Elise engine history/types
Discussion
Greetings from down under!
A colleague and I are looking at options for building our own car, similar to an Atom. I'm a mechanical engineer and he's a welding engineer so its not that much of a crazy idea
When considering engine options, we've been talking about existing mid and rear engine cars, trying to find the best source of donor parts for our car. During this process we've found the Elise. Whilst we would never find a suitably cheap/wrecked Elise here in Western Australia, we're interested in the car that Lotus also used as their "donor"
A quick look on Wikipedia shows the Toyota 2GR-FE engine from the Camry has been used is a variety of Elise type Lotus, but just how "standard" was/is that engine?
There are hundreds of wrecked Camry available locally so finding a decent engine shouldn't be hard.
Also, somewhere in the back of my mind I think some people fit Honda engines to older Elise? What's the benefit in doing that? reliability or tune-ability?
Does the Elise use anything else from the Camry parts bin or is it engine only?
Thanks.
A colleague and I are looking at options for building our own car, similar to an Atom. I'm a mechanical engineer and he's a welding engineer so its not that much of a crazy idea
When considering engine options, we've been talking about existing mid and rear engine cars, trying to find the best source of donor parts for our car. During this process we've found the Elise. Whilst we would never find a suitably cheap/wrecked Elise here in Western Australia, we're interested in the car that Lotus also used as their "donor"
A quick look on Wikipedia shows the Toyota 2GR-FE engine from the Camry has been used is a variety of Elise type Lotus, but just how "standard" was/is that engine?
There are hundreds of wrecked Camry available locally so finding a decent engine shouldn't be hard.
Also, somewhere in the back of my mind I think some people fit Honda engines to older Elise? What's the benefit in doing that? reliability or tune-ability?
Does the Elise use anything else from the Camry parts bin or is it engine only?
Thanks.
The 2GR-FE is fitted to the latest Exige models; everything else fitted OEM in the 111 chassis is a four-pot. The V6 is also used in the Evora. As fitted to the Exige, the 2GR-FE is supercharged running Lotus's own ECU, but as far as I know the internals are all standard.
Honda transplants tend to be done to early K-series powered cars so it gives a very hefty power increase (from 120bhp up to 220+bhp for a naturally aspirated engine; well over 300 is possible with a supercharger). The K20 is popular for a number of reasons - it's about the same size and weight as the Rover K-series whilst being a lot more powerful; it has a fantastic power delivery for a sports car; it has a very good gearbox which is set up for transverse installation; it's easy to obtain second-hand (there's lots of written off Civic Type-Rs in the UK).
Other popular transplants are Ford Duratecs (which mate reasonably easily to the Rover gearbox making the transplant considerably cheaper) and VAG turbos (both the old 1.8t and newer 2.0TFSI) which are rather heavy but tunable for huge power. If you're going to install your engine transversely, you can use pretty much any engine that's set up for a front-engined FWD installation. You'll just need to locate it correctly to get a sensible half-shaft angle and probably manufacture your own half-shafts to get the track width right.
Going longitudinal limits your choices but arguably results in a better setup. Your best bet would probably be to look for an Audi donor - the bigger Audis still use longitudinal engines mounted in front of the front axle driving the front wheels which would be ideal for a mid-engined car. Some of the bigger engines may not be available in FWD though and having to deal with a 4wd gearbox would make things more complicated.
Honda transplants tend to be done to early K-series powered cars so it gives a very hefty power increase (from 120bhp up to 220+bhp for a naturally aspirated engine; well over 300 is possible with a supercharger). The K20 is popular for a number of reasons - it's about the same size and weight as the Rover K-series whilst being a lot more powerful; it has a fantastic power delivery for a sports car; it has a very good gearbox which is set up for transverse installation; it's easy to obtain second-hand (there's lots of written off Civic Type-Rs in the UK).
Other popular transplants are Ford Duratecs (which mate reasonably easily to the Rover gearbox making the transplant considerably cheaper) and VAG turbos (both the old 1.8t and newer 2.0TFSI) which are rather heavy but tunable for huge power. If you're going to install your engine transversely, you can use pretty much any engine that's set up for a front-engined FWD installation. You'll just need to locate it correctly to get a sensible half-shaft angle and probably manufacture your own half-shafts to get the track width right.
Going longitudinal limits your choices but arguably results in a better setup. Your best bet would probably be to look for an Audi donor - the bigger Audis still use longitudinal engines mounted in front of the front axle driving the front wheels which would be ideal for a mid-engined car. Some of the bigger engines may not be available in FWD though and having to deal with a 4wd gearbox would make things more complicated.
Edited by kambites on Monday 11th July 09:07
This article might be of interest: http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/engin...
Also: http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Engine_conversions
The S1 Elise and early Ariel Atom both shared a lot of components with the MGF. The Rover K-series engine is REALLY light. Depending on the weight you're cars going to end up, have you considered bike engines? You can add forced induction if necessary.
Whilst I know it's not an option for now; Nissan are working on a 3 cylinder, 1.5 litre turbo charged engine which will be perfect for project like this when (if) they come to market: http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/28/nissan-three-cy...
Also: http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Engine_conversions
The S1 Elise and early Ariel Atom both shared a lot of components with the MGF. The Rover K-series engine is REALLY light. Depending on the weight you're cars going to end up, have you considered bike engines? You can add forced induction if necessary.
Whilst I know it's not an option for now; Nissan are working on a 3 cylinder, 1.5 litre turbo charged engine which will be perfect for project like this when (if) they come to market: http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/28/nissan-three-cy...
Edited by will_968 on Monday 11th July 13:08
Thanks for all the useful information, guys. Engine choice down here is a little different to the UK, I dont think I've ever seen a Civic Type R on the road let alone ina breakers yard so that's not likely to be an option. Bike engines aren't allowed in cars as they dont pass car emission tests 
We have to use an engine that was originally fitted to a standard road registered car, including OEM ECU. Many many cars here are V8 or V6 and its not unusual for a teenager's first car to be a Commodore V8 (think Vauxhall monaro). This means there are a lot of broken V8s around and a distinct lack of small lightweight engines with any power.
We have to use an engine that was originally fitted to a standard road registered car, including OEM ECU. Many many cars here are V8 or V6 and its not unusual for a teenager's first car to be a Commodore V8 (think Vauxhall monaro). This means there are a lot of broken V8s around and a distinct lack of small lightweight engines with any power.I live in Hong Kong and have raced a few times in Aus, so know your cars.
How about the 2.3 engine in the Mazda3 (turbo, or non-turbo)? It's an MZR engine and sold as a Duratec when fitted to Fords. I know you've a good supply of those down there. I looked at a hail damaged Mazda3 MPS from a Pickles salvage auction a while ago when looking to build an endurance car; went for about $1,500 AUD for a 4-5 year old car with very few miles on it. Stat write-offs are where you need to start.
How about the 2.3 engine in the Mazda3 (turbo, or non-turbo)? It's an MZR engine and sold as a Duratec when fitted to Fords. I know you've a good supply of those down there. I looked at a hail damaged Mazda3 MPS from a Pickles salvage auction a while ago when looking to build an endurance car; went for about $1,500 AUD for a 4-5 year old car with very few miles on it. Stat write-offs are where you need to start.
Edited by will_968 on Tuesday 12th July 16:57
will_968 said:
I live in Hong Kong and have raced a few times in Aus, so know your cars.
How about the 2.3 engine in the Mazda3 (turbo, or non-turbo)? It's an MZR engine and sold as a Duratec when fitted to Fords. I know you've a good supply of those down there. I looked at a hail damaged Mazda3 MPS from a Pickles salvage auction a while ago when looking to build an endurance car; went for about $1,500 AUD for a 4-5 year old car with very few miles on it. Stat write-offs are where you need to start.
Oooo... now that's a car I'd not thought of. There a few of them around and usually driven by idiots so there must be a few wrecks!How about the 2.3 engine in the Mazda3 (turbo, or non-turbo)? It's an MZR engine and sold as a Duratec when fitted to Fords. I know you've a good supply of those down there. I looked at a hail damaged Mazda3 MPS from a Pickles salvage auction a while ago when looking to build an endurance car; went for about $1,500 AUD for a 4-5 year old car with very few miles on it. Stat write-offs are where you need to start.
Edited by will_968 on Tuesday 12th July 16:57
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