What is the market like for £10k -£12k Elise's ?
Discussion
Hi, New here, normally can be found in the Italian forums.
I have been hankering after an Elise for many years, now in a position to buy one just for the summer.
I am looking at the £10k-£12k end of the market and just wondered if they sell quickly at these prices (assuming good history etc etc) or if they stick around ? i.e. people normally spend a bit more ?
Also are there psychological barriers to mileage ?
Sorry for all the daft questions, just making sure that if I buy for the next 12 months I can sell relatively easily ? ( have other cars and I am not sure how much it will get used)
Many thanks in advance
Phib
PS looking at non cat c or cat d cars with head gasket done either S1 or S2
I have been hankering after an Elise for many years, now in a position to buy one just for the summer.
I am looking at the £10k-£12k end of the market and just wondered if they sell quickly at these prices (assuming good history etc etc) or if they stick around ? i.e. people normally spend a bit more ?
Also are there psychological barriers to mileage ?
Sorry for all the daft questions, just making sure that if I buy for the next 12 months I can sell relatively easily ? ( have other cars and I am not sure how much it will get used)
Many thanks in advance
Phib
PS looking at non cat c or cat d cars with head gasket done either S1 or S2
I really wouldn't limit your search further by restricting yourself to cars that have had a HGF repair.
If anything, I have heard of several examples where the HG has failed swiftly after repair. In any event, its buttons to fix it. Hell, you could buy a recon K-series and drop it in for less than a grand.
If anything, I have heard of several examples where the HG has failed swiftly after repair. In any event, its buttons to fix it. Hell, you could buy a recon K-series and drop it in for less than a grand.
My old year 2000 S1 hadn't had the head gasket changed when I bought it, and 4 years later when I sold it it still hadn't had the head gasket done. Other than service the car every year, regardless of mileage, I did nothing to the car whilst I owned it and it sold for exctly the same as it's purchase cost, Cheapest car I've ever owned.
I bought a 2003 111S for that budget last year. Not much service history, though I'm fairly handy, so it doesn't bother me too much. Admittedly it might make resale trickier.
Lotus always going to be a limited market for private resale, so condition and history will be important. That might mean paying a bit more to have an easier resale later.
Lotus always going to be a limited market for private resale, so condition and history will be important. That might mean paying a bit more to have an easier resale later.
My thoughts would be:
Ignore the head gasket thing. Fixes are trivial in terms of cost and despite what many companies will tell you there's not really such a thing as "fixing" the problem. There are things you can do to improve metters but any 1.8 K-series will be suspect if its been abused so the fact it was "fixed" a couple of years ago tells you nothing.
Ignore mileage and "official" service history as long you're confident the car has been properly maintained - suspension dampers and bushes need replacing at about 50k miles; steering rack typically some time before 100k. The engine is very simple; very unstressed and very cheap to replace anyway. By on condition; I'd take a good home-serviced car over a full main dealer history.
Check the age of the tyres. A lot of Elises cover very few miles so tyres often need to be replaced on age rather than wear and a new set of tyres will cost you as much as a head gasket repair.
Ignore the head gasket thing. Fixes are trivial in terms of cost and despite what many companies will tell you there's not really such a thing as "fixing" the problem. There are things you can do to improve metters but any 1.8 K-series will be suspect if its been abused so the fact it was "fixed" a couple of years ago tells you nothing.
Ignore mileage and "official" service history as long you're confident the car has been properly maintained - suspension dampers and bushes need replacing at about 50k miles; steering rack typically some time before 100k. The engine is very simple; very unstressed and very cheap to replace anyway. By on condition; I'd take a good home-serviced car over a full main dealer history.
Check the age of the tyres. A lot of Elises cover very few miles so tyres often need to be replaced on age rather than wear and a new set of tyres will cost you as much as a head gasket repair.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 10th May 23:09
I have to agree with Altrezia, unless its a mothball car that you want to keep pristine as an investment.
If its for driving I would probably actually rather one with miles on it. In the past I bought a very low mile S1 and it cost an arm and a leg (comparative to Elise running costs) as everything had effectively seized from lack of use. Despite having done about 14k miles it needed about £5k of work in 12 months.
When I bought my S2 Exige a number of years later I went for one with relatively high miles - about 42k IIRC. All the faults were ironed out, all the consumables either already renewed or in good working order. During the 4 or so years I owned it nothing was needed apart from consumables and a CDL mechanism.
If its for driving I would probably actually rather one with miles on it. In the past I bought a very low mile S1 and it cost an arm and a leg (comparative to Elise running costs) as everything had effectively seized from lack of use. Despite having done about 14k miles it needed about £5k of work in 12 months.
When I bought my S2 Exige a number of years later I went for one with relatively high miles - about 42k IIRC. All the faults were ironed out, all the consumables either already renewed or in good working order. During the 4 or so years I owned it nothing was needed apart from consumables and a CDL mechanism.
I have found a couple now
S1 1998 full history ( needs a service ) for £10k done 52k
S2 111' s 2002 done 65k ( part history) just had a service for £12 k ( paint could do with some work)
Have driven both and would be happy with either
Can't work out if the 111's because of model would off set mileage and part history if I came to sell ?
I realise you shouldn't think about resale before you buy but this will only be kept for 12 months as one of my other cars will be back on the road ( having paint / don't use it in the winter) by then
Any views
Thanks
Phib
S1 1998 full history ( needs a service ) for £10k done 52k
S2 111' s 2002 done 65k ( part history) just had a service for £12 k ( paint could do with some work)
Have driven both and would be happy with either
Can't work out if the 111's because of model would off set mileage and part history if I came to sell ?
I realise you shouldn't think about resale before you buy but this will only be kept for 12 months as one of my other cars will be back on the road ( having paint / don't use it in the winter) by then
Any views
Thanks
Phib
65k miles isn't particularly high for a 2002 car; that's only 5k miles a year. However it's getting to that sort of point in its life where it'll almost certainly need new suspension bushes and/or dampers so if it's still on its originals, budget for that if you want it to drive properly.
Scruffy paint might be a problem coming to sell it (although it's hardly rare on Elises) but then if the paint was in decent condition it'd be worth 15k not 12k. I suppose it depends on how bad it is really.
Scruffy paint might be a problem coming to sell it (although it's hardly rare on Elises) but then if the paint was in decent condition it'd be worth 15k not 12k. I suppose it depends on how bad it is really.
kambites said:
65k miles isn't particularly high for a 2002 car; that's only 5k miles a year. However it's getting to that sort of point in its life where it'll almost certainly need new suspension bushes and/or dampers so if it's still on its originals, budget for that if you want it to drive properly.
Scruffy paint might be a problem coming to sell it (although it's hardly rare on Elises) but then if the paint was in decent condition it'd be worth 15k not 12k. I suppose it depends on how bad it is really.
Think it needs about £1k spending ( front and rear clams doing) and then your probably right re the suspension, so another 1k on that I guess. Scruffy paint might be a problem coming to sell it (although it's hardly rare on Elises) but then if the paint was in decent condition it'd be worth 15k not 12k. I suppose it depends on how bad it is really.
Allowing another 1k in depreciation then I guess I would roughly be evenish after a year which is cool
Thanks
Phib
You're not going to lose a grand in a year in depreciation. I paid 16k for my S2 111S eight years ago and it's worth about 15k now. In anything, prices have been rising very slightly recently.
£1k for a suspension refresh might be optimistic though. It's not far off that in parts alone if you want all the consumables (bushes, ball joints, drop-links, track rod ends, springs, dampers) replaced. The labour isn't insignificant, especially if you want the wishbones stripped and painted.
If you're going to spend the money anyway, it would be a lot easier to just buy a decently sorted car for ~15k in the first place.
Are you planning to buy from the UK or are you looking at the very limited supply of cars around you?
£1k for a suspension refresh might be optimistic though. It's not far off that in parts alone if you want all the consumables (bushes, ball joints, drop-links, track rod ends, springs, dampers) replaced. The labour isn't insignificant, especially if you want the wishbones stripped and painted.
If you're going to spend the money anyway, it would be a lot easier to just buy a decently sorted car for ~15k in the first place.
Are you planning to buy from the UK or are you looking at the very limited supply of cars around you?
Edited by kambites on Thursday 12th May 09:06
kambites said:
You're not going to lose a grand in a year in depreciation. I paid 16k for my S2 111S eight years ago and it's worth about 15k now. In anything, prices have been rising very slightly recently.
I was thinking 1k as it will probably be c. 70 /72k miles when I sell it Phib
Don't look at miles. These cars need to be used, and plenty are well over 100k and going well. Afew are over 200k, although they're a bit "Trigger's Broom" by now. If it's been parked up and not driven for a few years recently, it'll have lower mileage, but more issues, so anything you'd make back on resale will be lost getting it up to scratch.
HGF is not an issue. Forget about it. It could either never need doing, have been done and not need doing again, have been done and fail again immediately anyway, or not have been done and be about to pop. You'll drive yourself mad worrying about it, when the reality is there is NO way to know if you'll have to do it or when, (unless it's literally happening now!) and it's a very easy and not an expensive job.
Take a good look underneath and see if the wishbone mounts are solid, and whether they look like they might need a refresh. Check the obvious cambelt changes. Then check when all the consumables were last done... ball joints, disks, pads, track rod ends, wheel bearings. If you can see a good history of that sort of thing being done, you're probably ok with the rest of the car. If you can't see receipts, and those all need doing at once, you could add £1k to your first service very quickly. After that, it's colour and condition, which is personal preference.
A 111s is the one to have, if you can find one.
Definitely get onto SELOC (Some Enthusiasts, Lots of C*cks!) and the other forums and ask around and see who's selling what, although most will be listed on PH. You want an enthusiast-owned car. I've seen a few that have been in the hands of people outside the "scene" which have been cheap, but turned out to be in shocking state. Find an enthusiasts car and it's unlikely to be on the wrong tyres, original leaky suspension, poor geo settings, cheap disks and pads, etc, and all the niggles will be sorted.
Next up, who's going to service it for you? Again, get on the forums and ask who your local indy is. They don't tend to advertise as Elise specialists, but they need to be competent in working on one. You don't want to end up a main dealer for every wheel bearing, as Elises need fairly regular attention for one thing or another. At the age/budget you've got, pretty much throw the service schedule out the window and accept it's going to visit the indy for something or other twice a year and you can get the fluids done while its there. I mean in contrast to a less hand-made car which you sort of book it in every 12 months and forget about it.
Have a good look over the EliseParts website to see the variety of parts, prices, and upgrades available, and it'll help you spot any which have been done on potential purchases.
HGF is not an issue. Forget about it. It could either never need doing, have been done and not need doing again, have been done and fail again immediately anyway, or not have been done and be about to pop. You'll drive yourself mad worrying about it, when the reality is there is NO way to know if you'll have to do it or when, (unless it's literally happening now!) and it's a very easy and not an expensive job.
Take a good look underneath and see if the wishbone mounts are solid, and whether they look like they might need a refresh. Check the obvious cambelt changes. Then check when all the consumables were last done... ball joints, disks, pads, track rod ends, wheel bearings. If you can see a good history of that sort of thing being done, you're probably ok with the rest of the car. If you can't see receipts, and those all need doing at once, you could add £1k to your first service very quickly. After that, it's colour and condition, which is personal preference.
A 111s is the one to have, if you can find one.
Definitely get onto SELOC (Some Enthusiasts, Lots of C*cks!) and the other forums and ask around and see who's selling what, although most will be listed on PH. You want an enthusiast-owned car. I've seen a few that have been in the hands of people outside the "scene" which have been cheap, but turned out to be in shocking state. Find an enthusiasts car and it's unlikely to be on the wrong tyres, original leaky suspension, poor geo settings, cheap disks and pads, etc, and all the niggles will be sorted.
Next up, who's going to service it for you? Again, get on the forums and ask who your local indy is. They don't tend to advertise as Elise specialists, but they need to be competent in working on one. You don't want to end up a main dealer for every wheel bearing, as Elises need fairly regular attention for one thing or another. At the age/budget you've got, pretty much throw the service schedule out the window and accept it's going to visit the indy for something or other twice a year and you can get the fluids done while its there. I mean in contrast to a less hand-made car which you sort of book it in every 12 months and forget about it.
Have a good look over the EliseParts website to see the variety of parts, prices, and upgrades available, and it'll help you spot any which have been done on potential purchases.
Edited by TartanPaint on Thursday 12th May 09:17
I can't really help you as although I'm going to be selling my S1 it's going to be after Le Mans. However I can say that a suspension refresh is over a grand, and that paint on fibreglass can be a lot more expensive than on steel if it's anything more than superficial work. Cracking etc on an S1 is expensive to repair properly. The flip side is that it's entirely cosmetic so perfectly safe to ignore if you're not bothered by it!
Compared to other cars I'd say major mechanical jobs on an Elise are cheaper than you'd expect due to it's humble underpinnings while minor jobs are lot harder/more expensive than you'd think due to the sheer hassle of obtaining and fitting certain bits.
You won't lose money though. Mine is a good driver but not pretty, but it still seems to have gone UP £1-2K in 3 years and 15k miles.
Compared to other cars I'd say major mechanical jobs on an Elise are cheaper than you'd expect due to it's humble underpinnings while minor jobs are lot harder/more expensive than you'd think due to the sheer hassle of obtaining and fitting certain bits.
You won't lose money though. Mine is a good driver but not pretty, but it still seems to have gone UP £1-2K in 3 years and 15k miles.
Edited by giveitfish on Thursday 12th May 09:35
phib said:
kambites said:
You're not going to lose a grand in a year in depreciation. I paid 16k for my S2 111S eight years ago and it's worth about 15k now. In anything, prices have been rising very slightly recently.
I was thinking 1k as it will probably be c. 70 /72k miles when I sell it Phib
In terms of cost, I've just done a full suspension rebuild on mine and it cost me around £1k in parts and took me two weekends and a few evenings (although some of that was waiting for paint to dry. I guess without the cleaning and rust-proofing and with prior experience you'd be looking at 10-15 hours of labour at a specialist so probably around £2k all in if you pay someone to do it for you.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 12th May 09:51
It probably doesn't matter, they're more similar than different if that makes sense.
I don't think you'll lose any money on either but S1 values appears to be rising where S2 are fairly flat. The S2 is slightly more usable if you intend to drive it much. Buy whichever you prefer, really.
I don't think you'll lose any money on either but S1 values appears to be rising where S2 are fairly flat. The S2 is slightly more usable if you intend to drive it much. Buy whichever you prefer, really.
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