S1 111s dampers

[zebedee]

My original LSS dampers have (well one of them) finally packed in so:

1) I Should replace all 4 shouldn't I, rather than having different types of damper on each axle line?

2) What are the options and the costs and the pluses and minuses of what is available?

cheers

[kambites]

Unfortunately this is a very complicated, divisive, and above all personal, subject.

[zebedee]

OK, so give me your personal starter for 10 on the basis that:

1) I am open minded but;
2) I want the lower stance the LSS gave;
3) I was fine with the feel of the LSS as primary concern is feeling good on brisk b-road use
4) I am not into spending money for the sake of it

The only thing springing (sorry) to mind is Nitrons because that is what lots of people always used to talk about but I only had not even a passing interest back then.

[pthelazyjourno]

zebedee said:

OK, so give me your personal starter for 10 on the basis that:

1) I am open minded but;
2) I want the lower stance the LSS gave;
3) I was fine with the feel of the LSS as primary concern is feeling good on brisk b-road use
4) I am not into spending money for the sake of it

The only thing springing (sorry) to mind is Nitrons because that is what lots of people always used to talk about but I only had not even a passing interest back then.

You can get lowering brackets for regular Bilsteins from places like EliseParts - I doubt the LSS make the car any lower than mine is currently running at (tricky to distinguish the lip of the arch as it's black on black, but it's around an inch between tyre and arch):



I like the normal Bilsteins. The build quality may be lacking that of Nitrons, but I think they're a good compromise for the road - compliant, progressive, perfect for undulating b-roads.

[zebedee]

mine looks a similar stance to yours, but LSS is definitely lower than standard cars, which always surprise me how high they are! I wouldn't like to see it suddenly jacked up when it comes out of the garage.

So are Bilsteins what it would have sat on had the LSS not been spec'd (i.e. standard factory fit?)

[pthelazyjourno]

zebedee said:

mine looks a similar stance to yours, but LSS is definitely lower than standard cars, which always surprise me how high they are! I wouldn't like to see it suddenly jacked up when it comes out of the garage.

So are Bilsteins what it would have sat on had the LSS not been spec'd (i.e. standard factory fit?)

They are pretty high as standard. The later cars had an even higher ride height, some look absurd.

They were on konis originally from the factory, bilsteins were developed for the VX/S2.

[zebedee]

OK, so what I want is something that will see my car come out of the garage at the same ride height at the lowest cost without making the ride/handling worse than it was on the LSS.

So what do I need? (I have absolutely no idea but I know lots of people have strong opinions on the subject, so please help me out!)

cheers

[kambites]

I'd say the obvious options are S2 Bilsteins on lowering brackets; Quantum Zeros; and Nitron Street Series?

[djroadboy]

You need a set of Bilstein dampers from Eliseparts with a set of their lowering brackets. This will give you the ride height you want and the best damping for your needs. Simples!

Dan

[zebedee]

djroadboy said:

You need a set of Bilstein dampers from Eliseparts with a set of their lowering brackets. This will give you the ride height you want and the best damping for your needs. Simples!

Dan

So £700 inc VAT (although it says it only comes with the rear lowering brackets, which I am assuming is a typo and will double check). Question is whether the 15mm lowering bracket is as low as the LSS was, will have to do some research unless anyone knows?

[zebedee]

Another option that has come to light is Gaz shocks - anyone any experience of these? There is a garage in Lancashire that is a dealer in them and specialises in Lotii so that might be an option.

[banx22]

I've got Gaz Gold Pro's on my S1 111s.

They have been perfectly fine for my use (road only so far) and I've had them on the car for around 5 years. They are adjustable for rebound/bump (single knob adjuster) and for height.

I've had no problem with them in the entire time I've had them on the car.

Are they as good as Nitrons, etc?...... I don't know; I've never tried a Nitron/Quantum/Bilstein fitted car. Are they better than the 11 year old Koni's that they replaced? very much so.

In my opinion they are a good alternative to the typical S2 Bilstein damper upgrade route.

[wooooody]

I have the NSS on my 160 with EP lowering brackets to acheive the 160 ride height without comprimising the amount of droop available especially at the rear.

Having recently has a brief shot in a lowest-spec& softest sprung Quantum equipped K series S2 over roads I know very well, I'd opt for the Quantums if for some reason I'd to replace them again.

[RobM77]

As Kambites says in his first post, this is a topic that divides many of us. My own thinking is that most of us buy a Lotus for the legendary ride and handling that Lotus produce, and being in this camp myself I'd personally rather stick to suspension setups that came out of the factory as a signed off package (for a given car: springs, dampers, ride height, bushes, geo, wheel/tyre diam & wheel/tyre width - plus ARBs if applicable). LSS is obviously one of these packages, so for my own personal thinking I'd say that was fine if you set the geo accordingly and run every other parameter the same as a LSS car.

For example, the Elise and Exige have been deliberately designed so that the geo changes in a particular and desirable way with suspension deflection, so by lowering an Elise (as with any car) you're also altering the geo and theoretically it would need resetting, but it's not quite as simple as that because then you've got less wheel travel, potentially a different lateral g vs roll ratio and it all gets complicated (which is why Lotus are world leaders at this, it's a tricky thing to set a car up well). Personally I wouldn't mess, but that's just my opinion - as Kambites says, it's a matter of personal opinion and of course useage - if one's useage is purely on track, or course playing with the suspension is common because it's a controlled environment without many variables; most serious track drivers will play with setup at some stage; but if it's road use then that makes it a much more complex issue.

[zebedee]

RobM77 said:

As Kambites says in his first post, this is a topic that divides many of us. My own thinking is that most of us buy a Lotus for the legendary ride and handling that Lotus produce, and being in this camp myself I'd personally rather stick to suspension setups that came out of the factory as a signed off package (for a given car: springs, dampers, ride height, bushes, geo, wheel/tyre diam & wheel/tyre width - plus ARBs if applicable). LSS is obviously one of these packages, so for my own personal thinking I'd say that was fine if you set the geo accordingly and run every other parameter the same as a LSS car.

For example, the Elise and Exige have been deliberately designed so that the geo changes in a particular and desirable way with suspension deflection, so by lowering an Elise (as with any car) you're also altering the geo and theoretically it would need resetting, but it's not quite as simple as that because then you've got less wheel travel, potentially a different lateral g vs roll ratio and it all gets complicated (which is why Lotus are world leaders at this, it's a tricky thing to set a car up well). Personally I wouldn't mess, but that's just my opinion - as Kambites says, it's a matter of personal opinion and of course useage - if one's useage is purely on track, or course playing with the suspension is common because it's a controlled environment without many variables; most serious track drivers will play with setup at some stage; but if it's road use then that makes it a much more complex issue.

All very well in theory, but you can't get the LSS spec shocks anymore and one is knackered, so I need to replace them all. But presumably you would advocate going down the Eliseparts/Bilstein route then as a nearest to original?

[s111dpc]

I ran the S2 Bilsiens and lowering blocks on my S1 111S for over 3 years (until I sold it) and have to say it transformed the ride and handling compared to the stock set up. Unless you're looking to do a lot of track work I think the S2 package takes a lot of beating for road use.

[emss]

Hi,

I switched from LSS to Quantum Black 1 way and I'm pretty happy with the new setup (all bushes, ball joints and so on have been replaced). The car is tracked 3/4 times a year, so the geo has been set up accordingly but handling remains progressive on road.

Éric Masson

[The Bandit]

If I were you I'd get a decent second hand set of S2 Bilsteins (around £250, look in PH or SELOC classifieds) and some EP fitting brackets, job done.
Many people swap their Bilsteins for Nitrons/Gaz/Quantams when they buy the car so theres usually a few sets of low mileage s/h ones available.

[SidewaysSi]

As has been said, it is something asked a lot and unfortunately there is no right answer, merely opinion. I was in the same boat thus year and went the Nitron route.

My reasoning was, rightly or wrongly that it was not that much more than Bilsteins yet can be rebuilt. Furthermore, it gives the car a bit more focus I.e. a harder ride but with sharper handling. It was a bit of a jump into the unknown but I am extremely happy.

The car is certainly firm (450/525 springs) but very well damped. The trade off it that it really is so very sharp in corners. Roll free yet very predictable. It may lack the magic carpet ride of standard but it is no less comfortable than my Caterham.

[chris7676]

IMO driving an Elise on old used dampers is silly.
And considering changing just 1 or 2 is almost criminal.