Europa S/SE Wise buy ??

[geoffphead]

I am looking for a fast road car that i can track maybe twice a year, been down the M3 vert route (disaster!!) Got money back luckily.
I have a TVR TuscanS mk11 for weekend fun .
i expect fuel is around the 23/25 mpg real world? Is there any boot space in front?
I am looking to do maybe 10k miles a year, will a Europa be a practical option?.
Would value you Lotus guys pros and cons please.Also advice on which dealers or where to find a decent one?
thanks in advance

[Mr_C]

You should get more than 25mpg I'd have thought. There's no space under the front but the boot is quite big.

They're quite rare, you could speak to WillB on SELOC about sourcing you one

[Skaffen]

geoffphead said:

I am looking for a fast road car that i can track maybe twice a year, been down the M3 vert route (disaster!!) Got money back luckily.
I have a TVR TuscanS mk11 for weekend fun .
i expect fuel is around the 23/25 mpg real world? Is there any boot space in front?
I am looking to do maybe 10k miles a year, will a Europa be a practical option?.
Would value you Lotus guys pros and cons please.Also advice on which dealers or where to find a decent one?
thanks in advance

I'd say fuel is actually more around 32-34 mpg real world - perhaps a bit lower if you're driving harder, higher on long cruising journeys (some people have seen 35-37mpg on long motorway trips).

They're very similar to an S2 Elise in terms of interior and car layout as it's kind of the same platform. So there's no storage space at the front - it's the radiator (and air con), ABS module, and a few other bits. There is a boot to the rear of the engine and it's small compared to a lot of other cars but it is bigger than you get in an Elise and not bad considering. There is a tiny amount of storage space behind the seats (a small net) but you have to slide the drivers seat forward to get to it.

A number of owners happily use them for commuting. It's the 2 litre vauxhall turbo engine (Z20LER in the Europa) so it's pretty robust and has the M32 gearbox to give 6 gears. The torque from the turbo and the 6th gear means it's pretty relaxed on the motorway. It's relatively quiet in the cabin compared to an Elise or an Exige (it has full carpets plus that 6th gear) so you can hold a conversation without shouting, but compared to a lot other cars it's probably a little bit rattly/creaky/wind noisy - I personally don't like to be too insulated from the outside world though in a sports car! The probax seats are firm but really comfortable and the seating position is really comfortable too. The interior is snug and not particularly luxurious and getting in and out requires a bit of agility due to the wide sills and low seating position (it's like getting in and out of an S2 Elise but with a slightly higher roof to give a slightly taller opening).

It feels like a Lotus to drive, which is the main plus . The standard front tyres are a little on the narrow side compared to the rear and combined with the standard geo that biases it towards understeer (like with the S2 Elise in standard form) but you can fit wider front tyres (which helps with having more tyre choice too) and have a geo done.

A few owners track them. The previous owner of mine did a number of track days in it and said it was fantastic (he also did a few upgrades to benefit it on track - but in standard form it's still fun).

They seem to be holding their value - they can be a little slow to sell on because they're not so well known and a fairly niche car but they're also rare (only 115 register in the UK) and a patient owner is likely to be able to sell it on for a similar price. You're unlikely to be able to buy an SE - there's only 4 registered in the UK at the moment. There's actually a fair bit of choice in the classifieds at the moment relatively speaking!

The main things that vary in the S are whether it's had the Lotus factory 225 ECU retrofitted (standard ECU is 200BHP), whether it's had a full aftermarket exhaust system (which removes the pre-cat and flows better - Milltek is a great and common option that's fitted) and whether it has the LUX pack (more leather inside and different grille colour - although some cars, like mine, have some of the upgraded interior without the full LUX pack).

I'd say they're a good buy, but as an owner I might be biased . Feel free to drop me a private message if you've got any questions!

Edited by Skaffen on Monday 25th November 10:32

[BibsTLF]

Stratton Motor Company have a nice low mileage Europa for sale currently.

[Skaffen]

BibsTLF said:

Stratton Motor Company have a nice low mileage Europa for sale currently.

I'm guessing that's a "Canyon Red" one - it's a hard colour to photograph well and usually doesn't come out well in photos (I don't think the dealer's photos do it justice), but I think it's a colour that looks fantastic in person.

The light metallic blue one in Berkshire (local to me) looks like it could be a bit of a bargain - as it's been serviced/maintained by Hofmann's it should have been very well looked after. Perhaps a bit of a marmite colour, but I think the black wheels work well on it.

[bencollins]

no but seriously lots of threads on this if you search

[Shabs]

Most important mod is the exhaust (go Chris Tullett) and ECU, makes a big difference to performance and character while remaining suitable for track work. I also had Nitrons, TD Wheels and R-1R tyres - I would recommend going for the wider rear wheels and 17 inch fronts (I went wider rears that I love but only 16 inch fronts that I would change were I keeping the car, which is sadly now for sale)

[geoffphead]

thanks guys most helpful, and yes i did try the searches but they are crap!!!
we have a sticky on top in tvr section for such questions.I am going to look at a few this weekend.
I wanted current drivers opinions and apart from finding a couple grand more than id budgeted for, I am happy.
The car looks great. I wanted pin sharp handling, reasonably quick with low depreciation.
Now i have convince her indoors that its a car she will enjoy, she will not drive my Tuscan S.I promised her that my second car would be sensible lol .

[Skaffen]

Hopefully it should deliver on the pin sharp handling and be reasonably quick - it may depend a bit on what the owner has done in terms of tyre choice (esp at the front) and geo. What does her indoors not like about the Tuscan S?

I see you've found the Facebook group - that's the best place for Europa S knowledge

Oh - one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post - the fuel tank is a bit on the small side so although the fuel economy isn't hideous you'd typically manage about 220-240 miles before wanting to fill up.

Things to look out for when looking at Europas which came to mind:
Ask if the aircon works - in common with S2 Elises and S2 Exiges the pipes that run through the sill can be an issue and it's not the cheapest thing to fix.
You'll probably find there's a flat spot in the rev range - totally normal and they all have it to varying degrees I think, but some are worse than others (it may depend on the ECU upgrade and exhaust upgrade in part to the degree).
If the sill covers aren't leather covered (standard ones aren't - lux pack ones are) they may be cracked - that's fairly common as they're not really up to having weight put on them lots getting in and out of the car but people often do.
A lot of Europas have a very occasional "cattle grid" rumble when lifting off the power - a sort of resonant vibration (touching the accelerator briefly stops it as does the revs continuing to drop). It's a bit of a case of "They All Do That, Sir" - swapping one of the engine tie strap for a slightly longer one can improve it and some cars have had this done.

[V8 FOU]

Best features of these are the rarity and the fact that is doesn't have a K series.

[3VOM]

Not really. Having gone from newish Europa to old S1. I have been very impressed with the K so far. The GM engine makes the Europa a character-full, compromised yet rewarding drive when mastered. The K has a natural feel in the elise. And has had me wondering if it hasnt been fettled with in some way. As going from 225bhp to 120bhp has not been an issue. If the K can hold out on HGF once in every 4 years then it will be cheaper than a cambelt change in a Europa. As with any Lotus just get one thats been looked after. There are some dogs out there.

[3VOM]

Oh and MPG wise you should get just short of of 40mpg in the Europa. Put your foot down and it drops of massively though. In comparison my elise gets 40mpg all the time no matter if I drive like a saint or a ttt.

[Skaffen]

I went the other way - S1 111S (VVC K) to Europa S.

I also don't think the K was so bad - I did love the rev happy character of the VVC K (it just pulled right the way up to the rev limiter) and if you set aside the HGF risks (which my Elise never suffered in its 56k miles) with its light weight the K seemed a good match for the S1. Shame the cooling system wasn't plumbed slightly better.

Nothing wrong with the Z20LER in the Europa of course - not sure I've quite mastered it yet, mind you - all my previous cars have been rev happy N/A engines .

[3VOM]

Edited by 3VOM on Wednesday 4th December 11:53

[3VOM]

The cool thing with the Europa was being able to accelerate quickly without using hardly any revs. I think it must have given the impression of being an effortlessly quick car. In comparison to most cars that need screaming revs to drive quickly. They are different cars that share the most important characteristics. Somehow I the GM engine suits the Europas understated look and the K fits well with the toy like Elise.

[sam919]

I have been hankering after a Europa, mainly due to them being a little different. I have a 996 at the moment, but feeling a little bit like im followoing the pack, my hearts begining to rule my wallet these days and with other racing projects on the go i want something like to like price wise so i can change without any real differences.

Ive had nice handling cars previously and an Elan plus 2, Caterhams etc, but need something along the lines of the 996 to go for little blasts here and there. The 996 does this well and is refined, but for what i use it for 25% with passenger 75% on my own, i require a little involvment, feel, sensation.

Some good info here, and i have already sent a few email, busy offshore at the moment so cant really do much more, we'll see when i get home.

[Wootan]

I went from an s1 elise to a Europa S, biggest mistake I ever made. Once the novelty of the extra straight line speed wore off I was very disappointed. The understeer was annoying the brakes were average and the engine mapping was terrible. They're not much more practical than an elise/exige I would definitely try all of them before buying. I know alot of the issues can be sorted with tyres, geo, exhausts and mapping etc but its not cheap and you should go in with your eyes open. The rarity aspect is true but consider lotus making them in limited numbers is very different to them just not selling.

[Wootan]

I went from an s1 elise to a Europa S, biggest mistake I ever made. Once the novelty of the extra straight line speed wore off I was very disappointed. The understeer was annoying the brakes were average and the engine mapping was terrible. They're not much more practical than an elise/exige I would definitely try all of them before buying. I know alot of the issues can be sorted with tyres, geo, exhausts and mapping etc but its not cheap and you should go in with your eyes open. The rarity aspect is true but consider lotus making them in limited numbers is very different to them just not selling.

[Skaffen]

Wootan said:

I went from an s1 elise to a Europa S, biggest mistake I ever made. Once the novelty of the extra straight line speed wore off I was very disappointed. The understeer was annoying the brakes were average and the engine mapping was terrible. They're not much more practical than an elise/exige I would definitely try all of them before buying. I know alot of the issues can be sorted with tyres, geo, exhausts and mapping etc but its not cheap and you should go in with your eyes open. The rarity aspect is true but consider lotus making them in limited numbers is very different to them just not selling.

As you say - understeer can be sorted (and it will depend on tyres and what the existing geometry is like as to how understeery it is straight off). The brakes shouldn't be too bad (although the stock ABS has its quirks), although as will all Lotuses pads can make a fair difference. There's 225 vs standard ECU (quite a lot have the 225 factory upgrade). And quite a lot have the pre-cat removed and a free flowing exhaust (milltek is popular) which tends to help with the smoothing out the power delivery.

I think buying any Lotus you need to go in with your eyes open and it's worth being aware of a models quirks and common mods that owners do - prior to my Europa S I had an S1 111S and when buying that I'd gathered it was an idea to favour one with S2 suspension, different brake discs, s/s exhaust (the one I bought had that).

As an aside - was your S1 completely unmodified?

[sam919]

Fair points, ill have a poke about when i get back. Test drive and see what like. With refference to handling issues i freind of mine bought a elise S1 not sure of what model he's since modified it into a SC K20, i think it was 160hp before, Bell and Covil engine. We went to Cadwell for a track day in the middle of winter, and he didnt rate the handling at all, so when he had a bit of time he changed it and said it was a hell of a lot better. Im sure he complained of understeer as well but not 100%. Tweaking isnt too much of a drama if there has been some success before. I am conscious of a switch from German engineering to Lotus engineering, im not knocking this at all, as said ive always been a Lotus fan and quite look forward to a bit of fettling, its probably what i dont get with the 996. Mind you there's a fine line between 'charachter' and 'things getting on your t/ts' !