Help me get my Dad into an Elise
Discussion
Not in the literal sense, he can physically get into a car by himself!
My dad has been a lifelong fan of Lotus cars and years ago he always wanted an Esprit V8. Nowadays all three of us kids have moved out and he could finally justify such an investment, but he's a big procrastinator! And keeps fabricating reasons to put it off. Esprit's are a bit long in the tooth and there's some real uncertainty about reliability, plus prices fluctuate quite a bit on the market for what is quite a rare car. An S2 Elise makes much more sense.
He's 50 years old and if he puts it off much longer he'll be too old to actually enjoy it.
I plan to go with him to Castle Lotus sometime over the coming weeks and I'm hoping to pick their brains about general Elise ownership, things to avoid and cars to search out. Obviously there will be a separate agenda on their part seeing as they have a good level of used cars, so it's possible that they might be a little biased - hence asking on here.
You'll notice I wrote investment rather than expense above, and this is because I believe that if you looked after one very well you may not sacrifice any / vast sums of depreciation - is this a realistic expectation?
I note there are different engines, namely K-series and Toyota. I had the 2ZZ in a Celica but I understand the cam profile / mapping is slightly different in an Elise? Is there a specific engine to go for, or is that too much of an ambiguous question?
I would assume the Toyota engine to be the more reliable, potentially cheaper to maintain also?
Would it be wise to broaden the search (and the budget) to consider the various Ltd edition models, as being less likely to depreciate as much? Reason for this is both the red and white (anniversary?) and JPS editions are particularly appealing but command a premium.
Naturally I'm keen to encourage so that I can have a go!
I'd be very grateful for any similar experiences (even just of the situation, not necessarily with an Elise) and links to buyers guides - I'm working my way through Google results as we speak!
Thanks in advance
My dad has been a lifelong fan of Lotus cars and years ago he always wanted an Esprit V8. Nowadays all three of us kids have moved out and he could finally justify such an investment, but he's a big procrastinator! And keeps fabricating reasons to put it off. Esprit's are a bit long in the tooth and there's some real uncertainty about reliability, plus prices fluctuate quite a bit on the market for what is quite a rare car. An S2 Elise makes much more sense.
He's 50 years old and if he puts it off much longer he'll be too old to actually enjoy it.
I plan to go with him to Castle Lotus sometime over the coming weeks and I'm hoping to pick their brains about general Elise ownership, things to avoid and cars to search out. Obviously there will be a separate agenda on their part seeing as they have a good level of used cars, so it's possible that they might be a little biased - hence asking on here.
You'll notice I wrote investment rather than expense above, and this is because I believe that if you looked after one very well you may not sacrifice any / vast sums of depreciation - is this a realistic expectation?
I note there are different engines, namely K-series and Toyota. I had the 2ZZ in a Celica but I understand the cam profile / mapping is slightly different in an Elise? Is there a specific engine to go for, or is that too much of an ambiguous question?
I would assume the Toyota engine to be the more reliable, potentially cheaper to maintain also?
Would it be wise to broaden the search (and the budget) to consider the various Ltd edition models, as being less likely to depreciate as much? Reason for this is both the red and white (anniversary?) and JPS editions are particularly appealing but command a premium.
Naturally I'm keen to encourage so that I can have a go!
I'd be very grateful for any similar experiences (even just of the situation, not necessarily with an Elise) and links to buyers guides - I'm working my way through Google results as we speak!
Thanks in advance
C.A.R. said:
You'll notice I wrote investment rather than expense above, and this is because I believe that if you looked after one very well you may not sacrifice any / vast sums of depreciation - is this a realistic expectation?
To be honest almost all cars cost money whether in depreciation or maintenance. The only way to minimise costs is to buy a cheap, reliable car. IMO an Elise will never be run for Fiesta money.As with all cars, it's better to pay more for a good one than to buy a cheap one and face the maintenance bills.
Question: Once dad has got his Elise, what's he going to use it for? Will it replace another car or be an addition to the garage? The reason I ask is that "spare" cars tend not to get used so end up looking like an expensive toy. In contrast, sportscars in day-to-day use don't cost much more than a hatchback.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Question: Once dad has got his Elise, what's he going to use it for? Will it replace another car or be an addition to the garage? The reason I ask is that "spare" cars tend not to get used so end up looking like an expensive toy. In contrast, sportscars in day-to-day use don't cost much more than a hatchback.
Yep, that's why I suggested an Evora, especially as he was considering a V8 Esprit. Both larger cars are more suited to everyday tasks than the little Elise - possibly moreso for someone in their fifties who most likely has a wife of a similar age.Elises cost peanuts to run so don't worry about that. And all hold their value so again, no worries there. Just buy the newest you can for the money. I had the Toyota engined one and didn't like it, its like having big turbo lag, so aim for a supercharged one if you can afford it. And if you are there, try an Evora too.
Impasse said:
Yep, that's why I suggested an Evora, especially as he was considering a V8 Esprit. Both larger cars are more suited to everyday tasks than the little Elise - possibly moreso for someone in their fifties who most likely has a wife of a similar age.
is this for a daily or fun?i'm older than his dad but i'll only move into an Evora when i get old....
Thanks folks - I have been reading the buying guide and probably should have posted this in the Lotus sub-forum, so apologies for that...
With regards to the use of the car, it will be used as a second car (toy) and garaged Mon-Thursday, whilst making a fun Friday commuter car during the summer (hence wanting the optional soft top - although I understand most have this anyway).
There's a sense that the 122bhp model might feel underpowered, even as a toy, as it's unlikely (but not beyond the realms of possibility) that it would be used as a track car. I know this goes against the ethics of an Elise and I feel we really need to get him to test one to see what it's really like, as numbers on paper often mean little (especially given the weight).
As for budget, I suppose that's a bit of an open-ended question. The models we've looked at online vary from £12-18k, so anywhere in that region for the 'right' car I suppose. We haven't found a Type 72 for sale yet or a decent 'guide' to the other limited editions, so I suppose their price will be inflated due to their rarity.
The running costs will be accepted as an annual cost, most sources suggest £1000-1500pa put aside for maintenance etc, whilst insurance is likely to be the biggest upfront cost (although not horrific considering usage and dads' age).
The general consensus is that the Evora is massively more expensive, but I'm happy to be proved wrong. It's also less common, so it's not like there are many / any about that we can look at!
What is the red and white model called? I thought the Type 72 was the black & gold, not sure on this one?
I have first-hand experience of the Celica engine (2ZZ 190) and would try to steer him in that direction because the reviews sound like it wouldn't be lacking in the outright pace department, whilst it's also a chain-driven engine which is relatively bomb-proof (excuse the hateful expression!). The only model I think that has this is the 111R though, later referred to as just the 'R'. There's a lot of ambiguity on adverts too, I clicked on a nice looking example which just said '1.8' with 122bhp, but the pictures clearly showed the Toyota engine.
I'm thinking I'll get him down to Castle Lotus in Stansted at the weekend and hopefully get his bum in a seat and get a real taste for the ownership possibility.
Thanks for the help so far folks!
With regards to the use of the car, it will be used as a second car (toy) and garaged Mon-Thursday, whilst making a fun Friday commuter car during the summer (hence wanting the optional soft top - although I understand most have this anyway).
There's a sense that the 122bhp model might feel underpowered, even as a toy, as it's unlikely (but not beyond the realms of possibility) that it would be used as a track car. I know this goes against the ethics of an Elise and I feel we really need to get him to test one to see what it's really like, as numbers on paper often mean little (especially given the weight).
As for budget, I suppose that's a bit of an open-ended question. The models we've looked at online vary from £12-18k, so anywhere in that region for the 'right' car I suppose. We haven't found a Type 72 for sale yet or a decent 'guide' to the other limited editions, so I suppose their price will be inflated due to their rarity.
The running costs will be accepted as an annual cost, most sources suggest £1000-1500pa put aside for maintenance etc, whilst insurance is likely to be the biggest upfront cost (although not horrific considering usage and dads' age).
The general consensus is that the Evora is massively more expensive, but I'm happy to be proved wrong. It's also less common, so it's not like there are many / any about that we can look at!
What is the red and white model called? I thought the Type 72 was the black & gold, not sure on this one?
I have first-hand experience of the Celica engine (2ZZ 190) and would try to steer him in that direction because the reviews sound like it wouldn't be lacking in the outright pace department, whilst it's also a chain-driven engine which is relatively bomb-proof (excuse the hateful expression!). The only model I think that has this is the 111R though, later referred to as just the 'R'. There's a lot of ambiguity on adverts too, I clicked on a nice looking example which just said '1.8' with 122bhp, but the pictures clearly showed the Toyota engine.
I'm thinking I'll get him down to Castle Lotus in Stansted at the weekend and hopefully get his bum in a seat and get a real taste for the ownership possibility.
Thanks for the help so far folks!
The 111R (2ZZ) and 111S (K-series VVC) are not hugely different in terms of performance. The Toyota is an extra 30bhp but also an extra 70kg or so meaning the difference in pace isn't as great as you'd expect from the power figures alone. The K-series has a very linear engine where the Toyota as the "kick" as the second-cam comes in. Arguably the biggest difference in how they drive is the brakes. The Toyota has a servo assisted ABS setup, the K-series is unassisted. Again neither system is "better" but personally I greatly prefer the unassisted brakes.
The special editions are mostly just paint work and interior trim so aren't really worth any more than normal cars.
The special editions are mostly just paint work and interior trim so aren't really worth any more than normal cars.
Excellent, just read your little write-up and the costs you have recorded. So excluding fuel, the estimate for £1-1.5k per annum for running costs is probably quite conservative too.
Is the 70kg defecit just engine weight, or do 2zz-equipped Elise's typically have a/c too?
I think A/C would be favourable, but not essential. Especially if it came down to cost.
I notice yours is a Type 25 - is that the 135bhp vvt engine? I've read that the 160 k-series is very un-suited for road use, as is the earlier 190 Sport which is more of a track car.
Lots of reading to do!
Is the 70kg defecit just engine weight, or do 2zz-equipped Elise's typically have a/c too?
I think A/C would be favourable, but not essential. Especially if it came down to cost.
I notice yours is a Type 25 - is that the 135bhp vvt engine? I've read that the 160 k-series is very un-suited for road use, as is the earlier 190 Sport which is more of a track car.
Lots of reading to do!
AC was an option on both. Worth having for demisting the cabin if he doesn't have a garage, a bit of a waste of time (and weight) if he does, IMO.
The difference in weight is a combination of the engine itself, the stronger rear-subframe required to hold it, a bigger radiator and higher coolant capacity and a few minor things like the ABS system.
Mine is a 111S which is a 160bhp K-series but not the one you're thinking of. The Sport-160 (and sport-190) had highly tuned non-variable valve timing versions (called "VHPD") which could be a bit temperamental in traffic (although the 160 is generally OK); the 111S has a VVC engine is which arguably the most flexible engine the Elise was ever fitted with until the supercharged Toyota engine.
The difference in weight is a combination of the engine itself, the stronger rear-subframe required to hold it, a bigger radiator and higher coolant capacity and a few minor things like the ABS system.
Mine is a 111S which is a 160bhp K-series but not the one you're thinking of. The Sport-160 (and sport-190) had highly tuned non-variable valve timing versions (called "VHPD") which could be a bit temperamental in traffic (although the 160 is generally OK); the 111S has a VVC engine is which arguably the most flexible engine the Elise was ever fitted with until the supercharged Toyota engine.
Edited by kambites on Monday 12th October 15:10
If you're looking for value, your'e already making the wrong moves. Check out Will B or Johnnyboy for good cars at reasonable prices if you want to buy with a guarantee. If you're feeling confident there are also some very nice cars to be had privately. Check SELOC. Far more feedback and info.
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