more annoyingly I spend a lot on a higher spec car which still isn't up to the extra Honda power.
Agreed, the S2 is considerably easier to live with day-to-day. The exact spec is really down to your personal preferences. The stock brakes will be untroubled on the road, as will the suspension.
I'd look at an early S2 and a late one to see which you prefer. Lots of minor tweaks over the years which added both comfort and weight. I switched from a 58-plate SC with Touring pack to an 03-plate 135R (Honda converted) recently and they're quite different inside.
I'd look at an early S2 and a late one to see which you prefer. Lots of minor tweaks over the years which added both comfort and weight. I switched from a 58-plate SC with Touring pack to an 03-plate 135R (Honda converted) recently and they're quite different inside.
I would say "best" starting point for road use is probably an S2 111S because they were the last of the K-series cars and the cars generally improved over the years as Lotus fixed the niggles. The 111S carries a significant premium over a "normal" K-series S2 though.
If you definitely want a Honda powered cars, it's probably going to be cheaper to buy one that's already been converted.
If you definitely want a Honda powered cars, it's probably going to be cheaper to buy one that's already been converted.
Edited by kambites on Monday 8th August 21:15
Thanks for the replies. It's good to know that it doesn't really make much difference.
Wrt buying a converted car, the ones I have seen are very often expensive because the mods don't stop at the engine or they get supercharged as well. I'm also very fussy about colour - no dark blues, blacks, silvers - I want a cheery colour. I'm not in a rush and will keep my eyes peeled.
Wrt buying a converted car, the ones I have seen are very often expensive because the mods don't stop at the engine or they get supercharged as well. I'm also very fussy about colour - no dark blues, blacks, silvers - I want a cheery colour. I'm not in a rush and will keep my eyes peeled.
Having gone through the history that came with mine, it's considerably cheaper to buy one that's already been converted. It's all the little extras that you end up wanting (lower final drive, LSD etc) that really stack the costs up but transform the car. I'd recommend looking out for one close to your desired spec and tweaking from there. Even getting a full respray in a different colour will most likely be cheaper in the long run that way.
Example: A charge cooler was added a while after all the other work was done on mine. Once you include all the sundry bits, labour, mapping etc, the cost for that alone was horribly close to £10k. It probably added less than £2k to what I paid.
Example: A charge cooler was added a while after all the other work was done on mine. Once you include all the sundry bits, labour, mapping etc, the cost for that alone was horribly close to £10k. It probably added less than £2k to what I paid.
Edited by jaik on Wednesday 10th August 20:46
jaik said:
Having gone through the history that came with mine, it's considerably cheaper to buy one that's already been converted. It's all the little extras that you end up wanting (lower final drive, LSD etc) that really stack the costs up but transform the car. I'd recommend looking out for one close to your desired spec and tweaking from there. Even getting a full respect in a different colour will most likely be cheaper in the long run that way.
Example: A charge cooler was added a while after all the other work was done on mine. Once you include all the sundry bits, labour, mapping etc, the cost for that alone was horribly close to £10k. It probably added less than £2k to what I paid.
Why would you need a lower final drive and an lsd for a road based N/A conversion?Example: A charge cooler was added a while after all the other work was done on mine. Once you include all the sundry bits, labour, mapping etc, the cost for that alone was horribly close to £10k. It probably added less than £2k to what I paid.
The K-Series cars (S1, 340r, early S2) seem to be the 'usual' base car, I take it this is because the Honda unit and ancillaries pair-up better with whats left after you remove the K and gearbox, plus you are starting with a cheaper car with an engine that some don't like. Personally I like the K-series and what the K cars offer over the Toyota ones (none servo, non abs brakes).
Maidstones have a price list on thier webpage: http://www.maidstonesportscars.co.uk/services/perf...
This does show a premium for the Toyota cars.
Dan Webster at HPE produces some very nice conversions too, if funds allowed this is where I would be taking my S1
http://www.hpeauto.co.uk/gallery/
Maidstones have a price list on thier webpage: http://www.maidstonesportscars.co.uk/services/perf...
This does show a premium for the Toyota cars.
Dan Webster at HPE produces some very nice conversions too, if funds allowed this is where I would be taking my S1
http://www.hpeauto.co.uk/gallery/
I don't think it's worth converting the 190bhp Toyota models to the 200bhp Honda. Better to use a K-series car, which will end up lighter, unless you really want ABS brakes and newer interior in which case you might consider one of the 134bhp Toyotas, which are a bit cheaper. I'd go for an early short roof K-series S2 with the basic engine.
Maybe consider a Toyota 2zz engined car instead. At 190bhp with a lift cam, similar characteristics to the Honda engines though not as high potential for peak power/performance (which it doesn't sound like you're fussed about?).
Either that, or an S2000 would probably satisfy your vtec craving enough whilst giving a car which us much more rewarding to drive than the Civic.
I'm a 2zz Elise driver, and ex Type R owner - and I'm happy to say that the 2zz scratches the itch fine
Either that, or an S2000 would probably satisfy your vtec craving enough whilst giving a car which us much more rewarding to drive than the Civic.
I'm a 2zz Elise driver, and ex Type R owner - and I'm happy to say that the 2zz scratches the itch fine
Lefty said:
I'm surprised at the lower final drive comment too - if anything I'd say it might need a taller/longer final drive ratio. Mine is only NA but it feels undergeared to me. 80mph in 6th is about 4000rpm for info.
A lower ratio final drive will give longer gearing Stock is 4.7:1 in the box from a UK EP3, I believe. Going to a 4.1:1 would bring the RPM at 80mph down to <3500.4000 / 4.7 * 4.1 = 3489
That HPEAUTO conversion looks very high quality. It's a little more than the Maidstone conversion, but it certainly looks like it's worth the extra. I'd need to examine precisely what you get with each conversion, but the rebuilt engine and gearbox is a big plus over a second hand equivalent.
Wrt to S2000, I've had three tests drives over the years and every one was disappointing. I desperately wanted to love it, but the cockpit is cramped, the steering vague and the engine isn't a patch on the iVTEC unit in the CTR.
Wrt to S2000, I've had three tests drives over the years and every one was disappointing. I desperately wanted to love it, but the cockpit is cramped, the steering vague and the engine isn't a patch on the iVTEC unit in the CTR.
kambites said:
I would say "best" starting point for road use is probably an S2 111S because they were the last of the K-series cars and the cars generally improved over the years as Lotus fixed the niggles. The 111S carries a significant premium over a "normal" K-series S2 though.
If you definitely want a Honda powered cars, it's probably going to be cheaper to buy one that's already been converted.
Sorry worth a plug If you definitely want a Honda powered cars, it's probably going to be cheaper to buy one that's already been converted.
Edited by kambites on Monday 8th August 21:15
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...
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