Elise S1: good standard vs slightly neglected 111S

[Fabio81]

Hello everyone and greetings from Italy (I hope you can excuse my english). I’m in the process of buying an S1 Elise and i’m torn between two models
1. A standard early 1999 Elise with the minimal upgrades i desire and/or would have made myself: induction, exhaust and throttle body. General condition of the car seems good.
2. A late 1999 completely unmodified 111S (only the cat has been removed to achieve a more satisfying noise). From the documentation (insurance, etc.) i assume the car has been stopped for about 3 years, plus it has some issues (i hope minor issues): driver’s side window not rolling down, a cut in the rear diffuser (i think it’s due to the cat being removed), and some suspect gunk in the cooling water tank (but it seems more like some kind of deposit than the HGF mayonnaise thing, see attached image anyways).
So all things seem to point towards the standard version. My question is will I outgrow the standard version and want more power at a certain point? My use will be weekend/summer car on the road only (no track use). I have no previous experience with rear wheel drive. Price is more or less the same for the two cars.
What’s your point of view? Thank you!

[Ive]

I'd go for the 111s. It has the short gearbox and a MUCH wider power band. The VVC is a joy to drive. It pulls all the way to the limiter a tad past 7000 rpm.
They are also more valuable.
Keep €1000 for repairs in reserve, e.g. a head gasket swap, cam belt change etc.
it was not common for some aftermarket Cat converters to touch the diffusor and rattle a cut in it.
Add some 1cm spacers to the diffusor. This increases space and helps to get rid of the heat of the muffler and cat.
Add a 200cell sports cat converter.
Ditch the misfire detection kit.
The window can be fixed DIY, bout you need to take the door partly apart. No big deal. almost anything can be fixed by yourself.

if you ad a decent exhaust manifold and induction, the VVC yields 150 to 155HP.

Join the forum on SELOC.org. They'll answer all questions you'll ever have. Almost anything has been covered there in pictures and text.

Edited by Ive on Sunday 4th October 18:07

[kambites]

I'd get an expert (or just a decent mechanic) to look over the 111S. They don't generally suffer too badly from lack of use (there's not much to go wrong) but you never know.

The head gasket probably isn't the end of the world even if it has gone. You'll be wanting to replace the cam-belts if it's been sitting for that long and doing the head gasket at the same time is only a few hours of extra labour and a few quid for the parts. If it's any good, the 111S is a considerably more desirable car both in terms of how it drives (the VVC is a lovely strong, linear feeling engine) and its value when you come to sell it.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 4th October 19:13

[chiark]

Have a look at the other bits. All things being equal, I'd be more tempted by the 111s I reckon, however if one is running on anything apart from konis then that would add to its desirability. Check state of the wishbones - especially their mounting points, bushes, wheel bearings, etc. None are big jobs, but I've had my bog standard "cheap" Elise a year and in that year have:
- Changed from konis to bilsteins (second hand)
- refurbed completely the rear suspension (new bushes, new bearings, new ball joints, new discs and pads, wishbones blasted and re-passivated)
- new uprated toe links. (spitfire. Failure of these is pretty catastrophic and seems to be not too rare)
- changed gear linkage
- oh, and far too many small little bits to remember.

I don't want to add up the cost, even though I've done all the work myself with help and advice.

Point is to check the suspension components out and work out whether either one is going to land you with an urgent repair. My toe links needed doing, which led to the rest as I didn't want to take it all apart twice... This winter it'll be the front suspension getting rebuilt and refurbed.

Power-wise, the standard is great but I'm already hankering for a little more. DVA power or sabre heads I reckon...

[Fabio81]

Thanks everyone for the replies!
I think I should be more detailed about the 2 cars condition:

Standard:
-induction
-sport exhaust
-improved throttle body
-work has been done recently on suspensions (bushes)
-braided brake pipes

111s
-cut diffuser
-catalyzer missing
-window won't roll down
-standard induction and exhaust
-car alarm malfunctioning (seems difficult to deactivate)
-still on original Pirellis from 1999
-gunk in header tank
-documentation not ok (currently the car cannot be legally taken on the road to test it, owner says we will road test it on a sunday afternoon when no one's around, he lives in a quiet area)

Both cars still run on Konis and never had the cam belt replaced. 111s has lower mileage (33000 vs 51000).

So with the standard one I'll have an almost road-ready car with all my desired tuning already done. With the 111s I'll have to spend some money as soon as I buy it to get it to acceptable condition (tyres, window winder, car alarm, header tank thing).

What would you do? Thank you very much

[lj04]

Walk away from both. If still on original cam belts yet alone tyres what else has been neglected. Even a bad Elise can feel great to drive. Look up Will B on select he will sort you a good car.

[chiark]

If it's an S1, it's at least 15 years old. The cam belt must have been done sometime in 15 years; have a check through the detailed service history.

Must admit I'd be tempted to walk away from both... If something doesn't feel right, walk away. Doing that (walking away) from a 996 targa saved me from a 10 grand bill for a rebuild...

(Saying that, I bought my elise knowing it needed a little TLC, and it's been great fun to drive and work on)

[g7jhp]

What's your budget?

[Fabio81]

My budget is 20000€. I could even spend more, but my concern is to make a good choice! Whilst I would prefer the 111S (mainly for the VVC motor and color), with the standard car I would have an almost road ready car, while the 111S needs some work to be done. The standard car is for sale at 20000€ and the 111S at 21000€, I think the price can be further dropped a bit. Anyways, considering the condition of the cars I think the 111S should be actually priced a little less than the standard one.