My Lotus Dream....
Discussion
Hi All,
A very newbie here!
Brief history - Car nut who enjoys cars. I have had a lot of road legal track cars - but Now fancying something with some pedigree and a bit unusual. I have had Evos/imprezas/civics/clios/RS turbos in the past, most with high power or a bit special.
I am looking to make a switch from my Honda Integra DC2 type R (again road legal track car) to a Lotus Elise s1/s2... I would have roughly 15K to 20K budget.
Now, What kind of standard car within my budget would I likely to be able to aquire? I have seen some K20 s1/s2 for sale over the last few months, is there any difference having that engine in those two cars? I have had a ep3 type R so know the engine well.
Thanks for all your help, I am very new to the Lotus game and have a lot to learn.
Matt
A very newbie here!
Brief history - Car nut who enjoys cars. I have had a lot of road legal track cars - but Now fancying something with some pedigree and a bit unusual. I have had Evos/imprezas/civics/clios/RS turbos in the past, most with high power or a bit special.
I am looking to make a switch from my Honda Integra DC2 type R (again road legal track car) to a Lotus Elise s1/s2... I would have roughly 15K to 20K budget.
Now, What kind of standard car within my budget would I likely to be able to aquire? I have seen some K20 s1/s2 for sale over the last few months, is there any difference having that engine in those two cars? I have had a ep3 type R so know the engine well.
Thanks for all your help, I am very new to the Lotus game and have a lot to learn.
Matt
Your budget will get you any of the non-supercharged mainstream S1 and S2 Elises and probably any VX220. Factory supercharged cars start a bit over £20k.
Lotus tended to continuously evolve the Elise so it got gradually heavier, more refined and better built over the years. The S1 to S2 step was obviously the biggest visual change but wasn't that much of a technical one. The obvious differences were:
The S2 had a far simpler roof (which was further simplified when Lotus switch to the "short tail" roof a few years later).
The S2 had slightly lower sills so it's easier to get in and out.
The S2 had better dampers.
The S2 had narrower front wheels and tyres which make it less prone to snap over-steer but more under-steer prone in normal driving.
In practice bits are pretty interchangeable between the models so the only really fundamentally difference is the tub's lower sills. The swap from Rover to Toyota power part way through the S2's life was arguably a bigger change - as well as the engine swap the Toyota powered cars have a brake servo (allowing ABS) and a stronger rear subframe to deal with the heavier engine.
There's not really a "best" model, everyone has different preferences. My favourite is the S2 111S because it was the most developed of the K-series cars and I don't like the brakes on the Toyota models; plenty of people prefer S1s or Toyota cars though.
Most Honda (and other engine swap) cars are based on K-series models because they're lighter and cheaper. Most such cars will be pretty heavily modified in other ways to the point that the difference between an S1 and an S2 is pretty irrelevant (except for the sill height and roof design). In practice once you get to cars that heavily modified the biggest single factor in which to choose is styling preference.
Arguably the Honda K20 suits the car better than any of the OEM engines. The greater capacity adds a bit of torque compared to any of the naturally aspirated engines Lotus installed and obviously the top end of the K20's rev range is sublime. They can always be supercharged too, for those who crave more power. They tend to run about 220bhp naturally aspirated in the Elise and 300+ supercharged depending on setup.
Lotus tended to continuously evolve the Elise so it got gradually heavier, more refined and better built over the years. The S1 to S2 step was obviously the biggest visual change but wasn't that much of a technical one. The obvious differences were:
The S2 had a far simpler roof (which was further simplified when Lotus switch to the "short tail" roof a few years later).
The S2 had slightly lower sills so it's easier to get in and out.
The S2 had better dampers.
The S2 had narrower front wheels and tyres which make it less prone to snap over-steer but more under-steer prone in normal driving.
In practice bits are pretty interchangeable between the models so the only really fundamentally difference is the tub's lower sills. The swap from Rover to Toyota power part way through the S2's life was arguably a bigger change - as well as the engine swap the Toyota powered cars have a brake servo (allowing ABS) and a stronger rear subframe to deal with the heavier engine.
There's not really a "best" model, everyone has different preferences. My favourite is the S2 111S because it was the most developed of the K-series cars and I don't like the brakes on the Toyota models; plenty of people prefer S1s or Toyota cars though.
Most Honda (and other engine swap) cars are based on K-series models because they're lighter and cheaper. Most such cars will be pretty heavily modified in other ways to the point that the difference between an S1 and an S2 is pretty irrelevant (except for the sill height and roof design). In practice once you get to cars that heavily modified the biggest single factor in which to choose is styling preference.
Arguably the Honda K20 suits the car better than any of the OEM engines. The greater capacity adds a bit of torque compared to any of the naturally aspirated engines Lotus installed and obviously the top end of the K20's rev range is sublime. They can always be supercharged too, for those who crave more power. They tend to run about 220bhp naturally aspirated in the Elise and 300+ supercharged depending on setup.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 14th May 07:45
Thanks Kambits,
Seems to be a touch choice between the S1 and S2 - Do you know if there is any differnce with weight?
Also I have seen some Audi engined cars for sale to - Just to make things that much more difficult for me. I wish I had the budget to buy a standards SC Elise, but they seem out of my reach
Thanks for all your help, Lotus is a entirely new move for me and I dont know too much about them.
Matt
Seems to be a touch choice between the S1 and S2 - Do you know if there is any differnce with weight?
Also I have seen some Audi engined cars for sale to - Just to make things that much more difficult for me. I wish I had the budget to buy a standards SC Elise, but they seem out of my reach
Thanks for all your help, Lotus is a entirely new move for me and I dont know too much about them.
Matt
kambites said:
Your budget will get you any of the non-supercharged mainstream S1 and S2 Elises and probably any VX220. Factory supercharged cars start a bit over £20k.
Lotus tended to continuously evolve the Elise so it got gradually heavier, more refined and better built over the years. The S1 to S2 step was obviously the biggest visual change but wasn't that much of a technical one. The obvious differences were:
The S2 had a far simpler roof (which was further simplified when Lotus switch to the "short tail" roof a few years later).
The S2 had slightly lower sills so it's easier to get in and out.
The S2 had better dampers.
The S2 had narrower front wheels and tyres which make it less prone to snap over-steer but more under-steer prone in normal driving.
In practice bits are pretty interchangeable between the models so the only really fundamentally difference is the tub's lower sills. The swap from Rover to Toyota power part way through the S2's life was arguably a bigger change - as well as the engine swap the Toyota powered cars have a brake servo (allowing ABS) and a stronger rear subframe to deal with the heavier engine.
There's not really a "best" model, everyone has different preferences. My favourite is the S2 111S because it was the most developed of the K-series cars and I don't like the brakes on the Toyota models; plenty of people prefer S1s or Toyota cars though.
Most Honda (and other engine swap) cars are based on K-series models because they're lighter and cheaper. Most such cars will be pretty heavily modified in other ways to the point that the difference between an S1 and an S2 is pretty irrelevant (except for the sill height and roof design). In practice once you get to cars that heavily modified the biggest single factor in which to choose is styling preference.
Arguably the Honda K20 suits the car better than any of the OEM engines. The greater capacity adds a bit of torque compared to any of the naturally aspirated engines Lotus installed and obviously the top end of the K20's rev range is sublime. They can always be supercharged too, for those who crave more power. They tend to run about 220bhp naturally aspirated in the Elise and 300+ supercharged depending on setup.
Lotus tended to continuously evolve the Elise so it got gradually heavier, more refined and better built over the years. The S1 to S2 step was obviously the biggest visual change but wasn't that much of a technical one. The obvious differences were:
The S2 had a far simpler roof (which was further simplified when Lotus switch to the "short tail" roof a few years later).
The S2 had slightly lower sills so it's easier to get in and out.
The S2 had better dampers.
The S2 had narrower front wheels and tyres which make it less prone to snap over-steer but more under-steer prone in normal driving.
In practice bits are pretty interchangeable between the models so the only really fundamentally difference is the tub's lower sills. The swap from Rover to Toyota power part way through the S2's life was arguably a bigger change - as well as the engine swap the Toyota powered cars have a brake servo (allowing ABS) and a stronger rear subframe to deal with the heavier engine.
There's not really a "best" model, everyone has different preferences. My favourite is the S2 111S because it was the most developed of the K-series cars and I don't like the brakes on the Toyota models; plenty of people prefer S1s or Toyota cars though.
Most Honda (and other engine swap) cars are based on K-series models because they're lighter and cheaper. Most such cars will be pretty heavily modified in other ways to the point that the difference between an S1 and an S2 is pretty irrelevant (except for the sill height and roof design). In practice once you get to cars that heavily modified the biggest single factor in which to choose is styling preference.
Arguably the Honda K20 suits the car better than any of the OEM engines. The greater capacity adds a bit of torque compared to any of the naturally aspirated engines Lotus installed and obviously the top end of the K20's rev range is sublime. They can always be supercharged too, for those who crave more power. They tend to run about 220bhp naturally aspirated in the Elise and 300+ supercharged depending on setup.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 14th May 07:45
Hi Matt,
The official lotus kit can be bought for £3K + VAT.
http://www.seriouslylotus.com/track-race/lotus-spo...
It will probably end up costing more in the long run that getting an SC in the first place, but you may find the 111R is enough anyway.
It's a simple bolt-on job, and can always be removed if you want to sell separately when you want to change cars.
edited to add - one that's already done...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...
The official lotus kit can be bought for £3K + VAT.
http://www.seriouslylotus.com/track-race/lotus-spo...
It will probably end up costing more in the long run that getting an SC in the first place, but you may find the 111R is enough anyway.
It's a simple bolt-on job, and can always be removed if you want to sell separately when you want to change cars.
edited to add - one that's already done...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...
Edited by YellowCar on Thursday 19th May 13:56
Ecksloon said:
Seems to be a touch choice between the S1 and S2 - Do you know if there is any differnce with weight?
The Elise got constantly heavier over the years as Lotus "improved" it; a 2001 S1 is considerably heavier than a '97 S1 but the difference between a 2001 S1 and a 2001 S2 is negligible. The only significant single step in weight was Rover -> Toyota, which was about 60kg. Everything else was just a few kg here and there. My 2004 S2 111S is just about 800kg with a full tank of fuel.
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