98 s1 elise wieght increase? Differences behind the wheel?

[Fantuzzi]

I'm looking to get a s1 elise, I've spent a lot of time researching the various specs and editions, and one thing that never seems to be discussed is the 98 models weight increase to 755kg from 713-23( found here http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Elise_weight).

My main question however is there any noticeable different in the driving aspect of the later model? Is the general rule 'the earlier the better' or do some of the later s1 models have any advantages on the driving front?

[chucklebutty]

As I recall - I have a March 98 model - the main differences introduced from April were the change to steel brakes (increasing unsprung mass) and revisions to the boot. A GRP boot lid replaced ally (this may be incorrect), and a box structure replacing the vinyl bag. And thicker seats.

So a little more rearward weight and at each wheel and better seats to compensate. There's probably a fuller description SELOC, Scuffers will definitely know.

[thegreenhell]

I wouldn't put too much faith in the official weight figures. The car didn't suddenly gain 40 kg overnight. Only a very lightly-specced early car would hit the original quoted weight, and thereafter it became slightly heavier over time as the spec evolved, and they maybe became more realistic about how they measured it.

The change from MMC to iron discs added about 2kg per corner, iirc. The change in the boot box added a couple more. The later change from alloy to steel rear uprights a couple more again. The thicker seats were only on the 111S model, I think, but that was only a bit of extra foam in the standard seat shell anyway.

Unless you're racing the car I think most people would be hard pressed to notice a difference in how they drive, certainly on the road, and most of the alleged weight increases can easily be offest by fitting a lighter sports exhaust or lighter wheels, or stripping out the radio and speakers that you can't hear when you're moving anyway. You'll get a better idea of real-world weights by looking at the members' car weights on that SELOC page you linked.

[Thorburn]

As above - the 'book' weights are little optimistic at times.

Mine is listed on that TechWiki page and is a relatively early car (built late 1997) and came in at 755kg last time I had it weighed. Originally it would have had MMC brakes (replaced with steel before I bought the car), the basic seats (replaced with Pro-bax Sports seats for comfort and because I wanted to fit harnesses) and aluminium rear uprights (replaced with steel as some idiot didn't Duralac the steel bolts going in to the aluminium uprights and trashed them ) so I've added some weight to it, but I can't see it being at the 40kg over the book weight for a 1997 brochure.

[thegreenhell]

Mine was a 2000 car, so in theory the heaviest of the lot. With a change to MMC discs, lightweight wheels and lightweight decat exhaust, removal of stereo and speakers, but with added Probax Exige seats, harness bar and 2 x harnesses and full carpet set, it measured 715kg on the cornerweight scales with 10 litres of fuel on board.

[banx22]

Mines a S1 111s (99) and has the following differences to a standard S1

Different wheels
Different engine (111s has VVC)
Different Gearbox (close ratio)
More padded seats
Carbon affect dash inserts
Headlight covers
Different front clam (to accommodate the headlight covers)
Cookie cutter front grill
Rear wheel spats
Rear spoiler

I think thats it

[Fantuzzi]

Thanks for all the replies!

Ive been trawling through the model changes over the last few months, so its great to hear that they make no or little difference to the driving!

With regard to specs on the standard 118, I assumed the only real weight adding issues would be stereos and seat options. I was after a pretty Spartan one, even considered removing the radio if the one I bought had it...

[Scuffers]

for the std 118 Hp std cars, biggest changes (that have already been mentioned) were all about mid 1998, disks/rear clam (including boot)/steel uprights/Boot lid

this little lot adds up to ~20-25kg's, the rest is in changes to wheels (AWI for Rimstock), trim levels (seats are pretty heavy) etc.

combine this with the official weights being more a guide than gospel...

[Fantuzzi]

Scuffers said:

for the std 118 Hp std cars, biggest changes (that have already been mentioned) were all about mid 1998, disks/rear clam (including boot)/steel uprights/Boot lid

this little lot adds up to ~20-25kg's, the rest is in changes to wheels (AWI for Rimstock), trim levels (seats are pretty heavy) etc.

combine this with the official weights being more a guide than gospel...

Oh ok, thanks! This thread has been great.

So are the early cars the ones to go after, or do the changes have no impact on the drive?

I'm in no rush to buy (aka don't have the cash yet...) so would rather keep an eye out for the 'right' spec, seen as I have a 'light is right' attitude!

Is it just the 111s 'padded' seats that are the heavier option?

Thanks

[banx22]

This is just my opinion but the later into the range, the more factory fixes have been applied by Lotus as they have discovered areas that need looking at. There is a sleight weight difference between the various S1 models but I wouldn't worry about it as you wont notice it.

I think there are 6 different models:

• Standard S1 (118bhp)
• 111s (different wheels, seat, engine, gearbox, clam)
• Type 49 (essentially a 111s)
• Type 72 (as above)
• S135 (not sure whats in this one)
• S160 (VHPD engine)

They are all fantastic (in my opinion) and you can't go wrong really. Go drive a few different models if you can and see which one you like the most.

[thegreenhell]

Fantuzzi said:

Is it just the 111s 'padded' seats that are the heavier option?

Thanks

The weight difference is so miniscule that no sane person would choose between the two on that basis. It's the same GRP seat shell bolted to the chassis with the same steel frame and runners. The only difference is an extra half inch of foam on the 111S seats. Maybe a few grams at most.

Far more important to the driving experience are the differences in comfort and driving position between the two. I've driven over sixty thousand miles in the standard seats, and they are comfortable enough for me 99% of the time, but on longer journeys some numbness could start to creep in. The 111S and later Probax seats are definitely that little bit more comfortable to sit on, but the downside to the extra padding is that you also sit half an inch higher in the car.

You also need to consider whether or not you'll want to fit harnesses in the car. If you're of average height then it's near impossible to safely use harnesses with any of the standard seats.

[Fantuzzi]

thegreenhell said:

Fantuzzi said:

Is it just the 111s 'padded' seats that are the heavier option?

Thanks

The weight difference is so miniscule that no sane person would choose between the two on that basis. It's the same GRP seat shell bolted to the chassis with the same steel frame and runners. The only difference is an extra half inch of foam on the 111S seats. Maybe a few grams at most.

Far more important to the driving experience are the differences in comfort and driving position between the two. I've driven over sixty thousand miles in the standard seats, and they are comfortable enough for me 99% of the time, but on longer journeys some numbness could start to creep in. The 111S and later Probax seats are definitely that little bit more comfortable to sit on, but the downside to the extra padding is that you also sit half an inch higher in the car.

You also need to consider whether or not you'll want to fit harnesses in the car. If you're of average height then it's near impossible to safely use harnesses with any of the standard seats.

Yeah it seems a bit mad talking about a bit of foam! But I wasn't sure if it was an entirely new seat design so was heavier because of that, rather than just extra padding in the standard seat, thanks for clearing that up for me.

I was looking for a standard 118 s1, but would love a 135, yet due to the low numbers made was just planning to get the 135 lotus upgrades - I know they did it as an option when the 135 was first out, so I'm assuming a lotus specialist could still do one?

Thanks once again for all the help.

[DCor]

I was in the same position as yourself 9 years ago - I wanted an S1 very badly but a bit unsure of exactly what I should be looking at. From all the reviews I'd read I was pretty sure that an S135 was what I needed but that was a very rare and expensive option. I was extremely lucky to find a 2000 model S1 that had had the Lotus 135 kit added, along with a Lotue sports exhaust, in 2001. The deal was done (August 2005) and I haven't looked back. I'm driving it this week and I can honestly say that I'm as happy with it now as the day I collected it !
From my experience the 135 kit does make a difference to the driving experience - the whole car just feels that bit more alive with a good spread of power right across the rev range. There haven't been too many occasions that I've felt it lacking, even out driving with some (on paper) much higher league machinery! The engine note on mine also adds to the experience, there's a real growl/whine off it as it accelerates hard that has a lot of people asking if it's super-chardged !!
My advice is to try driving as many different variants you can - and when the right car comes along jump at it !!!

[Thorburn]

banx22 said:

• Standard S1 (118bhp)
• 111s (different wheels, seat, engine, gearbox, clam) - VVC engine, 143bhp. Close ratio gearbox.
• Type 49 (essentially a 111s) - Just a special edition, could be either the base or 111S spec.
• Type 72 (as above) - No Type 72 edition S1. They did a Hertitage edition also known as the Type 79 and as above could be either base or 111S spec.
• S135 (not sure whats in this one) - Base model with modified cylinder head and close ratio gearbox.
• S160 (VHPD engine) - Doesn't have the VHPD engine (it was an optional extra to make the Sport 190 I believe). Sport 160's have the standard 118bhp engine and long ratio gearbox together with a modified cylinder head, different cams and a different ECU (which also differs between the initial 50 SVA cars and later WVTA cars). Makes about 150-160bhp. As standard is very temperamental at low revs, to the extent that Lotus did a 'driveability' upgrade kit for it...

A few notes above as these details weren't correct...

If you want to look up what is in a specific model then the Elises.co.uk page here is an excellent reference: http://www.elises.co.uk/models/index.php
Many cars have been modified from standard though, and often people would make tweaks or changes when ordering, so don't go in expecting everything to match what they SHOULD have had from the factory according to that.

Edited by Thorburn on Thursday 19th June 14:18

[banx22]

Well you learn something new every day. Thanks for the clarification Thorburn. I remember when I started looking into buying my Elise; I thought there was only one model, the base Elise, then I started looking

The day I picked it up I was bouncing around like a child on christmas day