Is a bog standard S1 enough for the road?

[Fabio81]

As the title says, I'm wondering if a bog standard Elise S1 is powerful enough for road use only, or if in a short time I will be wanting more power.
What would you say?
Sorry if this topic has been debated other times in the past.

[Lefty]

Yes it is. Absolutely. 100%. You can cover ground very quickly because they flow very nicely, you can carry huge corner speed.

The lack of grunt is only really a problem for higher-speed overtakes IMHO. But more power along with much better reliability is always tempting...and you can get a basic Honda k20 conversion for £7k these days. Power AND reliability.

[Tickle]

This is very subjective. IMHO yes, they are fine, keeping momentum is the fun part.

[Lefty]

Buy a £10k Elise, £7k on a k20 conversion and you've got a car that will be worth £15k+ for ever. It may even appreciate.

[Thorburn]

Depends what you're used to - living in the countryside I rarely find day to day even with a 100bhp Fiesta I'm holding anything up. I'm probably not much quicker point to point in the Elise purely because you can't see far enough down the road to carry much more speed. I don't really find big power stuff that interesting for road use though.

As you increase the power on them the big gains are really over 60mph, so unless you want to be traveling near triple digits all the time they feel reasonably quick and you can enjoy feeling like you are using car rather than coasting along at a fraction its capability. Also a good option rather than chasing more power is to spend a few hundred quid and swap a close ratio gearbox (B4BP or C4BP rather than the standard C6BP) on to it.

Had my S1 now for 8 years and the only time I feel like it needs more power is when I haven't used it in a while and start browsing the DVA Power website.

[MrOrange]

Yes, and no. Getting caught in a high gear and being left for dead in a straight line by small turbo diesel shopping things soon gets dull. But the corners are sublime. 100 lbs foot torque and sub 100 mph dickery is a lovely, and rare, mix these days. Cheap to run, as well.

And, it has the greatest differential performance upgrade options of any car. So you build a 400bhp/tonne giant slayer that, on slicks, will worry 200k GT3 race cars.

I loved mine (Sport 160).

[Thorburn]

MrOrange said:

Yes, and no. Getting caught in a high gear and being left for dead in a straight line by small turbo diesel shopping things soon gets dull. But the corners are sublime. 100 lbs foot torque and sub 100 mph dickery is a lovely, and rare, mix these days. Cheap to run, as well.

...

I loved mine (Sport 160).

The Sport 160 really is the worst for that - combination of terrible standard engine mapping and lumpy cams means it really doesn't give you much below 4500rpm or so, and the fact it came with the long ratio box just exacerbates it. A friend has one and when we took them out and keeping the revs down (sub-4000rpm) whilst the engine got up to temperature my standard S1 was quicker. Different story now he has a properly ported head on it, remapped ECU and B4BP box though.

Also if you're caught in a high gear you need to give yourself a slap and think about what you've done.

Edited by Thorburn on Monday 11th April 22:18

[kambites]

MrOrange said:

Yes, and no. Getting caught in a high gear and being left for dead in a straight line by small turbo diesel shopping things soon gets dull.

In 9 years of driving my Elise every day, I can happily say I've never attempted to race a "small turbo diesel shopping thing"; especially not in the wrong gear.

[Dalto123]

A bog standard 118bhp Elise will get you along absolutely fine

[TartanPaint]

Thorburn said:

MrOrange said:

Yes, and no. Getting caught in a high gear and being left for dead in a straight line by small turbo diesel shopping things soon gets dull. But the corners are sublime. 100 lbs foot torque and sub 100 mph dickery is a lovely, and rare, mix these days. Cheap to run, as well.

...

I loved mine (Sport 160).

The Sport 160 really is the worst for that - combination of terrible standard engine mapping and lumpy cams means it really doesn't give you much below 4500rpm or so, and the fact it came with the long ratio box just exacerbates it. A friend has one and when we took them out and keeping the revs down (sub-4000rpm) whilst the engine got up to temperature my standard S1 was quicker. Different story now he has a properly ported head on it, remapped ECU and B4BP box though.

Also if you're caught in a high gear you need to give yourself a slap and think about what you've done.

Edited by Thorburn on Monday 11th April 22:18

You don't buy a Sport 160 with your head. A 111s is a far better car. But the only S1 I'd have another of is the Sport 160.

[fridaypassion]

The "boggo" versions of most modern Lotus cars are the best IMO. I have a 2.2 VX220, really enjoy the 134 BHP Toyota Elises when we get them in, recently sold my Elise that although later having a VVC engine started out as a 122BHP tourer.

[Fabio81]

Thanks everyone! I couldn't imagine I would get so many replies!
In any case i'm not interested in K20 swaps or similar, I wouldn't go down the road of heavy modifications. I'm more interested in the endless debate standard 118 bhp vs VVC engine, for road use only. I'm not interested in doing track days, I'd only use the car in the countryside on sunny sunday afternoons.

[Equus]

Lefty said:

You can cover ground very quickly because they flow very nicely, you can carry huge corner speed.

This.

If you're capable of driving them properly, they're plenty quick enough.

I once averaged 103mph, doorstep-to-doorstep, on a 100 mile journey on a mixture of A-roads, B-roads and motorways in an almost-boggo Elise S1 (one that was flat-out at 127mph!). I can't imagine many other cars - even with vastly more power - that I'd have been able to do that in.

[Mr_C]

Where are these £7000 Honda conversions...?

[silber]

I have a 111s with some suspension and brake mods. Totally agree that it's quick enough to be plenty of fun and make very brisk progress on any given road, but from time to time it would be handy to have some more grunt to get by cars that are quick in a straight line but are a hold up when the road gets windy. It kinda sucks when someone in a 3 litre tdi audi decides to drag race when you want to get by on a dual carriageway and then you end up stuck behind his barge when the road narrows, when you would rather be enjoying your car with whatever limited time you may have in it that day. It's the late braking and speed through corners that really make these cars that much quicker than fast 'every day' cars, and also when you'll have the most fun, so hence getting a clear road ahead of you is helpful.

I would say that the torque of the VVC engine is good in the mid-range though, which can make overtaking more opportunistic from a bit below 4,000rpm rather than need to drop a gear.

Whatever the case, you'll have massive fun in an Elise and that's what counts. A sports exhaust will make it more playful for the ears too. Nothing offers the same mix of pure driving engagement with acceptable usability.

[TartanPaint]

Mr_C said:

Where are these £7000 Honda conversions...?

If you do the work yourself, a Stark kit is £5k and donor bits are £1,000-£1,250, so £7k is possible. £10k including labour and a few optional things is realistic. Obviously taking the opportunity to refresh other bits while the car is apart will add up.

Edited by TartanPaint on Monday 2nd May 14:50

[Lefty]

Engine and box £1000. Stark kit is £3000+vat.

With oil, coolant, service parts, new clutch etc it's do-able for 7k. An experienced mechanic can do it in 40h.

[Nearlyretired]

I have owned a S2 Elise 120 bhp
A S2 Exige. 190. bhp
An S1 Exige. 300 bhp s/c Honda

By far the most fun on the road. -
my S2 with 120bhp!
Perfect blend of power/ grip
The Honda has too much grip for the road and in the wet you have to think about
the road surface and and your right foot.
Great fun though on trackdays! 😁