Elise mx5 or z4
Discussion
Hey new here and would really appreciate some advice.
I'm looking at getting anew car.
Looking for some open top fun in a car that will put some fun back into my driving.
Budget is up to £25k
Current interest list is as follows,
- mx5 sport tech (I can get a good deal on a new car)
- BMW z4 2.0i (can get a year old low mileage car)
- lotus Elise S super touring 1.8 (5 year old very low mileage ) includes aircon and hardtop
I'm open to suggestions on other cars.
Right this is where it gets interesting I guess :-/
I drove the mx5 a couple of months ago - and loved it.
Then this weekend I went to drive the z4, it felt like driving a 3 or 5 series . Great quality, comfy etc.
Straight afterwards I decided to go drive another mx5 to make a better comparison.
At the dealer they only had a 2 year old car (36k miles), so when they finally got it started (flat battery) we set off in the rain.
Off a bypass onto a sweeping slip road the car swapped ends and ended up in the ditch!
Clearly my fault, maybe a lack of rear wheel sports car experience.
However I'm sure the mismatched rear tyres (one with low tread, 3 different tyre brands on the car) didn't help.
The car gave no warning of letting go and it didn't feel like I was going too fast (obviously for this car I was).
My requirements from the car are as fun daily driver. and every couple of weeks i'll be heading south on the motorway 320miles each way.
I live near Glasgow and head north through the twisty b-roads often (to climb the munros ).
I love the mx5 but the way it spun out has shook my confidence in the car/own ability a fair bit.
The BMW felt sold but a bit boring.
Not driven the Lotus people say it works as an everyday car but I guess I'm concerned about the perceived kitcar quality and parking it outside overnight.
I'm hoping to buy next week but I'm changing my mind almost hourly.
Any advice, opinions or suggestions please?
I'm looking at getting anew car.
Looking for some open top fun in a car that will put some fun back into my driving.
Budget is up to £25k
Current interest list is as follows,
- mx5 sport tech (I can get a good deal on a new car)
- BMW z4 2.0i (can get a year old low mileage car)
- lotus Elise S super touring 1.8 (5 year old very low mileage ) includes aircon and hardtop
I'm open to suggestions on other cars.
Right this is where it gets interesting I guess :-/
I drove the mx5 a couple of months ago - and loved it.
Then this weekend I went to drive the z4, it felt like driving a 3 or 5 series . Great quality, comfy etc.
Straight afterwards I decided to go drive another mx5 to make a better comparison.
At the dealer they only had a 2 year old car (36k miles), so when they finally got it started (flat battery) we set off in the rain.
Off a bypass onto a sweeping slip road the car swapped ends and ended up in the ditch!
Clearly my fault, maybe a lack of rear wheel sports car experience.
However I'm sure the mismatched rear tyres (one with low tread, 3 different tyre brands on the car) didn't help.
The car gave no warning of letting go and it didn't feel like I was going too fast (obviously for this car I was).
My requirements from the car are as fun daily driver. and every couple of weeks i'll be heading south on the motorway 320miles each way.
I live near Glasgow and head north through the twisty b-roads often (to climb the munros ).
I love the mx5 but the way it spun out has shook my confidence in the car/own ability a fair bit.
The BMW felt sold but a bit boring.
Not driven the Lotus people say it works as an everyday car but I guess I'm concerned about the perceived kitcar quality and parking it outside overnight.
I'm hoping to buy next week but I'm changing my mind almost hourly.
Any advice, opinions or suggestions please?
Im relatively new to rwd having just bought a 05 Elise 111r. I drove a 370z and almost found a ditch (traction control saved it) and it did shake my confidence but after driving the Elise I have it back. The 370 had lots of torque so that was probably why it spun up. There is so much more grip and feel in the Elise im slowly getting used to it. My only concern would be leaving an Elise outside but it's a soft top like the others so as long as the roof is treated it should be fine. Best thing to do is have a go in one.
BirdyNumNums said:
I read conflicting reports
How's it the Elise on a long motorway journey?
A few things I'd say are worthy of note:How's it the Elise on a long motorway journey?
- It's noisy. Even in the later cars with more sound deadening you'd probably want to wear ear-plugs or noise cancelling headphones for long motorway trips.
- The low seating position makes you feel rather vulnerable (your head is at wheel-nut height to an artic). In the wet it also means you're looking through denser spray than you would be in a taller car.
- The steering is rather hyperactive - the constant bombardment with information that's the car's greatest strength on a B-road actually makes motorway driving more draining than it otherwise would be.
- The ride at motorway speed is actually very good and the seats and driving position are very comfortable.
- On REALLY wet (as in flooded) motorways, the combination of wide(ish) rear tyres and little weight means they tend to aquaplane, which is frankly terrifying.
- People have slightly more tendency not to see you than in a bigger car so you have to be fairly alert.
It copes reasonably enough with long trips, but if you're spending a lot of time on motorways, it's not really the right car for the job. You'd be better off with something like a Bosxter or MX5.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 7th January 19:39
+1 Agree with Kambites. The only thing I would add is picking up on your point about being parked up outside. Even with a hardtop, and depending on luck of the draw, direction of rain, strength of wind etc etc, they are known to leak a bit. It's particularly a problem in the winter when it's not uncommon for the inside of the windows to be as frozen as the outside. You can get the windows adjusted to help a bit, but the issue is unlikely to go away altogether.
If you're willing to live with an Elise's compromises however, you will be rewarded during warmer months when you get off motorway onto the B roads.
If you're willing to live with an Elise's compromises however, you will be rewarded during warmer months when you get off motorway onto the B roads.
To give a counter point, mine does nt leak at all either with soft or hard top on. The one exception is the boot gets a bit damp when parked pointing up a step hill.
I find them fine on the motorway, with the exception of the standing water thing. Noiser than a normal car, but not unbearable.
I'd find the demisting thing, and clambering in and out in tight car parking spots more of an issue.
I find them fine on the motorway, with the exception of the standing water thing. Noiser than a normal car, but not unbearable.
I'd find the demisting thing, and clambering in and out in tight car parking spots more of an issue.
You do need to exercise some degree of caution with a RWD car if the roads are slippery, but unless you were aggressive with the throttle it shouldn't have given no warning. Low tread and mismatched tyres is bad as are old tyres - they can go a bit hard with age, so even tyres with loads of tread can be a bit dangerous in cold/damp conditions - so I suspect the tyres were a big factor.
I'd say compared to an mx-5 you'd need to be more careful with an Elise both about tyres and your right foot in slippery conditions with it being mid-engined and the weight distribution being towards the back.
I had a Mk1 MX-5 prior to having an S1 Elise. Earlier models of both the cars you're considering, so maybe not a useful comparison, but I'd say out of the options you've listed you'd likely find the Elise the most engaging and rewarding, especially in the summer. It will always feel a bit special to drive in a way the other two won't. It's whether you can live with the compromises. I wore earplugs in my elise on journeys of 45 minutes or more (the exhaust and induction kit were a little loud which didn't help, but road noise/wind noise is reasonably high at motorway speeds) - I found it ok on motorway trips and did do a small number of 270 mile trips in it, but it will be a more wearing drive than in the other two cars. You can get "shower cap" covers for the Elise which just go over the roof/windows rather than being full car covers and are really quick and easy to put on and stow.
I'd say compared to an mx-5 you'd need to be more careful with an Elise both about tyres and your right foot in slippery conditions with it being mid-engined and the weight distribution being towards the back.
I had a Mk1 MX-5 prior to having an S1 Elise. Earlier models of both the cars you're considering, so maybe not a useful comparison, but I'd say out of the options you've listed you'd likely find the Elise the most engaging and rewarding, especially in the summer. It will always feel a bit special to drive in a way the other two won't. It's whether you can live with the compromises. I wore earplugs in my elise on journeys of 45 minutes or more (the exhaust and induction kit were a little loud which didn't help, but road noise/wind noise is reasonably high at motorway speeds) - I found it ok on motorway trips and did do a small number of 270 mile trips in it, but it will be a more wearing drive than in the other two cars. You can get "shower cap" covers for the Elise which just go over the roof/windows rather than being full car covers and are really quick and easy to put on and stow.
For 5 years my daily drivers were an S1 Elise and a mk1 MX5. Both live outside and were equal in terms of misting up and leaking (ie lots of misting up but no leaks in either). I've still got the Elise and a caravan dehumidifier stops it misting. AC would help a lot with demisting.
While the S1 Elise is noisy and benefits from ear plugs on long trips I drove a new 1.6 Elise last year and at 70mph it was very quiet inside, not noticably louder than Mrs muppet's Civic. I've no idea at what point the sound deadening became so effective.
While the S1 Elise is noisy and benefits from ear plugs on long trips I drove a new 1.6 Elise last year and at 70mph it was very quiet inside, not noticably louder than Mrs muppet's Civic. I've no idea at what point the sound deadening became so effective.
Captain Muppet said:
I've still got the Elise and a caravan dehumidifier stops it misting.
Sorry to digress slightly (still somewhat related), but can I please pick your brains on this. What type, what model, where does it sit etc etc. Reason for asking is I live in fear of sudden downpours when driving causing the interior to instantly and completely mist up.SeanyD said:
Captain Muppet said:
I've still got the Elise and a caravan dehumidifier stops it misting.
Sorry to digress slightly (still somewhat related), but can I please pick your brains on this. What type, what model, where does it sit etc etc. Reason for asking is I live in fear of sudden downpours when driving causing the interior to instantly and completely mist up.They are usually about 200mm long and I leave one on the dash over night with the dash vents closed. It's always clear in the morning, even when the Civic and BMW are misted up inside. The tricky bit is not opening the vents until the heater is blowing warm air or it'll mist up instantly, fortunately the K series is an excellent water heater so I've got warm air after about a mile.
I've never had it suddenly mist up if it rains when I'm driving, sudden misting only seems to happen from start up with a cold windscreen.
I seem to be fortunate in that my S1 doesn't leak. A car that is always damp inside will be much harder to keep demisted (like my T-bar MR2).
sato said:
To give a counter point, mine does nt leak at all either with soft or hard top on. The one exception is the boot gets a bit damp when parked pointing up a step hill.
Mine has never leaked either, but it still gets damp inside and mists up if I leave it outside for a long period of time. I can agree with all of the above. I ran an Elise as a daily driver for three years (I owned it for 8) and it lived outside. As far as living outside goes, I had some peeling issues with the paintwork after a harsh winter (Lotus refused my warranty claim and the repair quotes were between £1500 and £2500), and despite the soft and hard tops being watertight, the windscreen did mist up very badly needing several minutes to clear it on some mornings (and I went for an air-con model to make this easier).
The Elise is magical on a B road, but motorways are quite tiring because of the noise. My S2 111S had a very high throttle pedal relative to the clutch and brake, which was uncomfortable on long trips, but the DBW throttle solved this issue in 2004/2005, so it's just the noise is your budget is £25k. It's not too bad and will probably seem ok on the test drive, but if you do a lot of motorway it will start to wear you out, unless like Kambites suggests you use noise cancelling headphones or earplugs (I've just got a pair of in-ear Bose NC headphones and they're great), so basically you need to be committed.
Regarding the spin in the MX5, they're normally very docile and well balanced, and RWD road cars shouldn't require experience to drive safely. The mis-matched tyres will make a much bigger difference on a delicately balanced sports car - I'd put it down to that and get another test drive from another garage (surely your budget of £25k will get you into a new one or nearly new and save a good wedge?).
The current Z4 is the same weight and size as the 3 series, so it's no surprise you found that it drove similarly.
Have you considered a Boxster?
The Elise is magical on a B road, but motorways are quite tiring because of the noise. My S2 111S had a very high throttle pedal relative to the clutch and brake, which was uncomfortable on long trips, but the DBW throttle solved this issue in 2004/2005, so it's just the noise is your budget is £25k. It's not too bad and will probably seem ok on the test drive, but if you do a lot of motorway it will start to wear you out, unless like Kambites suggests you use noise cancelling headphones or earplugs (I've just got a pair of in-ear Bose NC headphones and they're great), so basically you need to be committed.
Regarding the spin in the MX5, they're normally very docile and well balanced, and RWD road cars shouldn't require experience to drive safely. The mis-matched tyres will make a much bigger difference on a delicately balanced sports car - I'd put it down to that and get another test drive from another garage (surely your budget of £25k will get you into a new one or nearly new and save a good wedge?).
The current Z4 is the same weight and size as the 3 series, so it's no surprise you found that it drove similarly.
Have you considered a Boxster?
I've run a very loud sport 160 as a daily on and off for years and often leave it on the streets of Glasgow if I'm up there for the night with no issues. Obviously this depends on where you stay/will keep it.
The 160 is about as difficult to live with an an elise gets and I find it bearable. The newer Totoya S2 is a far better car in everyday use and has much better build quality, I had one for a month and a half.
As you're intending to head north in it regularly, from the 3 cars this factor alone would put the elise over the other 2 for me. There are few cars I'd rather be in for the blast up the A82 and beyond and none of them are near the elise in price.
The 160 is about as difficult to live with an an elise gets and I find it bearable. The newer Totoya S2 is a far better car in everyday use and has much better build quality, I had one for a month and a half.
As you're intending to head north in it regularly, from the 3 cars this factor alone would put the elise over the other 2 for me. There are few cars I'd rather be in for the blast up the A82 and beyond and none of them are near the elise in price.
I see lots of posts like this and my take is slightly different.
If you are worried about this sort of thing - then I don't think an Elise is the right car for you. The fact that you're asking the question almost answers itself...
Personally I think its fine on long motorways but then I came from a 1979 911 SC with no heating and a gear box that was so woeful I would try and stay in gear to avoid having to shift.
But even when I got it if I thought I would be doing lots of long motorway journeys - its not a car I would have plumped for.
The fact remains - its loud and its low (no matter which variation)... motorway comfortable cruiser its not.
I think you may find that even a Z4 and MX5 on such journeys are not ideal either.
Edited to add: thats not to say some people do not mind using it as an everyday driver and/or for motorway journeys ... but I bet it was not on their list of concerns before they even looked at/ drove one!
If you are worried about this sort of thing - then I don't think an Elise is the right car for you. The fact that you're asking the question almost answers itself...
Personally I think its fine on long motorways but then I came from a 1979 911 SC with no heating and a gear box that was so woeful I would try and stay in gear to avoid having to shift.
But even when I got it if I thought I would be doing lots of long motorway journeys - its not a car I would have plumped for.
The fact remains - its loud and its low (no matter which variation)... motorway comfortable cruiser its not.
I think you may find that even a Z4 and MX5 on such journeys are not ideal either.
Edited to add: thats not to say some people do not mind using it as an everyday driver and/or for motorway journeys ... but I bet it was not on their list of concerns before they even looked at/ drove one!
BirdyNumNums said:
I read conflicting reports
How's it the Elise on a long motorway journey?
How's it the Elise on a long motorway journey?
Rakoosh said:
I see lots of posts like this and my take is slightly different.
If you are worried about this sort of thing - then I don't think an Elise is the right car for you. The fact that you're asking the question almost answers itself...
Personally I think its fine on long motorways but then I came from a 1979 911 SC with no heating and a gear box that was so woeful I would try and stay in gear to avoid having to shift.
But even when I got it if I thought I would be doing lots of long motorway journeys - its not a car I would have plumped for.
The fact remains - its loud and its low (no matter which variation)... motorway comfortable cruiser its not.
I think you may find that even a Z4 and MX5 on such journeys are not ideal either.
Edited to add: thats not to say some people do not mind using it as an everyday driver and/or for motorway journeys ... but I bet it was not on their list of concerns before they even looked at/ drove one!
It was on my list of concerns, and I owned my Elise for 8 years, 3 of which as an only car. I loved the Elise dearly, it was and still is one of the best daily drivers I've ever driven. The motorway NVH was what relegated it to a second car though.If you are worried about this sort of thing - then I don't think an Elise is the right car for you. The fact that you're asking the question almost answers itself...
Personally I think its fine on long motorways but then I came from a 1979 911 SC with no heating and a gear box that was so woeful I would try and stay in gear to avoid having to shift.
But even when I got it if I thought I would be doing lots of long motorway journeys - its not a car I would have plumped for.
The fact remains - its loud and its low (no matter which variation)... motorway comfortable cruiser its not.
I think you may find that even a Z4 and MX5 on such journeys are not ideal either.
Edited to add: thats not to say some people do not mind using it as an everyday driver and/or for motorway journeys ... but I bet it was not on their list of concerns before they even looked at/ drove one!
BirdyNumNums said:
I read conflicting reports
How's it the Elise on a long motorway journey?
How's it the Elise on a long motorway journey?
Fair enough I stand corrected.
I have to confess of being a bit more of a prima donna I guess.
I loathe motorway driving - but if I was choosing a car and I knew I would be subjected to it then I would choose the most comfortable, quiet car I could !
I have to confess of being a bit more of a prima donna I guess.
I loathe motorway driving - but if I was choosing a car and I knew I would be subjected to it then I would choose the most comfortable, quiet car I could !
RobM77 said:
It was on my list of concerns, and I owned my Elise for 8 years, 3 of which as an only car. I loved the Elise dearly, it was and still is one of the best daily drivers I've ever driven. The motorway NVH was what relegated it to a second car though.
Much of it is contextual I think. I took my Elise to the ring twice and on a number of long distance road trips and for that sort of thing it was great. However, on mundane day to day motorway trips I'd rather be in something quieter so I can relax and listen to music (that's another thing: because of the noise in the Elise I found I was rather limited on music choice too).
It's about weighing up the driving you do I guess. When my Elise was my daily driver my commute was 15 miles of B road that resembled a mini Nurburgring, which was awesome twice a day; whereas now I either commute by train or to our other work site along the M3/M25, and the Elise wouldn't be much fun for that, which is why it became a second car and I bought a quiet but tidy handling daily driver as well. The other consideration is your hobbies - since I got a bigger daily driver as well I've taken up hobbies that need a bigger car (cello, kayaks, guitars, bikes, boards etc), so the Elise stayed as a second car for those reasons too.
If you don't need to carry stuff and want a fun to drive sports car, I'd buy the Elise if you can tolerate the noise etc, or if not I'd consider a Boxster/Cayman/Z4M if your budget stretches that far. The MX5 has great handling, but personally I always found that they felt too slow for some reason (too capable for the engine perhaps?), and preferred the mk3 MR2, which despite having similar performance feels much more lively.
It's about weighing up the driving you do I guess. When my Elise was my daily driver my commute was 15 miles of B road that resembled a mini Nurburgring, which was awesome twice a day; whereas now I either commute by train or to our other work site along the M3/M25, and the Elise wouldn't be much fun for that, which is why it became a second car and I bought a quiet but tidy handling daily driver as well. The other consideration is your hobbies - since I got a bigger daily driver as well I've taken up hobbies that need a bigger car (cello, kayaks, guitars, bikes, boards etc), so the Elise stayed as a second car for those reasons too.
If you don't need to carry stuff and want a fun to drive sports car, I'd buy the Elise if you can tolerate the noise etc, or if not I'd consider a Boxster/Cayman/Z4M if your budget stretches that far. The MX5 has great handling, but personally I always found that they felt too slow for some reason (too capable for the engine perhaps?), and preferred the mk3 MR2, which despite having similar performance feels much more lively.
Up to about 60mph the noise in the cabin is fine, at motorway cruising speeds it can become obnoxious after a while. You would be better of with an Evora if you want a Lotus but I believe that is slightly out of the price range. I hate to say it but the car you're describing (Fun, convertible, daily driver) is a Boxster. I'd try and find a recent 2.9 one for your money.
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